[Boinng]

This just occurred to me, it's probably been discussed a thousand times before, and most of its basic points shot down as being wildly out of line with canon etc... but I have to just throw it out there in case it's anything new:

We left Rose in the alternate universe, right? Where there was an alt Jackie, alt Mickey, alt Torchwood etc etc.

Was there an alt Doctor?

Was that question ever asked/answered?

IF not, and I know that's a long shot and I must have just missed a memo somewhere, is it not possible that Rose found him? Is that how she's getting back into our universe, with the aid of a timelord? Could it even be that it's this alt Doctor who appears (along with alt Cybermen) in the christmas special shooting now?

I know, this must all be very, very wrong....

[amos_brearley]

Mentioned and discussed no end of times on here! There's supposed to be just one set of Time Lords across all time and space. Some people argue against that, but if there were alt-Time Lords, wouldn't the Doctor have sought them out in "Rise of the Cybermen"?

[Yoonix]

An evil Alt-Doc, playing God, could've been DW's Q... but alas...

[NewbieCanuck]

Originally Posted by amos_brearley

if there were alt-Time Lords, wouldn't the Doctor have sought them out in "Rise of the Cybermen"?

No, he's just like Daffyd Thomas, insisting he's the only Time Lord in the village despite being surrounded by all kinds of people drinking from the furry TARDIS.

[Mulett]

You see, I don't think its ever been said on screen that there is only one set of timelords - so if there are timelords in parallel dimensions why can't there be another Doctor?

Why else would there be another Torchwood?

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by Mulett

You see, I don't think its ever been said on screen that there is only one set of timelords - so if there are timelords in parallel dimensions why can't there be another Doctor?

Why else would there be another Torchwood?

The only thing that has been said on screen was that the Time Lords were the ones who enabled people to access alt!Universes.

As to Torchwood, that exists on Pete's world because the "Event" that split "Pete's Universe" off from the Whoverse happened after (maybe during) the events of "Tooth and Claw".

[JohnFlawbod]

Originally Posted by Mulett

You see, I don't think its ever been said on screen that there is only one set of timelords - so if there are timelords in parallel dimensions why can't there be another Doctor?

Why else would there be another Torchwood?

You think in such three-dimensional terms

[amos_brearley]

Originally Posted by Mulett

You see, I don't think its ever been said on screen that there is only one set of timelords - so if there are timelords in parallel dimensions why can't there be another Doctor?

Why else would there be another Torchwood?

The Doctor says it used to be easy for his people to move between universes in "Rise of the Cybermen", so if there are Time Lords in other dimensions, how come none of them have come to the universe the Doctor is in?

I think it's a moot point anyway, as they should all have been wiped out by the Time War.

[Old Man 43]

Originally Posted by Boinng

This just occurred to me, it's probably been discussed a thousand times before, and most of its basic points shot down as being wildly out of line with canon etc... but I have to just throw it out there in case it's anything new:

We left Rose in the alternate universe, right? Where there was an alt Jackie, alt Mickey, alt Torchwood etc etc.

Was there an alt Doctor?

Was that question ever asked/answered?

IF not, and I know that's a long shot and I must have just missed a memo somewhere, is it not possible that Rose found him? Is that how she's getting back into our universe, with the aid of a timelord? Could it even be that it's this alt Doctor who appears (along with alt Cybermen) in the christmas special shooting now?

I know, this must all be very, very wrong....

The only way that I think that this could have happened is in parallel universes that split off while The Doctor was Human during Human Nature & The Family of Blood.

[agent_c]

One of the Various Wikipedia articles says that torchwood was mentioned in a news broadcast whilst in the alternate universe - Suggesting that Republican Britain made Torchwood as official as UNIT.

[Aesa]

I seem to remember reading/hearing/seeing somewhere that, prior to the Time war, Gallifrey etc wasn't in a universe and the Time Lords could flit around as they pleased, then after the Time War it wasn't possible any more and the Doctor was stuck in the universe he's in now. Surely that could have happened to another Time Lord? Then the Doctor wouldn't be able to 'sense' the other survivor (or survivors) as they were both locked in other universes (also when in Pete's World the Doctor wouldn't have really been thinking about other Time Lords due to the tiny distraction of Cybermen wandering around), perhaps?

[Simon__UK]

Originally Posted by Boinng

We left Rose in the alternate universe, right? Where there was an alt Jackie, alt Mickey, alt Torchwood etc etc.

Was there an alt Doctor?

As I understand it, we must view Gallifrey as similar to the hallway of your house - and the Time Lords as the inhabitants of it.

Off the hallway, there my be a many rooms, all represnting different times, dates, points from which history deviates kaledoscopically, into other rooms, off other rooms.

The TimeLords, being the only halllway *beings*, were the only ones able to pass from room to room.

The Time War was essentially the equivalent of the hallway being burned to the ground.

Whilst the surviving Timelords (ie: The Doctor / The Master ) could pass between the walls of those rooms of thier side of where the hallway used to be, they could no longer access the alternate universes on the otherside of the hallway. (ie: Where our sides' Rose, Jackie & Mickey are now trapped.)

Where Gallifrey was - now lies 'the void' - an impenitrable limbo space - where nothing may pass through.

Somehow, the Cybermen / Daleks managed to take themselves from the void, into each side of the 'hallway'.

But when the Doctor sucked them out of this side of the hallway (and Rose with them) - the doors were essentially sealed off / walled over. There was no point at which either side of the hallway might reconnect. Only a void existed between them. Not a hallway - not the 'space / time vortex' - just nothingness.

The dark. Impenitrable, unimaginable dark.

Imagine if you will, John Barrowmans' sphincter.




Only impenitrable....

[Listentome]

It hasn't been explicitly said on screen. But there have been lines like 'the Time Lords watched over all of space and time', which suggests one set of them. I guess the truth is if the writers decide there are alternate universe TLs there will be.

I think perhaps there could have been alternate universe Time Lords, but the Time War wiped them out from every possible parallel universe across space and time, in every dimension. The same for the Daleks (apart from the void ones). If I was the Doctor I would have used that Dalek void ship to enter the breach and see if there were some Time Lords hiding out in there too

[Boinng]

Well, I thought it was probably stupid... the whole multiple timelords thing is obviously a can of worms, but in my dim memory of that Cyberman two-parter (it was too bad to ever re-watch) there seemed to be suggestions that the Doctor wasn't supposed to be in that universe - like the Tardis practically dying on entry (wasn't its energy source supposed to be incompatible with the alt universe, or something?)

It just made me wonder for a moment whether something really obvious has been staring us in the face... as someone said, if there's no alt Doctor, why is there an alt Torchwood? Okay it can be explained by that universe tearing off our own after Torchwood was established, but then, so many other things were different.. was it really just the last 100 years that had run a different course?

Why didn't the Doctor go look for the alt universe timelords... well, lots of possible explanations for that. Fear, perhaps... ISTR him having to remind Rose and Mickey that the family they met there weren't their family, it wasn't really Rose's dad etc, presumably he would try to apply the same hardnosed logic to himself, probably with good reason?

Can we really be sure what effect the Time War had across alt universes? When we (or the timelords) talk of "all space and time", could that not legitimately just mean our universe?

[amos_brearley]

The Doctor gave in pretty quickly and let Mickey and Rose run off to meet their alt-families though, didn't he? I reckon if he had a Time Lord posse waiting in Pete's World, he'd have tried to get in touch.

[Aesa]

Originally Posted by Boinng

Well, I thought it was probably stupid... the whole multiple timelords thing is obviously a can of worms, but in my dim memory of that Cyberman two-parter (it was too bad to ever re-watch) there seemed to be suggestions that the Doctor wasn't supposed to be in that universe - like the Tardis practically dying on entry (wasn't its energy source supposed to be incompatible with the alt universe, or something?)

It just made me wonder for a moment whether something really obvious has been staring us in the face... as someone said, if there's no alt Doctor, why is there an alt Torchwood? Okay it can be explained by that universe tearing off our own after Torchwood was established, but then, so many other things were different.. was it really just the last 100 years that had run a different course?

Why didn't the Doctor go look for the alt universe timelords... well, lots of possible explanations for that. Fear, perhaps... ISTR him having to remind Rose and Mickey that the family they met there weren't their family, it wasn't really Rose's dad etc, presumably he would try to apply the same hardnosed logic to himself, probably with good reason?

Can we really be sure what effect the Time War had across alt universes? When we (or the timelords) talk of "all space and time", could that not legitimately just mean our universe?

Perhaps it was started prior to the Time War, when they could wander between universes - a different Time Lord went and meddled with that universe at some point, Torchwood was formed, then the Time War happened. Just a thought.

[Craig //]

I know there wasn't an alternative Rose. Instead of having a baby, they got a cat and called it Rose.

[oysterfrond]

I read the whole thing as an "alt-earth" story. OK it was talked about as if it were two alternate universes, but my take on it was that we were supposed to accept that its effects were localised around the rift in the void. However large the localised area and however cataclysmic the rift.

In other words the majority of time-space - including the time-space of parallel universes - remained largely unaffected. Leaving plenty of room for more Daleks and more alt-Daleks, more Cybermen and more alt-Cybermen, and maybe even if not more Time-Lords then more alt-Time-Lords...

At the end of the day they make this suff up as they go along, so any rational explanation is always gonna be fragile at best...

[Wize]

When the Tardis crashed on the Alt world, it was said that the Tardis could not be powered from there. It was jumpstarted by its one remaining live component and the Doctors lifeforce. Others may not have been so lucky.

[sfchandler]

if its possible or not i think it would make for a good story having alt versions of time lords , particularly the doctor , an evil one especially seeing the doctor do the unimaginable what the wrong choices could of made of him that sort of thing

[Analysethis]

Originally Posted by sfchandler

if its possible or not i think it would make for a good story having alt versions of time lords , particularly the doctor , an evil one especially seeing the doctor do the unimaginable what the wrong choices could of made of him that sort of thing

And of course, we shall ignore the other 1000 reasons explained aboove, because 'it would make for a good story'.
The way I understand it, Gallifrey existed outside space and time altogether. There was only one 'version' of it, separate from everything else. And thus its timeline can not be travelled back on, so when it burned, it burned. There's only one Doctor and only one Master as they originated from Gallifrey.

[CANDYANGEL]

Originally Posted by Craig //

I know there wasn't an alternative Rose. Instead of having a baby, they got a cat and called it Rose.

It was a dog, a little Yorkie.

[sfchandler]

Originally Posted by Analysethis

And of course, we shall ignore the other 1000 reasons explained above, because 'it would make for a good story'.
The way I understand it, Gallifrey existed outside space and time altogether. There was only one 'version' of it, separate from everything else. And thus its time line can not be traveled back on, so when it burned, it burned. There's only one Doctor and only one Master as they originated from Gallifrey.

so no possibility it became the Shining World of the six Systems'

[Old Man 43]

The best way of explaining Time and the Time Lords interaction with it is:-

Imagine that time is like a river that flows from the source (The Big Bang) to the sea (100 trillion years in the future). Most life forms get swept down the river a few are like salmon and can jump back up the river.

The Time Lords live on the river bank and can go up and down the river at will. Most of the time they just look and don’t interfere. Sometimes the jump into the river and try to sort out problems that occur (Especially when other species start using and abusing Time Travel). The Doctor does this all the time.

As for alternate timelines they are like the channels in a river delta. They split off from the main river but this does not affect life on the land around the river which continues regardless of what the river does. Indeed the life on and around the river bank can move from one channel to another.

It seems that the Daleks did not like the Time Lords interfering and jumped out of the river and attacked them with the aim of stopping the Time Lords and try to gain control of the river bank. So the Doctor (seeing that The Daleks were about to win and to protect the river) had no choice but to destroy the river bank.

This has had the effect of preventing time travellers that lived on the river bank from jumping from one channel in the delta of time.

So you will see the Time Lords lived in the area of the river bank and there was only one such area so only one set of Time Lords. On the other hand we live in the river and this has created multiple versions of our world in each channel.

Of course this does not mean that there could not be other Time Lords stranded in other channels. But there should not be different versions of the same Time Lord.

[Gin&Tonic]

Didn't Adric come from 'N Space'?

Back to the Tom Baker years ;-)