Freeview WILL Be On HD! - Freeview

simon2710 · 03-04-2008, 10:45

Just heard on news that Freeview will definately be going HD but you will have to wait until 2012 for this to happen but then byou can watch the olympics in HD!

More information at: OfCom

Original Story reported on: BBC News

alanwarwic · 03-04-2008, 11:13

Ofcom state " Ofcom published a consultation on its proposals in November 2007 which received broad support from broadcasters."

Unless its a different consultation this is almost a complete and utter lie or at best a half truth. It simply means that they have gone ahead and ignored everything.
Where are Ofcoms replies to the replies. None. They chose to simply ignore them all.

Unless they start HD now and then also allocate new spectrum on switchover terrestial TV will die a slow death even before that date.

Most people might already have Freesat before then. And if Freesat bitrates for HD are decent noone wil want to downgrade to the very low quality of Freeview HD.

DrCheese · 03-04-2008, 11:16

Ofcom are a bunch of flaming retards. They have ignored everyone and done its own thing (again) It's proposal only accounts for FOUR hd channels which is going to look terrible compaired to the large amount that will be on freesat by then and if virgin has got its act together by then(haha) Cable.

What a joke.

03-04-2008, 11:32

Oh great. So most people are going to have to buy ANOTHER Freeview box?

I'm not personally against it but there are loads of people around the country who are going to become confused ... again.

dazbear · 03-04-2008, 11:38

Have to agree...apart from the Gallifreyone forum this has to be the harshest forum I use - always think twice about posting in case I get flamed.

Shame - should be a nice community for people with a shared interest.

Thank you for your news - I too was not aware it had been confirmed.

wgmorg · 03-04-2008, 11:40

No ... only people that want to receive HD broadcasts ... its always been the case that they would have to upgrade their equipement.

There was never any likelihood that DTT HD would have used MPEG2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1007

So most people are going to have to buy ANOTHER Freeview box?

tutu · 03-04-2008, 11:56

FOUR channels is not enough to warrant the expenditure IMHO. I prefer my freeview when it's integrated into my TV so I guess I will have to buy a new TV!! (for a better picture). If you read the story there should be 3 channels in 2009.

I can't believe they have ignored all those replies. We should be looking at 12+ HD Channels not 4.

Of course I'm hoping that when they release the boxes it would be possible to alter that in the future (when we actually have DVB-T2/MPEG-4).

Who actually wants mobile TV? When I first read about it I thought what a bloody waste.

This a step FORWARD however and I'm glad OFCOM are at least doing something.

alanwarwic · 03-04-2008, 12:12

it still hints that they are 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul'.

The 'digital dividend' that from the freed up analogue muxes have been totally ignored. Presumably so that they can go ahead and sell to the highest bidder. This everyone expects to be mobile phone companies.

With most switchovers, and the 3 channels appearing in 2011, I would expect that most TV companies will be even more poverty stricken. Any hope of them bidding for this 'public space' will be near nil.

I suppose Sky could buy a large block!!!!!!!!!!!!

SimonBlackham · 03-04-2008, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by tutu

FOUR channels is not enough to warrant the expenditure IMHO...
I can't believe they have ignored all those replies. We should be looking at 12+ HD Channels not 4.

How many HD channels are available on any one other platform so far?

Lets walk before we run!

A very high percentage of TV does not yet warrant HD - but if there is HD out there then the 'Standard' DTT box will start to incorporate it - allowing piecemeal change to MPEG4 and HD as it becomes commercially viable.

The PSB channels will be available in SD for the (medium term?) forseeable future as they have an obligation to provide the service to nearly 100% of the population. They will not be allowed to switch off (MPEG2) SD until the replacement broadcasts (of whatever form ... SD, ED, HD etc.) will not disenfranchise more than a miniscule percentage of existing viewers. This is not to say that (say) ITV will not junk their PSB obligations and switch earlier on straight commercial grounds. If a PSB broadcaster does lose their viewing reach then they will have problems getting 'protected' sporting events (important for HD!) - noting that five have just applied to be in the 'club' as they now have sufficient reach with Freeview - something they never had with analogue alone.

rediproof · 03-04-2008, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

With most switchovers, and the 3 channels appearing in 2011, I would expect that most TV companies will be even more poverty stricken. Any hope of them bidding for this 'public space' will be near nil.

I suppose Sky could buy a large block!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would Sky buy the spectrum left from switchover when they have their own platform that already covers the whole of the UK and has the capactiy to deliver more channels?

It's more likely that the spectrum will be bought by the likes of BT, Vodafone, Google etc... to provide WiMAX services such as mobile internet. Just look at the US auction of similar spectrum which raised $19bn.

With FreeSat (the BBC & ITV version not Sky's) looking like launching this year or next, IPTV just starting to take off, the need for Freeview in the long run to offer more than a limited number of HD channels does not make sense. Those who want more channels have the option of another platform, those who don't can stick with Freeview.

diddy1234 · 03-04-2008, 12:36

seems to me then the cheapest option is to stay with a PC and a freeview card.

Provided the PC has enough horse power (and codecs) then mpeg 2 / 4 is not a problem as well as SD and HD.

This method has worked for me for the past 3 years and looks set to just carry on working.

alanwarwic · 03-04-2008, 12:43

I very much doubt its suited for Wimax. The spectrum is more suited for an even longer distance and thus would have too small a customer base per bandwdth.

Sky of course would ike a larger 'Picnic' for its new 'target audience'.
Personally I think all anaolgue spectrum should be taken away from the Sky monopoly.

_ben · 03-04-2008, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by diddy1234

seems to me then the cheapest option is to stay with a PC and a freeview card.

Provided the PC has enough horse power (and codecs) then mpeg 2 / 4 is not a problem as well as SD and HD.

This method has worked for me for the past 3 years and looks set to just carry on working.

I think you would need a new freeview card for DVB-T2

garbage456 · 03-04-2008, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon2710

Just heard on news that Freeview will definately be going HD but you will have to wait until 2012 for this to happen but then byou can watch the olympics in HD!

More information at: OfCom

Original Story reported on: BBC News

freeview on HD, dont you mean HD will be on freeview?

rediproof · 03-04-2008, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

I very much doubt its suited for Wimax. The spectrum is more suited for an even longer distance and thus would have too small a customer base per bandwdth.

Sky of course would ike a larger 'Picnic' for its new 'target audience'.
Personally I think all anaolgue spectrum should be taken away from the Sky monopoly.

I'm sorry but your completely wrong. from theRegister

"Weaknesses of the Wi-Fi metrozone experiment have highlighted the flaws in using the overcrowded 2.4GHz with WLANs, and so Google and Microsoft are looking to lower frequencies with better propagation qualities, such as TV bands, and to new technologies more optimized for mobile internet use"

Even EU commissioner Viviane Reding is saying re-allocation of 500–800 MHz spectrum for wireless communication, including WiMAX is a desirable option.

sdrogerson · 03-04-2008, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazbear

Have to agree...apart from the Gallifreyone forum this has to be the harshest forum I use - always think twice about posting in case I get flamed.

Shame - should be a nice community for people with a shared interest.

Thank you for your news - I too was not aware it had been confirmed.

It is indeed with poor moderation policy as well.
The issue is covered much more fully and with acrimony elsewhere of course as you know, namely : HERE

alanwarwic · 03-04-2008, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by rediproof

I'm sorry but your completely wrong. from theRegister
Even EU commissioner Viviane Reding is saying re-allocation of 500–800 MHz spectrum for wireless communication, including WiMAX is a desirable option.

I'm not exactly sure how a USA centred article would actually apply to the UK and its extra high density population.

steveboswell · 03-04-2008, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

I'm not exactly sure how a USA centred article would actually apply to the UK and its extra high density population.

Because the EU commissioner said it was a good idea?

Bozz

rediproof · 03-04-2008, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

I'm not exactly sure how a USA centred article would actually apply to the UK and its extra high density population.

I'm sorry but you have not got a clue.

It's the same frequencies so you'll be able to use the same kit, which having being produced for the US market would benefit from economies and scale and therefore would be relatively cheap (just look at 2.4 GHz wireless LANS which were developed for the US market).

It has nothing to do with population densities. In fact the high population density in the UK would make it a better business opportunity as you'll need less transmitters to cover more people.

alanwarwic · 03-04-2008, 14:15

Any 'CLUES' where you get this hypothesis from?

2Bdecided · 03-04-2008, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon2710

Just heard on news that Freeview will definately be going HD but you will have to wait until 2012 for this to happen but then byou can watch the olympics in HD!

You can watch one feed from the Olympics on BBC HD. Another two or three will be available via BBC Two, BBCi 301 and BBCi 302 - which, thanks to the extra compression required to fit HD in, will look even worse, especially on sports broadcasts.

Alternatively, you could get Freesat - BBC HD at a higher bitrate, more sports covered via more BBCi streams, and no wrecking of SD services to fit HD in.

Cheers,
David.

Brekkie · 03-04-2008, 14:41

So as usual OFCOM open a consultation and completely ignore all views except their own.

The plans are - and always have been - seriously flawed. 4 or 5 HD services isn't going to be viable in the long term - the only way to get a decent amount of HD services on DTT is to free up extra bandwidth post-DSO.

It's insulting too only the BBC get a guaranteed slot, with ITV, C4, Five and even S4C expected to fight it out for the others - despite the fact ITV and C4 will be losing some of their own gifted space as a result of this new HD mux.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was the non-PSB muxes being squeezed into 2 muxes to free up a third for HD - that could work quite easily.

But no, they squeeze the PSB channels into two muxes, when ITV & C4's mux is already full as it is - now they're expected to sacrifice channels to make room for Five and probably BBC Parliament. And the mathematics of it all make it look like one BBC channel will be dropped too.

The idea of HD on DTT needs to be completely dropped IMO, with the focus instead being on making Freesat effectively FreeviewHD - where space isn't so much of an issue, and other services won't be compromised to make room for HD.

As for HD Olympics - I'd much rather see an increased amount of interactive streams so we can have the six or so screens Sky viewers will get - rather than space being wasted on just one HD channel, likely to be simulcasting what is already available in SD.

beardedwonder · 03-04-2008, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Bdecided

Alternatively, you could get Freesat - BBC HD at a higher bitrate, more sports covered via more BBCi streams, and no wrecking of SD services to fit HD in.

Well ITV have done a pretty good job of wrecking their bitrates and resolution on DSAT, and that's without having HD at all!!

03-04-2008, 14:53

The BBC have suggested they will probably drop one of their interactive streams. From the Ofcom statement, paragraph 4.97:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ofcom

The BBC had already indicated to us that one of its interactive services may be
removed from the platform. This decision is a matter for the BBC Trust and the BBC
Executive, not Ofcom.

Brekkie · 03-04-2008, 14:58

Hopefully the BBC Trust will block it then - they seem to have (a fraction) more sense than OFCOM.

If the Olympics is the driving factor (though it's not), you can be certain most viewers would want more interactive streams available (so they're on a par with Sky) than the one HD stream. It's not worth the sacrifice.

More generally, with these plans would integrated digital HDTV's be able to receive the services, or does the change in transmission modes means they too will need a STB.

03-04-2008, 10:45	#1
simon2710 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: West Yorkshire Services: Provided By Emley Moor Mast - Freeview(Wharfedale DV832B & Phillips DTR320) Posts: 56	Freeview WILL Be On HD! Just heard on news that Freeview will definately be going HD but you will have to wait until 2012 for this to happen but then byou can watch the olympics in HD! More information at: OfCom Original Story reported on: BBC News

03-04-2008, 11:13	#2
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Services: The computer says no. Posts: 8,550	Ofcom state " Ofcom published a consultation on its proposals in November 2007 which received broad support from broadcasters." Unless its a different consultation this is almost a complete and utter lie or at best a half truth. It simply means that they have gone ahead and ignored everything. Where are Ofcoms replies to the replies. None. They chose to simply ignore them all. Unless they start HD now and then also allocate new spectrum on switchover terrestial TV will die a slow death even before that date. Most people might already have Freesat before then. And if Freesat bitrates for HD are decent noone wil want to downgrade to the very low quality of Freeview HD.

03-04-2008, 11:16	#3
DrCheese Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Peterborough! Services: Virgin Media/ITV Central area Posts: 259	Ofcom are a bunch of flaming retards. They have ignored everyone and done its own thing (again) It's proposal only accounts for FOUR hd channels which is going to look terrible compaired to the large amount that will be on freesat by then and if virgin has got its act together by then(haha) Cable. What a joke.

03-04-2008, 11:32	#4
Tom1007 Posts: n/a	Oh great. So most people are going to have to buy ANOTHER Freeview box? I'm not personally against it but there are loads of people around the country who are going to become confused ... again.

03-04-2008, 11:38	#5
dazbear Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Services: SKY+HD Posts: 385	Have to agree...apart from the Gallifreyone forum this has to be the harshest forum I use - always think twice about posting in case I get flamed. Shame - should be a nice community for people with a shared interest. Thank you for your news - I too was not aware it had been confirmed.

03-04-2008, 11:56	#7
tutu Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 13	FOUR channels is not enough to warrant the expenditure IMHO. I prefer my freeview when it's integrated into my TV so I guess I will have to buy a new TV!! (for a better picture). If you read the story there should be 3 channels in 2009. I can't believe they have ignored all those replies. We should be looking at 12+ HD Channels not 4. Of course I'm hoping that when they release the boxes it would be possible to alter that in the future (when we actually have DVB-T2/MPEG-4). Who actually wants mobile TV? When I first read about it I thought what a bloody waste. This a step FORWARD however and I'm glad OFCOM are at least doing something.

03-04-2008, 12:12	#8
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Services: The computer says no. Posts: 8,550	it still hints that they are 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul'. The 'digital dividend' that from the freed up analogue muxes have been totally ignored. Presumably so that they can go ahead and sell to the highest bidder. This everyone expects to be mobile phone companies. With most switchovers, and the 3 channels appearing in 2011, I would expect that most TV companies will be even more poverty stricken. Any hope of them bidding for this 'public space' will be near nil. I suppose Sky could buy a large block!!!!!!!!!!!!

03-04-2008, 12:36	#11
diddy1234 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Herts Services: Freeview, Freesat, NTL Broadband Posts: 113	seems to me then the cheapest option is to stay with a PC and a freeview card. Provided the PC has enough horse power (and codecs) then mpeg 2 / 4 is not a problem as well as SD and HD. This method has worked for me for the past 3 years and looks set to just carry on working.

03-04-2008, 12:43	#12
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Services: The computer says no. Posts: 8,550	I very much doubt its suited for Wimax. The spectrum is more suited for an even longer distance and thus would have too small a customer base per bandwdth. Sky of course would ike a larger 'Picnic' for its new 'target audience'. Personally I think all anaolgue spectrum should be taken away from the Sky monopoly.

03-04-2008, 14:15	#20
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Services: The computer says no. Posts: 8,550	Any 'CLUES' where you get this hypothesis from?

03-04-2008, 14:41	#22
Brekkie Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: North Wales Services: LFLF (bunker) Posts: 4,077 Blog Entries: 10	So as usual OFCOM open a consultation and completely ignore all views except their own. The plans are - and always have been - seriously flawed. 4 or 5 HD services isn't going to be viable in the long term - the only way to get a decent amount of HD services on DTT is to free up extra bandwidth post-DSO. It's insulting too only the BBC get a guaranteed slot, with ITV, C4, Five and even S4C expected to fight it out for the others - despite the fact ITV and C4 will be losing some of their own gifted space as a result of this new HD mux. It wouldn't be so bad if it was the non-PSB muxes being squeezed into 2 muxes to free up a third for HD - that could work quite easily. But no, they squeeze the PSB channels into two muxes, when ITV & C4's mux is already full as it is - now they're expected to sacrifice channels to make room for Five and probably BBC Parliament. And the mathematics of it all make it look like one BBC channel will be dropped too. The idea of HD on DTT needs to be completely dropped IMO, with the focus instead being on making Freesat effectively FreeviewHD - where space isn't so much of an issue, and other services won't be compromised to make room for HD. As for HD Olympics - I'd much rather see an increased amount of interactive streams so we can have the six or so screens Sky viewers will get - rather than space being wasted on just one HD channel, likely to be simulcasting what is already available in SD.

03-04-2008, 14:58	#25
Brekkie Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: North Wales Services: LFLF (bunker) Posts: 4,077 Blog Entries: 10	Hopefully the BBC Trust will block it then - they seem to have (a fraction) more sense than OFCOM. If the Olympics is the driving factor (though it's not), you can be certain most viewers would want more interactive streams available (so they're on a par with Sky) than the one HD stream. It's not worth the sacrifice. More generally, with these plans would integrated digital HDTV's be able to receive the services, or does the change in transmission modes means they too will need a STB.