[Paul252]

Apologies if there's already a thread but I couldn't find one.

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Ofcom Update FM Licensing Timetable

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radio/ifi/rb.../lapr/timt0305

Ofcom have announced a further five new FM licences to be advertised next year.

However, there will not now be a new licence for Stoke-on-Trent, as detailed frequency planning investigations have concluded that there is no suitable frequency to support such a licence.

The timetable is now:


December - Hull/Newry


2006

January - Andover

Feburary - Exeter

March - Bristol

April - Liverpool

May - Perth

June - Preston/Leyland/Chorley

July - Manchester/Aberdeen

[kev]

Glad to see my home city (Preston) is finally being awarded it's own station

It's also rather poor that Manchester only has 9 FM stations (soon to be 10), while Prague, which is of a similar size (population wide) has more than 20 (my mobile managed to fill it's auto store menu at 103.7, with some more stations left on the band!)

[Westward]

This point always used to get raised on the Radio 1 Call the Controller shows with Johnny Beerling (remember them). Every year someone would ask why US & Canadian cities have so many more stations than British cities of a similar size.

The reason given was the number of national FM stations that we have compared with other countries, each one consuming 22 frequencies. I wonder though, do we have more national FMers than countries like France or Italy, for example, or do they just use the spectrum more efficiently?

[smorris]

Originally Posted by Westward

The reason given was the number of national FM stations that we have compared with other countries, each one consuming 22 frequencies. I wonder though, do we have more national FMers than countries like France or Italy, for example, or do they just use the spectrum more efficiently?

You wondered right - at least partly. Certainly back at that time, the "lack of space for new stations" was largely a political thing - netiher the BBC nor IBA were particularly keen on competition at the time.

Five is not a large number of national networks, especially when you consider that one of them (Classic FM) doesn't actually have 100% coverage. It's true that our FM band is pretty much full, but the real problem is that the basic design of the networks was made long before accurate planning techniques (using computers) were possible.

The BBC networks in particular are enormously wasteful of frequency space, since it simply wasn't a consideration at the time.

I'm not sure we'd want to emulate the anarchic situation in Italy, though - listening over there on the move is almost impossible due to the insane levels of interference to almost all channels.

[woodysdad]

Originally Posted by smorris

You wondered right - at least partly. Certainly back at that time, the "lack of space for new stations" was largely a political thing - netiher the BBC nor IBA were particularly keen on competition at the time.

Five is not a large number of national networks, especially when you consider that one of them (Classic FM) doesn't actually have 100% coverage. It's true that our FM band is pretty much full, but the real problem is that the basic design of the networks was made long before accurate planning techniques (using computers) were possible.

The BBC networks in particular are enormously wasteful of frequency space, since it simply wasn't a consideration at the time.

I'm not sure we'd want to emulate the anarchic situation in Italy, though - listening over there on the move is almost impossible due to the insane levels of interference to almost all channels.

I KNOW it wasn't FM, but in the days of the pirates (the 60s) we were told there wasn't room for the dozen or so stations on the air. How many am stations are on air at present. I seem to recall Hughie Green (and I mean this sincerely folks!) stating the case for land based stations and being more or less called a freak. I think that's one of the reasons he left Britain!

[Newsbuff]

I think the BBC still don;t welcome competition and try to restrict space for other stations, or that is what they have been accused of.
Would be nice to see Stoke on Trent given another licence, or Stafford, which is a large county town with no stations at all.

[4-4-2]

So why does Manchester get another licence when they have just given one out to GCap's XFM Manchester.

I would love to see another station here in Leicester but I suppose BBC Leicester, Leicester Sound, Heart 106, Sabras, BBC Asian Network are enough....

[North_Sea FM]

Originally Posted by Paul252

The timetable is now:
December - Hull/Newry

2006

January - Andover

Feburary - Exeter

March - Bristol

April - Liverpool

May - Perth

June - Preston/Leyland/Chorley

July - Manchester/Aberdeen

Why on earth they think Bristol, Liverpool & Manchester need another station is beyond me? Bristol has GWR, Star & Vibe, Liverpool have City FM, Juice & The Rocket, Manchester have Key103, Galaxy & I can't think if there is a 3rd one?

But surely in order for a station to make money it needs to be in an area which actually needs another service, yet again I see that Milton Keynes & Bedford are not listed, this region has been crying our for more listener choice for years!

[RobbieUK]

I will be interested to see what Liverpool ends up with. We have Radio City and Juice which are pretty much the same, though City do appear to be changing direction play a LOT more variety. The Rocket is not available Liverpool wide, it targets east Merseyside and can only be recieved in the city centre depending on the weather, plus we have Radio Merseyside, but thats for the old dears!

Originally Posted by North_Sea FM

Why on earth they think Bristol, Liverpool & Manchester need another station is beyond me? Bristol has GWR, Star & Vibe, Liverpool have City FM, Juice & The Rocket, Manchester have Key103, Galaxy & I can't think if there is a 3rd one?

a. Fequencies are available in these areas, while they are not available in other places, such as Leicester, Bedford and Milton Keynes.

b. It's interesting that you're usually moaning about 'lack of choice'. Now you're whingeing because some people are going to get the chance to have further listening choice but, in your usual selfish manner, because YOU don't benefit it's now wrong.

[North_Sea FM]

Originally Posted by Parka

a. Fequencies are available in these areas, while they are not available in other places, such as Leicester, Bedford and Milton Keynes.

b. It's interesting that you're usually moaning about 'lack of choice'. Now you're whingeing because some people are going to get the chance to have further listening choice but, in your usual selfish manner, because YOU don't benefit it's now wrong.

Now take a chill pill Parka, don't throw your toys out of your pram, there are plenty of clear frequencies in the Milton Keynes area, I was stating the fact that, that area never seems to get a look in.

As for choice, most of these new licences aim to play music from the last 4 decades, with local news & information, which is what is already on offer in those areas, so where is the benefit there?

I don't live in that area anyway, so there's nothing selfish about that, I just know from experience that Milton Keynes, Bedford & Nothampton are radio 'dead zones' with only 1 commercial radio station on offer, whilst most of the areas advertised already have more than 1.

[LostObsessive]

btw, The Rocket doesn't cover Liverpool. It just claims to cover 'Merseyside' - when in fact, it doesn't officially.

Originally Posted by North_Sea FM

...there are plenty of clear frequencies in the Milton Keynes area, I was stating the fact that, that area never seems to get a look in.

Ofcom would appear to disagree - as their document outlining the future of FM licensing states:

The advertisement of all of the areas identified in this document (whether or not they are aggregated in certain cases) would effectively exhaust the supply of FM frequencies usable for further ILR services in the metropolitan areas of the UK, save for a very limited amount of possible future small-scale development.

This would also be the case in most of the non-metropolitan areas around London, the West and East Midlands, East Anglia, North-West England and Yorkshire, the South and West of England, and the central belt of Scotland.

Elsewhere, further development of smaller, or in some cases medium-scale, services would remain technically feasible.

[North_Sea FM]

Originally Posted by Parka

Ofcom would appear to disagree - as their document outlining the future of FM licensing states:

In M.K., Northampton & Bedford 105.1, 107.1, 107.6 & 107.9 could all be used and cause no interference to any other services.

Shame Vibe FM's East of England's coverage area couldn't be extended 30 miles further West, this format would really go down well in Milton Keynes.

[allan66]

Still nothing for West Cumbria, CFM is getting more "cheesy" everyday.

We were one of the last areas to get ILR in 1995, and need more choice in the area.

*Im sure frequency allocation can't be a problem here!*

[Phil 2804]

Originally Posted by Westward

This point always used to get raised on the Radio 1 Call the Controller shows with Johnny Beerling (remember them). Every year someone would ask why US & Canadian cities have so many more stations than British cities of a similar size.

The reason given was the number of national FM stations that we have compared with other countries, each one consuming 22 frequencies. I wonder though, do we have more national FMers than countries like France or Italy, for example, or do they just use the spectrum more efficiently?

I well remember those, one of the bizarre things about the ''national licence' argument was that back then even Radio 1 couldn't get onto FM. Its weird to think that the nations then biggest radio station had to wait till 1987 to get its first dedicated FM licence.

[ALAN306]

Still no station for Stoke.
Just Signal and an access station, no regional station

[atkins]

What on earth is the point of more FM stations,
now we have DAB.

[Phil 2804]

Will be interesting to see who applies for the Aberdeen licence. For the first time ever Northsound will have real local competition in their home territory. Can't wait.

[Paul252]

Originally Posted by atkins

What on earth is the point of more FM stations,
now we have DAB.

You might have but the other 95% of the poulation don't own a DAB set and a lot of them couldn't get reception even if they did.

A local DAB only station in somewhere like Liverpool would probably not get enough listeners to make it finacially viable at the moment.

[NonStopPlay]

LOL !! why does Andover need a station??

[bwilliams]

next they will be handing out licences in the shetland islands

[reindeer]

Originally Posted by bwilliams

next they will be handing out licences in the shetland islands

There's already a station broadcasting in Shetland in the form of SIBC.

[allan66]

Further to my recent posting on this subject (ie: Cumbria) giving the fact that frequencies can't be a problem for the area, its also fact that when the "North West" regional licences were advertised Cumbria was not included in them!!
does it then come down to it being commercially viable revenue wise in this area?
does anyone have any responses on this
cheers

[mikeydb]

Originally Posted by atkins

What on earth is the point of more FM stations,
now we have DAB.

DAB has other issues to get over like coverage and bandwidth restrictions in addition to the lack of reasonably priced equipment for mobile reception, I think there is one DAB car radio in the Argos catalogue for example , and that costs around £300, while the rest are still AM/FM. There have been cheaper models and alternatives available but these seem to have been discontinued, or in the case of alternatives like dab adapter devices, are available but they aren't as simple to install as they make it sound and still need decent signals to work, these aren't the best way to get dab in the car.

Also, many smaller local stations simply don't have access to the local multiplexes, they're either too expensive or are full with other services.