EastEnders scriptwriters blast producers and storylines (including Den's revival) - Soaps

Pop Princess · 08-03-2005, 15:43

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...name_page.html

SHALLOW, BANAL.. PROFOUNDLY DEPRESSING

Mar 7 2005

- AND THAT'S WHAT THE SCRIPTWRITERS THINK!

By Shaun Connolly

EASTENDERS' own scriptwriters have branded plotlines in the crisis-hit soap as "shallow and banal".

And they accused producers of insisting on improbable story twists that were "profoundly depressing, wearying and disheartening".

Leaked minutes of a meeting on December 2 last year between writers' representatives and producers reveal open warfare.

Jean Kitson, of the Personal Managers' Association, which represents scriptwriters, took notes of the showdown. She recorded that producers "accepted that right at the moment the situation is chaos".

Ms Kitson wrote: "I made points clearly about writers feeling stories were melodramatic, banal and shallow and that many drafts that these led to were profoundly depressing wearying and disheartening." Writers heavily criticised bringing Dirty Den Watts back from the dead to see him murdered for real.

BBC bosses rejected the attacks saying the show was "producer-led, not writer-led - and always has been".

Just 6.3million watched an episode last week, the second lowest ever.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know why the BBC are rejecting the attacks. Sounds to me as if the writers are the only ones who know exactly what's going on.

It says there was open warfare between writers and producers was revealed at a meeting on December 2 - suddenly KH's quick exit is making sense and is no surprise.

I am glad these notes were released, if only to show the BBC and the new producer that the way it is right now is not what the writers think is good and we want a different direction.

beee · 08-03-2005, 15:46

It must be terrible to have to write a script when you know that the plot makes no sense - I can't imagine having to be creative and professional under that pressure. It is interesting to see these leaked minutes - if anything, they prove that John Yorke couldn't possibly have Den return yet again for fear of a real mutiny from the writers.

I wonder what the writers think of Phil's return? Are they dreading it as much as I am?

WalfordWill · 08-03-2005, 16:00

This would tie in with what Bob Ritchie suggested in his journal. The writers have been given little or no control over what gets aired and what doesn't, basically they've been at the mercy of the likes of Louise Berridge for two years with bombastic storylines, weak characters and pathetic sensationalism. To go from Louise Berridge to Kathleen Hutchison who came in and tore up six months of their work and ordered them to redo it all over again, its no wonder the writers at EastEnders are pissed off, I would be too.

Everything they said is true, but the show is Producer led, now, I have to say EastEnders up to the point of Louise Berridge, had some pretty good Producers i.e. Corinne Hollingworth, Matthew Robinson and then John Yorke. This worked for them as these Producers obviously knew what they were doing and Produced some great work.

I reckon they hate Louise Berridge for her rubbish ideas but hate Kathleen Hutchison even more for making them pay for another Exec Producers mistakes, and really, who can blame them? Whoever decided or thought that Louise Berridge would be good for their flagship soap should be fired.

And if they insist on having the show Producer led, at least hire some competent Producers who know what they're doing.

Reading this and what BR was saying, it sounds as the writers were just glorified typists for the past couple of years, with little or no control over their work.

Nope! · 08-03-2005, 16:00

Whats wrong with Phil returning? He was going to anyway, he did only take a break and didn't leave for good, something people keep forgetting. He was going to return at some point and that point is now, accept it

beee · 08-03-2005, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nope!

Whats wrong with Phil returning? He was going to anyway, he did only take a break and didn't leave for good, something people keep forgetting. He was going to return at some point and that point is now, accept it

No need to get angry - I accept it, but I don't necessarily want to see him back. As a character, I feel he has run his course, and he must be difficult to write for if any scriptwriter feels the same way.

TheSarge · 08-03-2005, 16:11

The actors blamed the Scriptwriters – who obviously had to take their direction from the Storyliners and are now blaming the Producers for the unbelievable and depressing storylines and I’m guessing they blame the Exec. Producers for being too autocratic (namely Louise Berridge) – who blamed Mal Young for not supporting her, when she needed his input and Mr Young couldn’t give a rats arse whose to blame - just as long as it’s not him

.

Whilst I blame Louise Berridge for taking on a job she couldn’t fulfil and The bosses at Elstree for letting the situation get so bad, before they intervened.

Caramel · 08-03-2005, 16:17

These posts have made interesting reading.

Indeed, why did they let it go on so long before they intervened?

I'm not keen on seeing Phil back, I feel he character has run its course.

beee · 08-03-2005, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caramel

These posts have made interesting reading.

Indeed, why did they let it go on so long before they intervened?

I would imagine that they felt that complaining would lead to the loss of their job - I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who'd give their right arm for the chance of working on Eastenders. It's nice to know that the writers feel the same way as a lot of the fans, though

WalfordWill · 08-03-2005, 16:22

The people at Elstree were probably having a great time under the lack of direction and general lack of ambition the soap had during Berridge's reign. "Ahh any ould shite will do, hey Louise you coming out on Saturday night? yeh, them episodes can wait, just doe the Is and cross the Ts and send it to Bob, he'll take care of it, come on lets go on the piss"

DenWatts · 08-03-2005, 16:22

I agree with Will in post #3, but at least things are on the up.

Read Bob's journal here:
http://www.writersservices.com/mag/m...itchie_new.htm
Note in particular the very last paragraph of the front page.

For most of us enlightened ones who actually read this forum, it's old news the Mirror is peddling.

Polly_Perkins · 08-03-2005, 16:35

yes I think KH went in very heavy handed and wanted a quick turn around. I for one found Dens death very sloppy, just look at Corrie when you have a year to plan it. Thats not the writers fault and I for one was blameing them when infact Im glad they have come out about this because critics and the public alike have held the blame with the scriptwriters.

DenWatts · 08-03-2005, 16:36

And sorry to be pedantic Pop Princess, but the Mirror story actually says the scriptwriters were upset to bring Den back, only for him to be killed off for real.

Implying what we all know, that the new (old) regime did not want him killed off once resurrected.

Pop Princess · 08-03-2005, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by oomonkeyboyoo

And sorry to be pedantic Pop Princess, but the Mirror story actually says the scriptwriters were upset to bring Den back, only for him to be killed off for real.

Implying what we all know, that the new (old) regime did not want him killed off once resurrected.

You weren't being pedantic, don't worry. Thanks for pointing that out. I read that line wrongly the first time. I would have liked Den to have stayed myself. I admit I hated the fact he returned at all but in the episodes in the couple of weeks before his death, he was about the best thing in it.

beee · 08-03-2005, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by oomonkeyboyoo

And sorry to be pedantic Pop Princess, but the Mirror story actually says the scriptwriters were upset to bring Den back, only for him to be killed off for real.

Implying what we all know, that the new (old) regime did not want him killed off once resurrected.

I'd say that the line in the article referring to Den's second coming is a bit ambiguous...

Quote:

"Writers heavily criticised bringing Dirty Den Watts back from the dead to see him murdered for real."

I interpreted it the opposite way to you (that they didn't want him back at all), although I can also see that it suggests they didn't want to kill him off.

DenWatts · 08-03-2005, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pop Princess

I would have liked Den to have stayed myself. I admit I hated the fact he returned at all but in the episodes in the couple of weeks before his death, he was about the best thing in it.

I would have liked him to stay too, and I totally agree about his stories, definitely worth watching.

I can almost feel John Yorke's frustration myself that she killed him off again.
That woman should be tried and convicted for crimes against the viewing nation for what she did to our favourite soap. Grrr!

DenWatts · 08-03-2005, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by beee

I'd say that the line in the article referring to Den's second coming is a bit ambiguous...

I interpreted it the opposite way to you (that they didn't want him back at all), although I can also see that it suggests they didn't want to kill him off.

I agree it's very ambiguous. Sloppy writing, but this is the Mirror we're talking about.

JY's frustration about killing Den off for a second time is widely publicised, as he had many storylines lined up for him.

WalfordWill · 08-03-2005, 16:50

I think KH had potential but she blew it instantly axeing Den, I miss him, I really do and I never thought I would. Berridge should be kept locked up in the celler of the BBC building. Or she could be handcuffed to a photocopier and just be an office clerk, even that she'd mess up, the incompetent cah!

beee · 08-03-2005, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by oomonkeyboyoo

I agree it's very ambiguous. Sloppy writing, but this is the Mirror we're talking about.

That's very true

I think the best thing they can do about Den is forget him - leave him under the cellar floor and concentrate on making Phil's return plausible. As well as improving things all round. They've got quite a bit on their plate without having him come vaulting over the bar one more time

DenWatts · 08-03-2005, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalfordWill

I think KH had potential but she blew it instantly axeing Den, I miss him, I really do and I never thought I would. Berridge should be kept locked up in the celler of the BBC building. Or she could be handcuffed to a photocopier and just be an office clerk, even that she'd mess up, the incompetent cah!

PMSL

Nice one Will! Glad you didn't say buried under the cellar.

WalfordWill · 08-03-2005, 16:56

Well no if she were buried she wouldn't be able to see and hear everyone giving out about her, no this punishment is much better lol

Lippincote · 08-03-2005, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalfordWill

This would tie in with what Bob Ritchie suggested in his journal.

I was reading his journal yesterday and it all fits doesn't it. I hope he's going to keep updating it (last entry is a few weeks old), will be very interesting to see his comments on the latest regime.

TheSarge · 08-03-2005, 16:59

Mr Yorke’s downfall will be the Slater’s – If he seriously thinks people aren’t (if not already) sick of them - then he is clearly mistaken. I just hope he appreciates the fact that some times characters really do reach that point where they become boring, no matter how explosive their storylines become.

DenWatts · 08-03-2005, 16:59

I just had a mental image of Berridge having to sign on, and the Jobcentre advisor asked her what her previous work was.

When she told them she produced EE, the advisor tore into her and slapped her one, Peggy Mitchell style. "Get out of my Jobcentre, you cah!"

08-03-2005, 17:02

I agree with all Will said too

I blame Mal Young for all this anyone with half a brain could see Louise Berridge had no idea what she was doing yet it let her continue as if he did not care. At least with JY, TJ and KH2 who looks like just what EE needs.

DenWatts · 08-03-2005, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSarge

Mr Yorke’s downfall will be the Slater’s – If he seriously thinks people aren’t (if not already) sick of them - then he is clearly mistaken. I just hope he appreciates the fact that some times characters really do reach that point where they become boring, no matter how explosive their storylines become.

Agreed, although Charlie could have a possible storyline with Pat. Not sure how it would go down though, but it's possible. That would allow Big Mo to stay too, giving more friction between her and Pat.

And I like her dodgy deals. But get rid of the rest, definitely.

08-03-2005, 15:43	#1
Pop Princess Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,754	EastEnders scriptwriters blast producers and storylines http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...name_page.html SHALLOW, BANAL.. PROFOUNDLY DEPRESSING Mar 7 2005 - AND THAT'S WHAT THE SCRIPTWRITERS THINK! By Shaun Connolly EASTENDERS' own scriptwriters have branded plotlines in the crisis-hit soap as "shallow and banal". And they accused producers of insisting on improbable story twists that were "profoundly depressing, wearying and disheartening". Leaked minutes of a meeting on December 2 last year between writers' representatives and producers reveal open warfare. Jean Kitson, of the Personal Managers' Association, which represents scriptwriters, took notes of the showdown. She recorded that producers "accepted that right at the moment the situation is chaos". Ms Kitson wrote: "I made points clearly about writers feeling stories were melodramatic, banal and shallow and that many drafts that these led to were profoundly depressing wearying and disheartening." Writers heavily criticised bringing Dirty Den Watts back from the dead to see him murdered for real. BBC bosses rejected the attacks saying the show was "producer-led, not writer-led - and always has been". Just 6.3million watched an episode last week, the second lowest ever. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know why the BBC are rejecting the attacks. Sounds to me as if the writers are the only ones who know exactly what's going on. It says there was open warfare between writers and producers was revealed at a meeting on December 2 - suddenly KH's quick exit is making sense and is no surprise. I am glad these notes were released, if only to show the BBC and the new producer that the way it is right now is not what the writers think is good and we want a different direction. Last edited by Pop Princess : 08-03-2005 at 16:38.

08-03-2005, 16:11	#6
TheSarge Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,266	The actors blamed the Scriptwriters – who obviously had to take their direction from the Storyliners and are now blaming the Producers for the unbelievable and depressing storylines and I’m guessing they blame the Exec. Producers for being too autocratic (namely Louise Berridge) – who blamed Mal Young for not supporting her, when she needed his input and Mr Young couldn’t give a rats arse whose to blame - just as long as it’s not him . Whilst I blame Louise Berridge for taking on a job she couldn’t fulfil and The bosses at Elstree for letting the situation get so bad, before they intervened. Last edited by TheSarge : 08-03-2005 at 16:41.

08-03-2005, 15:46	#2
beee Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,235	It must be terrible to have to write a script when you know that the plot makes no sense - I can't imagine having to be creative and professional under that pressure. It is interesting to see these leaked minutes - if anything, they prove that John Yorke couldn't possibly have Den return yet again for fear of a real mutiny from the writers. I wonder what the writers think of Phil's return? Are they dreading it as much as I am?

08-03-2005, 16:00	#3
WalfordWill Banned User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Walford, E20 Posts: 6,561	This would tie in with what Bob Ritchie suggested in his journal. The writers have been given little or no control over what gets aired and what doesn't, basically they've been at the mercy of the likes of Louise Berridge for two years with bombastic storylines, weak characters and pathetic sensationalism. To go from Louise Berridge to Kathleen Hutchison who came in and tore up six months of their work and ordered them to redo it all over again, its no wonder the writers at EastEnders are pissed off, I would be too. Everything they said is true, but the show is Producer led, now, I have to say EastEnders up to the point of Louise Berridge, had some pretty good Producers i.e. Corinne Hollingworth, Matthew Robinson and then John Yorke. This worked for them as these Producers obviously knew what they were doing and Produced some great work. I reckon they hate Louise Berridge for her rubbish ideas but hate Kathleen Hutchison even more for making them pay for another Exec Producers mistakes, and really, who can blame them? Whoever decided or thought that Louise Berridge would be good for their flagship soap should be fired. And if they insist on having the show Producer led, at least hire some competent Producers who know what they're doing. Reading this and what BR was saying, it sounds as the writers were just glorified typists for the past couple of years, with little or no control over their work.

08-03-2005, 16:00	#4
Nope! Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Services: Sky, AOL Posts: 790	Whats wrong with Phil returning? He was going to anyway, he did only take a break and didn't leave for good, something people keep forgetting. He was going to return at some point and that point is now, accept it

08-03-2005, 16:17	#7
Caramel Banned User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,353	These posts have made interesting reading. Indeed, why did they let it go on so long before they intervened? I'm not keen on seeing Phil back, I feel he character has run its course.

08-03-2005, 16:22	#9
WalfordWill Banned User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Walford, E20 Posts: 6,561	The people at Elstree were probably having a great time under the lack of direction and general lack of ambition the soap had during Berridge's reign. "Ahh any ould shite will do, hey Louise you coming out on Saturday night? yeh, them episodes can wait, just doe the Is and cross the Ts and send it to Bob, he'll take care of it, come on lets go on the piss"

08-03-2005, 16:22	#10
DenWatts Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here in spirit! Services: SKY+, Sky Max Posts: 9,606	I agree with Will in post #3, but at least things are on the up. Read Bob's journal here: http://www.writersservices.com/mag/m...itchie_new.htm Note in particular the very last paragraph of the front page. For most of us enlightened ones who actually read this forum, it's old news the Mirror is peddling.

08-03-2005, 16:35	#11
Polly_Perkins Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,360	yes I think KH went in very heavy handed and wanted a quick turn around. I for one found Dens death very sloppy, just look at Corrie when you have a year to plan it. Thats not the writers fault and I for one was blameing them when infact Im glad they have come out about this because critics and the public alike have held the blame with the scriptwriters.

08-03-2005, 16:36	#12
DenWatts Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here in spirit! Services: SKY+, Sky Max Posts: 9,606	And sorry to be pedantic Pop Princess, but the Mirror story actually says the scriptwriters were upset to bring Den back, only for him to be killed off for real. Implying what we all know, that the new (old) regime did not want him killed off once resurrected.

08-03-2005, 16:50	#17
WalfordWill Banned User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Walford, E20 Posts: 6,561	I think KH had potential but she blew it instantly axeing Den, I miss him, I really do and I never thought I would. Berridge should be kept locked up in the celler of the BBC building. Or she could be handcuffed to a photocopier and just be an office clerk, even that she'd mess up, the incompetent cah!

08-03-2005, 16:56	#20
WalfordWill Banned User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Walford, E20 Posts: 6,561	Well no if she were buried she wouldn't be able to see and hear everyone giving out about her, no this punishment is much better lol

08-03-2005, 16:59	#22
TheSarge Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,266	Mr Yorke’s downfall will be the Slater’s – If he seriously thinks people aren’t (if not already) sick of them - then he is clearly mistaken. I just hope he appreciates the fact that some times characters really do reach that point where they become boring, no matter how explosive their storylines become.

08-03-2005, 17:02	#24
Trixie Posts: n/a	I agree with all Will said too I blame Mal Young for all this anyone with half a brain could see Louise Berridge had no idea what she was doing yet it let her continue as if he did not care. At least with JY, TJ and KH2 who looks like just what EE needs.