[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by AmateurFool

If i hated Virginmedia to the level of intheknow there is no way on earth i would pay for their services, even when they do something right like adding setanta for free on xl, he complains, either he will never be satisfied with virginmedia no matter what they do (if so, why pay for it) or he has some hidden agenda (remember nojo999 or whatever it was).

and manages to get directly through to the times main news room, get a call back from a reporter and a story started and printed on the same day in the Times. With other more significant business stories filling the other pages

hmmmm helps to have a friend or too in the murdoch empire

[intheknow]

I wish !!

I emailed them, then spoke to the reporter 3 times over 2 days, I was told not to post back on the forum until the story was released.

I don't hate them, I want to like them, I keep wanting them to do something I will like and can come on here and say is good, but I can't say that.

I don't think they should be giving away setanta, it's costing a lot of money and the sports fans should pay if they want that package (I think), I'm not that bothered about it though I must say.

Less bothered than about the shaping, the loss of Sky, the lack of HD, the new support costs, the expensive call costs.

With the money they are losing from giving setanta away free they could reduce the call costs down to reasonable levels and attract the 60,000 + phone customers they lost back / replace them.

My arguments over the Virgin ads must make sense if the ASA are investigating, Trading standards are investigating and The Times cover the story with a broadband expert explaining the situation.

[plasma-screen]

[quote=intheknow;16473861]I wish !!



I don't hate them, I want to like them, I keep wanting them to do something I will like and can come on here and say is good, but I can't say that.

QUOTE]

please reflect on your comment here

they are a business and want YOUR money
you owe them nothing and they will not thank you

its just humans running a company to keep the owner happy!! and shareholders

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by intheknow

I wish !!

I emailed them, then spoke to the reporter 3 times over 2 days, I was told not to post back on the forum until the story was released.

I don't hate them, I want to like them, I keep wanting them to do something I will like and can come on here and say is good, but I can't say that.

I don't think they should be giving away setanta, it's costing a lot of money and the sports fans should pay if they want that package (I think), I'm not that bothered about it though I must say.

Less bothered than about the shaping, the loss of Sky, the lack of HD, the new support costs, the expensive call costs.

With the money they are losing from giving setanta away free they could reduce the call costs down to reasonable levels and attract the 60,000 + phone customers they lost back / replace them.

My arguments over the Virgin ads must make sense if the ASA are investigating, Trading standards are investigating and The Times cover the story with a broadband expert explaining the situation.

On the arguments just becuase they are investigating does not mean there is a case or a "conviction" on the way as the cash for honours proved today but as we said before lets park that until we get something definitive from either the ASA or Trading Standards

Then we can have a debate on their deliberations and points made whatever they are

On the setanta sports if the FT is beleived analysts reckon that the cost per customer is around £2.00 to £2.50

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/be4c09ee-36f...0779fd2ac.html

Which means they are making 5.50 on all 1.9m M and L customers whilst losing 2.50 on the 1.4m XL customers. I dont know what they were currently paying but I suspect a lot more than the 2.50 and maybe in setanta's rush for growth they have reduced their prices accordingly

for setanta Given that they sell direct on satellite and freeview and have a pub based deal with Sky it may come off for them or they could be the next ITV digital.

For VM this deal on paper only costs them current profit + £4m (1.4 * 2.5) less 11m (1.9 * 5.5) and they is greater benefits if this leads to a greater switch to XL TV which probably will be the case for existing subscribers. and potentially subscribers from freeview and maybe Sky in smaller numbers

On paper this looks like a good deal and it is hard to say that in relation to VM mangement just lately

On the phone I understand your point about call costs, 0845 numbers etc and package prices and I would hope they would be cheaper but for myself and probably a fair amount of others

I pay a package which is slightly more expensive than BT ( price comparsion would be good but for me personally no advantage as the discount I have agreed would be offset by the price reduction as I have already found out!)

I dont use 0845 numbers ( using sayno...) for any call and other calls have been included in my package.

Over the last year in terms of mobile and landline I have made a total cost for calls outside contract and free calls of about £8 ( and £6 of that was a microsoft 0870 call which allowed me to get microsoft office for a tenner which pays for itself)

I am not sure how much more savings I would get by them revisin prices and VM probably feels that revising prices would not affect subscribers or revenue significantly especially as the call market is probably the most competitive market out there.

Better to try and develop the BB with higher speeds, lower costs and hopefully less technical issues and reduced price and also to look to offer a real alternative to Sky for the majority of the country (how their off-net will fair I dont know as they maybe left it a little late as that market is quickly becoming competitive)

On a lighter note I would like to say that any offence earlier was not intended

I still beleive you are wrong on the Sky Basics issue and maybe have some valid points on some other issues but you make it hard to accept your points when they are so consistently pro-sky rather than appearing reasoned. What I will say is you're not nojo608 ( I think ) or pudpuller

Stressful times are currently here due to "good" domestic issues and maybe they got through

[intheknow]

I'm not nojo608 or pudpuller (I've had chats with him on PM) so I know he's not me!

The reason why setanta is 2.00 or 2.50, but Sky charge 5.00 is because they are only charging the people who want it, not all subscribers surely?

In any case are they not allowed to make a 50% profit on add on items like that? I should have thought that was ok since they need to use all of the other business services and network in supplying the content as well.

I really do wish for some positive changes at VM, I would benefit, I'd get a better TV, phone and broadband service..

The true test of your pro VM arguments and of the arguments we have had recently will be the outcome of the ASA investigation and the court case.

I wonder which user NOJO is now?!

[Swirly Media]

Originally Posted by intheknow

I'm not nojo608 or pudpuller (I've had chats with him on PM) so I know he's not me!

Were you unsure up until that point?

[intheknow]

I get accused of it so much, Cadire accused me of being another 'intheknow' from the internet who works for Sky, then I've been accused of being NOJO and now Pudpuller !!

I was beginning to question myself, maybe I had multiple personalities and I didn't know.. You have to admit it does brighten things up when we have people with strong different opinions, it would be boring it we all agreed and loved Virgin to bits..

It would be sickly like little kittens yuk!

Originally Posted by intheknow

I get accused of it so much, Cadire accused me of being another 'intheknow' from the internet who works for Sky, then I've been accused of being NOJO and now Pudpuller !!

I was beginning to question myself, maybe I had multiple personalities and I didn't know.. You have to admit it does brighten things up when we have people with strong different opinions, it would be boring it we all agreed and loved Virgin to bits..

It would be sickly like little kittens yuk!

I don't think you are pudpuller, simply because you have a decent command of the english language.

The whole anti-VM saga is interesting though, in fact so interesting it might possibly be the subject of an article (watch this space).

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by intheknow

I'm not nojo608 or pudpuller (I've had chats with him on PM) so I know he's not me!

The reason why setanta is 2.00 or 2.50, but Sky charge 5.00 is because they are only charging the people who want it, not all subscribers surely?

In any case are they not allowed to make a 50% profit on add on items like that? I should have thought that was ok since they need to use all of the other business services and network in supplying the content as well.

What is the 5.00

I understood that setanta sold direct to the customers on satelitte and freeview and had no deal with Sky (other than EPG costs and a separate deal related to pubs)

Or as you talking about Sky Sports in some way

I have to admit that I have always found the ideas of a sports channel being a premium channel a little strange ( movies yes a la video stores) so it nice to see sports and especially our national game back in a package rather than a premium. ideally I would fully want it back on terrestrial but now I am dreaming

Originally Posted by intheknow

I really do wish for some positive changes at VM, I would benefit, I'd get a better TV, phone and broadband service..

I think I overall get a good service from VM and as someone who has had Sky in the past they are certainly no utopian society as some portray. VM has in the previous post have a number of issues to solve and over the last month or three put foot in mouth a few times

Hopefully V1, VSN and this setanta deal is a step in the right direction

Well if a party that failed to achieve anything in ten years in power other than ruin the NHS, destroy the benefits system can surge in the poles by merely changing its leader ..................... OUT SB)

Originally Posted by intheknow

The true test of your pro VM arguments and of the arguments we have had recently will be the outcome of the ASA investigation and the court case.

I was waiting for the ASA and the Court Case to come to a least a point of decision or conclusion I think it was you who seemed unable to wait

If you mean Pro VM as reviewing the statements made, the court documents and still holding the view that the whole exercise was about SKY exerting its dominance over a potential upstart then on this matter I am Pro VM

Thats not the same as a VM Fanboy as you were making out without substance and, I frankly, found funny!

It's like a lad who changes his grilfriend being called promiscuous by Russell Brand!

Originally Posted by intheknow

I wonder which user NOJO is now?!

As you say you're not I will take your word

Probably a significant number of posters on this site would probably think you are and if paddy power were taking bets they would have paid out weeks ago based on posts not positive proof

[intheknow]

I'm not even going to bother coming back on some of those, but if you bothered to do your homework you would have seen that I was on the forum at the same time as NOJO, so unless he was posting under 2 usernames at the same time then it can't be me..

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by intheknow

I'm not even going to bother coming back on some of those, but if you bothered to do your homework you would have seen that I was on the forum at the same time as NOJO, so unless he was posting under 2 usernames at the same time then it can't be me..

As I said I'll take your word no need to provide other supporting evidence

Although the inability to use two posting names at exactly time as a defence would really not hold up in court or even the pub

matter closed

[intheknow]

Originally Posted by starsailor123

As I said I'll take your word no need to provide other supporting evidence

Although the inability to use two posting names at exactly time as a defence would really not hold up in court or even the pub

matter closed

Well that shows your ignorance of how court cases work and possibly explains your misunderstanding of the Virgin case, it's up to the accuser to prove the case, not the innocent to disprove.

The matter will be closed when you stop making these stupid unfounded allegations.

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by intheknow

Well that shows your ignorance of how court cases work and possibly explains your misunderstanding of the Virgin case, it's up to the accuser to prove the case, not the innocent to disprove.

The matter will be closed when you stop making these stupid allegations.

I meant it not a very good alibi! not proving the case at all but rebutting your protestations on the basis that you could not use two names at the same time.

Nothing to do with the VM case etc which I thought we had put to one side but once again you prove that you can't stop bringing it up can you

[intheknow]

oh **** *** starsailer, you're really doing my head in on these forums attacking everybody personally and telling us who can and can't chat here and accusing people of things willy nilly.

Originally Posted by intheknow

oh **** *** starsailer, you're really doing my head in on these forums attacking everybody personally and telling us who can and can't chat here and accusing people of things willy nilly.

Well not everybody as they haven't attacked me (nor told me what to post).

...I feel left out.

[intheknow]

Originally Posted by trunkydyke

Well not everybody as they haven't attacked me (nor told me what to post).

...I feel left out.

Ok, i'll have a go at you then, you don't reply to private messages !!

Originally Posted by intheknow

Ok, i'll have a go at you then, you don't reply to private messages !!

I only noticed the message about 10 mins ago, and deleted it before replying. I'll update, in the forum, when I get more news on tuesday afternoon.

[Stator]

Originally Posted by intheknow

oh **** *** starsailer, you're really doing my head in on these forums attacking everybody personally and telling us who can and can't chat here and accusing people of things willy nilly.

really getting on my tits too. every single VM thread is turning into a personal slagging match, instead of discussing the issues at hand.

[welwynrose]

Originally Posted by Stator

really getting on my tits too. every single VM thread is turning into a personal slagging match, instead of discussing the issues at hand.

agreed

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by welwynrose

agreed

agreed

THe fanboy comment got to me on a stressful day

Apologised to intheknow

[flashdisk]

Originally Posted by richard1960

Though if it does not go in your favour, intheknow, will you admit you were wrong though. We shall see.!

We shall indeed

The Advertising Standards Authority has ruled in favour of Virgin Media and has dismissed all complaints.


ASA Adjudications

Virgin Media Ltd
Date: 6 February 2008
Media: Radio, Poster, National press
Sector: Computers and telecommunications

Number of complaints: 22


Ad
a. A radio ad for Virgin Media Broadband. The voice-over said "... it's not just any old broadband, it's unlimited super duper fast fibre-optic cable broadband. Or in other words, broadband that doesn't use copper wire like most providers and doesn't slow down no matter how far you live from the telephone exchange". Another voice-over said "Virgin Broadband ... subject to availability ... acceptable use policy ... new broadband customers only".

b. An ad in the national press for Virgin Media Broadband was headed "Truth, Lies and Broadband". It stated "There are lots of companies out there selling 'high speed' broadband, claiming to be the fastest and cheapest in the land. The truth is this ... right now, in terms of broadband, there are two types of homes in the UK. Half of us can get cable broadband. This is delivered via a fibre optic cable - meaning it is officially the fastest and the best performing broadband available ... The other half of the country can get a standard connection - also known as ADSL (which stands for something tedious). Most broadband companies, like BT, Tiscali, Sky, TalkTalk and so on, only offer this. We offer it too and are quite proud of ours (in fact it's won awards). The thing is, ADSL uses your phone line so it slows down the further you live from the telephone exchange. This means you might not be getting the speed you pay for ... A visit to areyouuptospeed.com will tell you which type of home you live in, and what speed you could be getting."

c. A poster for Virgin Media Broadband was headed "Truth, Lies and Broadband". It stated "There are lots of companies out there selling 'high speed' broadband, claiming to be the fastest and cheapest in the land. The truth is this ... right now, in terms of broadband, there are two types of household in the UK. Half of us can access cable broadband. This is delivered via a fibre optic cable - meaning it is officially the fastest and most reliable available ... The other half of the country can get a standard connection - also known as ADSL (which stands for something tedious). Most companies, like BT, AOL, Tiscali, Sky, TalkTalk and so on, only offer this. We provide an award-winning version for people who can't get cable. ADSL uses your phone line so it slows down the further you live from the telephone exchange. This means you might not be getting the speed you've paid for ... A visit to areyouuptospeed.com will tell you which type of home you live in, and what connection speed you could be getting".


Issue
Twelve listeners and British Sky Broadcasting Ltd (Sky) challenged whether the radio ad was misleading because:

1. they believed that the connection from the street cabinet into the home did use copper wire.

2. Twelve listeners believed the use of a copper-coated wire (a copper wire connection) into the home could cause speed depreciation.

3. Sky challenged whether the ad gave the misleading impression that cable broadband speeds would never slow down, and that Virgin Media customers would always be able to achieve consistent broadband speeds.

4. Sky also challenged whether the statement "subject to availability" implied that all Virgin media customers, subject to availability, would get cable broadband as opposed to Virgin Media ADSL broadband.

Five readers and TalkTalk Telecom Ltd (TalkTalk) objected that the press ad was misleading because:

5. they believed that the connection from the street cabinet into the home did not use fibre optic cable, but used copper wire instead; and

6. the use of a copper wire connection into the home could cause speed depreciation.

7. TalkTalk and Sky objected that the claim, "the other half of the country get a standard connection ... Most broadband companies, like ... Sky, TalkTalk and so on, only offer this", implied that both Sky and TalkTalk had a UK ADSL coverage of around 50%, when they believed about 98% of the country could get an ADSL broadband connection.

8. TalkTalk challenged whether the claim "fastest and best performing broadband" was misleading because it compared ADSL with a 10 Mb cable connection, while the offer described in the small print was for Virgin's 2 Mb cable service. TalkTalk contended that their 8 Mb ADSL service was faster than Virgin's 2 Mb cable service.

9. TalkTalk complained that the ad was denigratory because it implied that Virgin Media was the only broadband company to tell the truth, and that other broadband companies did not inform their customers what broadband speed was available to them at a particular price.

10. One complainant objected that the poster was misleading because they believed that the delivery of broadband from the street into the home used metal co-axial cable and not fibre-optic cable.


ASA Assessment

1, 2, 3, 4 ,5 ,6 ,7 ,8 ,9, & 10 - Not upheld

Action
No further action necessary.


The full ASA adjudication can be read at : -

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudicati..._ADJ_43928.htm

[seaneeboy]

Common sense prevails!

[1701-E]

Great stuff... i'm still in shock that VM won !!!! Here's to more victories .....

[mossy2103]

And just to highlight the main parts of the adjudication:

ASA Assessment

1, 2, 3, 4 ,5 ,6 ,7 ,8 ,9, & 10 - Not upheld

Action
No further action necessary.

[virginmediaguy]

Isn't bignoise still about? I'm sure he had a similar complaint about this.