graduating from a top tier university, and graduating from a low tier university - General Discussion

unorthodox · 18-10-2005, 21:37

i was just wondering what are the chances of success for someone who graduates froma top university like oxford, and someone who graduates from a low tier university like thames valley. imagine if they've both got the same degrees like say a 2:1, will the oxford guy have a better chance of making it in life?

18-10-2005, 21:39

How do you anticipate finding an answer to that question?

Mr Poetic · 18-10-2005, 21:44

@ unorthodox, its so much more complex then that

Typically, the oxford cat uld get further because he went to a top uni and got the requisite ucas points in serious subjects

I ant speak for other sectors but with the top accountnacy firms, the oxford cat would be a shoe in for the PWC, JP Morgan type firms

However, alot of getting a good job ois about hustling and personlaity. Extra curricular activities, poise, confidence, RELEVANT WORK EXPERIENCE, It all counts

But to answer your question all things being equal, oxford guy would get further imo.

unorthodox · 18-10-2005, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamasan

How do you anticipate finding an answer to that question?

well its a question aimed at the intelligent people in here, sorry if you feel left out

unorthodox · 18-10-2005, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Poetic

@ unorthodox, its so much more complex then that

Typically, the oxford cat uld get further because he went to a top uni and got the requisite ucas points in serious subjects

I ant speak for other sectors but with the top accountnacy firms, the oxford cat would be a shoe in for the PWC, JP Morgan type firms

However, alot of getting a good job ois about hustling and personlaity. Extra curricular activities, poise, confidence, RELEVANT WORK EXPERIENCE, It all counts

But to answer your question all things being equal, oxford guy would get further imo.

so whats the point of going to all those crap unis then? seems like whatever grade you get it wont be be good enough.

18-10-2005, 23:34

The class system means that people from 'elite' universities led by Oxbridge, are probably more likely to land plum jobs in the city or the BBC or with blue chip companies and the like. Or people from privileged backgrounds or with the right connections.

Often I think the two tend to be linked, ie children from privileged backgrounds are more likely to go to expensive public schools and get the best education money can buy, and more likely to get into the 'top' unis than those from disadvantaged backgrounds.

They are also more likely to have the right social connections to get prestigious work experience placements.

Carmen Queasy · 18-10-2005, 23:57

Well, most "good" jobs require a degree anyway. There's obviously some which require better degrees. I was looking on prospects.ac.uk (I think it was this site) at graduate employers and most just need a 2.1 or 1st from any university. There was a few which used terms like "an upper second class honours degree from a top university", which probably means red bricks (?)

But, I think it's just common sense that a degree from a top university such as Oxford, Durham, Cambridge is worth more than one from an average university.

Like Eusebius implied - it's about who you know in many cases.

FifthColumnist · 19-10-2005, 02:16

It's also about what you did at uni and your work experience that counts.

Most jobs I've looked at have stated '2:1 or above in any discipline', but have also stated that a degree alone is not enough...and wanted some voluntary work, good work experience, or evidence of leadership/creativity through extra-curriculars, societies and student media etc.

Snobbery still, unfortunately, does exist between the 'red bricks' and the newer unis...at my uni (which happened to be a red brick), the local newer uni was always referred to as 'the poly' and the stigmas still sit with some employers.

sm9ai · 19-10-2005, 08:35

I went to a ex poly. (Which for my course, was better than most Red Brick Uni's anyway)

And I've been turned down from jobs because I didn't go to a Red Brick uni. But to be honest, if they do that I wouldn't want to work for them anyway.

And I think I've done reasonably well. I've done work for Companies like BT and Sony Playstation. So I don't think it effects it that much.

MapMan · 19-10-2005, 08:44

It's not really the university as much as it is the course you are on.

Some universities could be 'high up' and have a crap maths department wheras a university 'low down' might have an excellent maths department.

Universities aren't like schools where students at some point do all subjects - most students just do one subject. Credit where credit is due right?

Muggsy · 19-10-2005, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakesales

It's not really the university as much as it is the course you are on.

Some universities could be 'high up' and have a crap maths department wheras a university 'low down' might have an excellent maths department.

Universities aren't like schools where students at some point do all subjects - most students just do one subject. Credit where credit is due right?

Exactly. Ever worked in recruitment, trying to place an engineering science graduate from Oxford? As far as employers are concerned, such a degree doth not an electronics engineer make. Sheffield Hallam on the other hand.......

TH14 · 19-10-2005, 08:56

In this day in age going to university doesn't guarantee you a job anyway. Employers would prefer their staff to be experienced and they are often to recruit people who have been studying all their life and have no work experience. The fact that so many people have degrees now has made them lose a lot of their importance. Obviously if you got a 1st from a top tier university it would go down better with employers but I certainly don't think it ensures that you'll walk into a top job

McPhee · 19-10-2005, 08:58

You can be the brainiest so and so, and a genius, but if you haven't got the specific characteristics and qualities that your prospective employer is looking for, then you have no chance anyway. I'd just eliminate the whole idea of university preference from your mind to be honest.

(If you keep thinking negative thoughts, surely this will only serve to hold you back in some way.)

MapMan · 19-10-2005, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TH14

In this day in age going to university doesn't guarantee you a job anyway. Employers would prefer their staff to be experienced and they are often to recruit people who have been studying all their life and have no work experience. The fact that so many people have degrees now has made them lose a lot of their importance. Obviously if you got a 1st from a top tier university it would go down better with employers but I certainly don't think it ensures that you'll walk into a top job

I disagree - I think you are falling for the same trick as I mentioned above. It depends on the course. Some industries are crying out for graduates others - like the IT industry - are saturated.

I walked straight out of university and straight into a graduate job last year - they needed graduates and I fitted their requirements.

19-10-2005, 09:08

Like others have said, it depends on the course and ultimately jobs will depend on your character, experience, willingness to learn, going that extra mile, good contacts etc.

MapMan · 19-10-2005, 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by millie-the-cat

...good contacts etc.

"It's not WHAT you know but WHO you know2 - exactly!

I can't help feeling a tad guilty about my first graduate job - I beat Professors, Doctors and experienced people - mainly because the guy interviewing me once lived in the exact same house!

19-10-2005, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakesales

"It's not WHAT you know but WHO you know2 - exactly!

I can't help feeling a tad guilty about my first graduate job - I beat Professors, Doctors and experienced people - mainly because the guy interviewing me once lived in the exact same house!

Ditto. I wouldn't be in the job I'm in without contacts. While I feel slightly guilty, I also think that without me getting out there and meeting people in the field I wanted to work in, I wouldn't be where I am.

I would advise anyone who wanted to work in a particular field to go to any conferences, events, seminars, courses, exhibitions etc and just NETWORK!!

Astaroth · 19-10-2005, 09:15

I think there is some difficulty in seperating the theory from the reality on this question.

Whilst I am sure that there are some examples, but in the majority of cases, if you have the academic qualifications/ ability to go to the likes of Oxford why would you then go and read the same subject at an ex-polly tech?

From personal experience I have seen that people are firstly graded as being at the required experience/ education level (eg 2.1 and above) and then they are all put in a preferential order based on a number of criteria such as which university they went to. We will then call people in for interview at a rate of about 10 per vacancy until we have enough successful candidates.

We do not look for any specific qualification so it is just the over all "standard" of the person we are looking at. There are obviously careers out there were specific education requirements exist and here some none red brick universities are recognised as being better than red brick but if you are the "oxford" class candidate you would be very much limiting your future options by going to a university which has the worlds best reputation on thermo-dynamics of molten glass but is unheard of in any other field.

Education -v- experience is an old arguement and these things tend to be cyclical. When I was considering doing a MCSE qualification every single IT job advert I saw going said you must be MCSE qualified but then 2 years later not a single one mentioned it but all employers wanted 3 years+ of relevant work experience.

At the end of the day selection processes are always very dependant on the person who has the ultimate authority to say yay or nay to your application. Unless you know exactly who they are (and what mood they will be in) there is no way to get into a possition to walk into any job - you can just tip the scales in your favour.

trash80 · 19-10-2005, 09:19

top jobs yes, most jobs it doesn't matter what the uni was

MapMan · 19-10-2005, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by trash80

top jobs yes, most jobs it doesn't matter what the uni was

Agreed, I went to both an "ex-poly" (come on guys - they stopped being poly's 13 years ago!!!!!) and a red-brick. The "ex-poly" was far better than the red-brick and I got a graduate job straight out of the "ex-poly".

I think when people compare Oxbridge to "ex-poly's" it is an unfair comparison. Oxbridge to ANY university is an unfair comparison. They are in a completely different league.

kristie567 · 19-10-2005, 09:29

Although this is the argument for choosing between a "top" university and a "local" university, I doubt this situation occurs in reality very much at all.

sm9ai · 19-10-2005, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakesales

Agreed, I went to both an "ex-poly" (come on guys - they stopped being poly's 13 years ago!!!!!) and a red-brick. The "ex-poly" was far better than the red-brick and I got a graduate job straight out of the "ex-poly".

I think when people compare Oxbridge to "ex-poly's" it is an unfair comparison. Oxbridge to ANY university is an unfair comparison. They are in a completely different league.

I must agree. At my old work there was grads from New Universities and Red Brick unis.

And to be honest the Red Brick grad had an air of snobbyness but generally could not get the task done as well as the New Universities Grads.

I think New Universities are more inline with recruiters.

HOFF · 19-10-2005, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by unorthodox

i was just wondering what are the chances of success for someone who graduates froma top university like oxford, and someone who graduates from a low tier university like thames valley. imagine if they've both got the same degrees like say a 2:1, will the oxford guy have a better chance of making it in life?

Depends what you mean by "making it in life"...but if you want a general answer for a general question, then 'yes'.

But you knew that already.

Vanilla Velvet · 19-10-2005, 10:33

Due to finances a lot of students are also choosing were they can afford to go regardless whether the University is a red brick or not. I have noticed a lot of students from the have moved up North because it cheaper and many are choosing to stay locally, ie live with parents.

I am one of those students who decided due to family and finance to stay locally.

18-10-2005, 21:37	#1
unorthodox Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 804 Blog Entries: 4	graduating from a top tier university, and graduating from a low tier university i was just wondering what are the chances of success for someone who graduates froma top university like oxford, and someone who graduates from a low tier university like thames valley. imagine if they've both got the same degrees like say a 2:1, will the oxford guy have a better chance of making it in life?

18-10-2005, 21:39	#2
mamasan Posts: n/a	How do you anticipate finding an answer to that question?

18-10-2005, 21:44	#3
Mr Poetic Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,533	@ unorthodox, its so much more complex then that Typically, the oxford cat uld get further because he went to a top uni and got the requisite ucas points in serious subjects I ant speak for other sectors but with the top accountnacy firms, the oxford cat would be a shoe in for the PWC, JP Morgan type firms However, alot of getting a good job ois about hustling and personlaity. Extra curricular activities, poise, confidence, RELEVANT WORK EXPERIENCE, It all counts But to answer your question all things being equal, oxford guy would get further imo.

18-10-2005, 23:34	#6
Eusebius Posts: n/a	The class system means that people from 'elite' universities led by Oxbridge, are probably more likely to land plum jobs in the city or the BBC or with blue chip companies and the like. Or people from privileged backgrounds or with the right connections. Often I think the two tend to be linked, ie children from privileged backgrounds are more likely to go to expensive public schools and get the best education money can buy, and more likely to get into the 'top' unis than those from disadvantaged backgrounds. They are also more likely to have the right social connections to get prestigious work experience placements.

18-10-2005, 23:57	#7
Carmen Queasy Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Gender: Male Location: Manchester Services: Sky+. Sky Broadband. XBox 360. Posts: 23,648 Blog Entries: 1	Well, most "good" jobs require a degree anyway. There's obviously some which require better degrees. I was looking on prospects.ac.uk (I think it was this site) at graduate employers and most just need a 2.1 or 1st from any university. There was a few which used terms like "an upper second class honours degree from a top university", which probably means red bricks (?) But, I think it's just common sense that a degree from a top university such as Oxford, Durham, Cambridge is worth more than one from an average university. Like Eusebius implied - it's about who you know in many cases.

19-10-2005, 02:16	#8
FifthColumnist Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Services: Telewest Broadband and cable Posts: 127	It's also about what you did at uni and your work experience that counts. Most jobs I've looked at have stated '2:1 or above in any discipline', but have also stated that a degree alone is not enough...and wanted some voluntary work, good work experience, or evidence of leadership/creativity through extra-curriculars, societies and student media etc. Snobbery still, unfortunately, does exist between the 'red bricks' and the newer unis...at my uni (which happened to be a red brick), the local newer uni was always referred to as 'the poly' and the stigmas still sit with some employers.

19-10-2005, 08:35	#9
sm9ai Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Services: Toppy TF5800PVR, Panasonic DVD Recorder, 2 meg ADSL Posts: 989	I went to a ex poly. (Which for my course, was better than most Red Brick Uni's anyway) And I've been turned down from jobs because I didn't go to a Red Brick uni. But to be honest, if they do that I wouldn't want to work for them anyway. And I think I've done reasonably well. I've done work for Companies like BT and Sony Playstation. So I don't think it effects it that much.

19-10-2005, 08:44	#10
MapMan Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brentwood, Essex Services: Sky Digital, BT Broadband Posts: 1,463	It's not really the university as much as it is the course you are on. Some universities could be 'high up' and have a crap maths department wheras a university 'low down' might have an excellent maths department. Universities aren't like schools where students at some point do all subjects - most students just do one subject. Credit where credit is due right?

19-10-2005, 08:56	#12
TH14 Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 7,599	In this day in age going to university doesn't guarantee you a job anyway. Employers would prefer their staff to be experienced and they are often to recruit people who have been studying all their life and have no work experience. The fact that so many people have degrees now has made them lose a lot of their importance. Obviously if you got a 1st from a top tier university it would go down better with employers but I certainly don't think it ensures that you'll walk into a top job

19-10-2005, 08:58	#13
McPhee Banned User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bag End Posts: 3,292	You can be the brainiest so and so, and a genius, but if you haven't got the specific characteristics and qualities that your prospective employer is looking for, then you have no chance anyway. I'd just eliminate the whole idea of university preference from your mind to be honest. (If you keep thinking negative thoughts, surely this will only serve to hold you back in some way.)

19-10-2005, 09:08	#15
millie-the-cat Posts: n/a	Like others have said, it depends on the course and ultimately jobs will depend on your character, experience, willingness to learn, going that extra mile, good contacts etc.

19-10-2005, 09:15	#18
Astaroth Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Services: Sky+, Demon ADSL, Denon AVR 2805, Panny TX32PD30, Mission Elegant Posts: 3,423	I think there is some difficulty in seperating the theory from the reality on this question. Whilst I am sure that there are some examples, but in the majority of cases, if you have the academic qualifications/ ability to go to the likes of Oxford why would you then go and read the same subject at an ex-polly tech? From personal experience I have seen that people are firstly graded as being at the required experience/ education level (eg 2.1 and above) and then they are all put in a preferential order based on a number of criteria such as which university they went to. We will then call people in for interview at a rate of about 10 per vacancy until we have enough successful candidates. We do not look for any specific qualification so it is just the over all "standard" of the person we are looking at. There are obviously careers out there were specific education requirements exist and here some none red brick universities are recognised as being better than red brick but if you are the "oxford" class candidate you would be very much limiting your future options by going to a university which has the worlds best reputation on thermo-dynamics of molten glass but is unheard of in any other field. Education -v- experience is an old arguement and these things tend to be cyclical. When I was considering doing a MCSE qualification every single IT job advert I saw going said you must be MCSE qualified but then 2 years later not a single one mentioned it but all employers wanted 3 years+ of relevant work experience. At the end of the day selection processes are always very dependant on the person who has the ultimate authority to say yay or nay to your application. Unless you know exactly who they are (and what mood they will be in) there is no way to get into a possition to walk into any job - you can just tip the scales in your favour.

19-10-2005, 09:19	#19
trash80 Banned User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: B'ham / Metro Manila Services: Telewest TV, Phone & BB, DAB Posts: 20,752	top jobs yes, most jobs it doesn't matter what the uni was

19-10-2005, 09:29	#21
kristie567 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 520	Although this is the argument for choosing between a "top" university and a "local" university, I doubt this situation occurs in reality very much at all.

19-10-2005, 10:33	#24
Vanilla Velvet Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: I have moved Services: Freeview Posts: 2,591	Due to finances a lot of students are also choosing were they can afford to go regardless whether the University is a red brick or not. I have noticed a lot of students from the have moved up North because it cheaper and many are choosing to stay locally, ie live with parents. I am one of those students who decided due to family and finance to stay locally.