[Faeden]

Hi all

First of all I don’t believe in "The Devil or "Satan" just for the record, and this is not an anti Christian thread. I’m not saying I believe what I am asking, but just wondering if anyone else can see my reasoning?

One of my favourite children’s stories when I was a kid was 3 Billy goats gruff. I read it just now, and a thought occurred to me. Is there a hidden moral to this story? Being that the good characters in the story are goats, and the bad character is the Troll that lives under the bridge, and that its the Troll that gives permission on who can pass into the green pastures. "The Devil" in Christian mythology is half goat half human, and was cast out of heaven because he did not agree with the Christian Gods plan, could it be that the hidden meaning to this tale is that the troll is the Christian God that is mean, and wont let anyone into heaven (Or in this case the green pastures) Could this story be secretly symbolising "Satan" wining a battle with a cruel God? Letting all who pass though it over into heaven with the lambs of God (Or the green pastures to graze like the lambs do)? Satan is supposed to be the great deceiver and trickster and the goats trick the troll in this story a classic.

Also its a fact that children’s stories have been used to teach them things with hidden messages in them. Another is little red riding hood (a propaganda story) Written by Christians of the time, in order to slander Paganism as being evil. The idea was the big bad wolf in nature in the woods, symbolising the Pagan, as Pagans where said to be taken over by the spirits of ferocious wolves. The original Little red riding hood is a lot more graphic than todays watered down version the wolf actually rapes little red riding hood when it was first written.

Little red riding hood was a scare story for Christian children, to show them what can happen if a good Christian girl strays from the path, the big bad Devil (pagan) in the forest will get you.


Here is the story 3 billy goats gruff if you have never seen or heard it before.


Once upon a time there were three Billy Goats called Gruff.

In the winter they lived in a barn in the valley.

When spring came they longed to travel up to the mountains to eat the lush sweet grass.

On their way to the mountains the three Billy Goats Gruff had to cross a rushing river.

But there was only one bridge across it, made of wooden planks.

And underneath the bridge there lived a terrible, ugly, one-eyed troll.

Nobody was allowed to cross the bridge without the troll's permission and nobody ever got permission.

He always ate them up.

The smallest Billy Goat Gruff was first to reach the bridge.

Trippity-trop, trippity-trop went his little hooves as he trotted over the wooden planks.

Ting-tang, ting-tang went the little bell round his neck.

" Who's that trotting over my bridge ? " Growled the troll from under the bridge.

"Billy Goat Gruff," squeaked the smallest goat in his little voice. "I'm only going up to the mountain to eat the sweet spring grass."

Oh no, you're not!" said the troll.
"I'm going to eat you for breakfast!"

" Oh no, please Mr. Troll, " pleaded the goat.
" I'm only the smallest Billy Goat Gruff. I'm much too tiny for you to eat, and I wouldn't taste very good.
Why don't you wait for my brother, the second Billy Goat Gruff ? He's much bigger than me and would be much more tasty. "

The troll did not want to waste his time on a little goat if there was a bigger and better one to eat.

"All right, you can cross my bridge," he grunted.
"Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back!"

So the smallest Billy Goat Gruff skipped across to the other side.

The troll did not have to wait long for the second Billy Goat Gruff.

Clip-clop, clip-clop went his hooves as he clattered over the wooden planks.

Ding-dong, ding-dong went the bell around his neck.

"Who's that clattering across my bridge?" screamed the troll, suddenly appearing from under the planks.

" Billy Goat Gruff, " said the second goat in his middle-sized voice.
"I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lovely spring grass."

"Oh no you're not!" said the troll.
"I'm going to eat you for breakfast."

" Oh, no, please, " said the second goat.
" I may be bigger than the first Billy Goat Gruff, but I'm much smaller than my brother, the third Billy Goat Gruff.
Why don't you wait for him? He would be much more of a meal than me. "

The troll was getting very hungry, but he did not want to waste his appetite on a middle-sized goat if there was an even bigger one to come.

" All right, you can cross my bridge," he rumbled.
" Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back ! "

So the middle-sized Billy Goat Gruff scampered across to the other side.

The troll did not have to wait long for the third Billy Goat Gruff.

Tromp-tramp, tromp-tramp went his hooves as he stomped across the wooden planks.

Bong-bang, bong-bang went the big bell round his neck.

" Who's that stomping over my bridge?" roared the troll, resting his chin on his hands.

" Billy Goat Gruff, " said the third goat in a deep voice.
" I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lush spring grass. "

" Oh no you're not, " said the troll as he clambered up on to the bridge.
" I'm going to eat you for breakfast ! "

" That's what you think, " said the Biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

Then he lowered his horns, galloped along the bridge and butted the ugly troll.

Up, up, up went the troll into the air... then down, down, down into the rushing river below.

He disappeared below the swirling waters, and was gone.

So much for his breakfast, thought the biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

" Now what about mine ! "

And he walked in triumph over the bridge to join his two brothers on the mountain pastures.

From then on everyone could cross the bridge whenever they liked - thanks to the
Three Billy Goats Gruff.

All the best
Faeden

[Examinus]

I always thought it was about goats.

Seriously though, I suppose all of these stories have a meaning that can be interpreted any number of ways.

[Faeden]

Originally Posted by Examinus

I always thought it was about goats.

Seriously though, I suppose all of these stories have a meaning that can be interpreted any number of ways.

It is about goats, but the story reminded me of Satan’s rebellion against a bully type God, and being banned from paradise, and how Satan is supposed to be a trickster, and is constantly trying to get one over on God. And Satan is half goat. Apparently.

[swirlygirl]

You need to get out more

[mb@2day]

One of my favourite childrens stories when I was young. I cant really see the interpretation you've come up with though.

It didnt really have much of a moral in my view.

I wish internet forum trolls could be dealt with in a similar way and so easily.

[jessca]

Originally Posted by mb@2day

One of my favourite childrens stories when I was young. I cant really see the interpretation you've come up with though.

It didnt really have much of a moral in my view.

I wish internet forum trolls could be dealt with in a similar way and so easily.

I loved that story too, mainly because it was my first starring role - as 'The Troll Under The Bridge' in Leverington Playschool's 1983 sold-out performance. I got to deliver the killer line 'Who's that trip-trapping over my bridge ?'

Originally Posted by Faeden

Hi all

First of all I don’t believe in "The Devil or "Satan" just for the record, and this is not an anti Christian thread. I’m not saying I believe what I am asking, but just wondering if anyone else can see my reasoning?

One of my favourite children’s stories when I was a kid was 3 Billy goats gruff. I read it just now, and a thought occurred to me. Is there a hidden moral to this story? Being that the good characters in the story are goats, and the bad character is the Troll that lives under the bridge, and that its the Troll that gives permission on who can pass into the green pastures. "The Devil" in Christian mythology is half goat half human, and was cast out of heaven because he did not agree with the Christian Gods plan, could it be that the hidden meaning to this tale is that the troll is the Christian God that is mean, and wont let anyone into heaven (Or in this case the green pastures) Could this story be secretly symbolising "Satan" wining a battle with a cruel God? Letting all who pass though it over into heaven with the lambs of God (Or the green pastures to graze like the lambs do)? Satan is supposed to be the great deceiver and trickster and the goats trick the troll in this story a classic.

Also its a fact that children’s stories have been used to teach them things with hidden messages in them. Another is little red riding hood (a propaganda story) Written by Christians of the time, in order to slander Paganism as being evil. The idea was the big bad wolf in nature in the woods, symbolising the Pagan, as Pagans where said to be taken over by the spirits of ferocious wolves. The original Little red riding hood is a lot more graphic than todays watered down version the wolf actually rapes little red riding hood when it was first written.

Little red riding hood was a scare story for Christian children, to show them what can happen if a good Christian girl strays from the path, the big bad Devil (pagan) in the forest will get you.


Here is the story 3 billy goats gruff if you have never seen or heard it before.


Once upon a time there were three Billy Goats called Gruff.

In the winter they lived in a barn in the valley.

When spring came they longed to travel up to the mountains to eat the lush sweet grass.

On their way to the mountains the three Billy Goats Gruff had to cross a rushing river.

But there was only one bridge across it, made of wooden planks.

And underneath the bridge there lived a terrible, ugly, one-eyed troll.

Nobody was allowed to cross the bridge without the troll's permission and nobody ever got permission.

He always ate them up.

The smallest Billy Goat Gruff was first to reach the bridge.

Trippity-trop, trippity-trop went his little hooves as he trotted over the wooden planks.

Ting-tang, ting-tang went the little bell round his neck.

" Who's that trotting over my bridge ? " Growled the troll from under the bridge.

"Billy Goat Gruff," squeaked the smallest goat in his little voice. "I'm only going up to the mountain to eat the sweet spring grass."

Oh no, you're not!" said the troll.
"I'm going to eat you for breakfast!"

" Oh no, please Mr. Troll, " pleaded the goat.
" I'm only the smallest Billy Goat Gruff. I'm much too tiny for you to eat, and I wouldn't taste very good.
Why don't you wait for my brother, the second Billy Goat Gruff ? He's much bigger than me and would be much more tasty. "

The troll did not want to waste his time on a little goat if there was a bigger and better one to eat.

"All right, you can cross my bridge," he grunted.
"Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back!"

So the smallest Billy Goat Gruff skipped across to the other side.

The troll did not have to wait long for the second Billy Goat Gruff.

Clip-clop, clip-clop went his hooves as he clattered over the wooden planks.

Ding-dong, ding-dong went the bell around his neck.

"Who's that clattering across my bridge?" screamed the troll, suddenly appearing from under the planks.

" Billy Goat Gruff, " said the second goat in his middle-sized voice.
"I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lovely spring grass."

"Oh no you're not!" said the troll.
"I'm going to eat you for breakfast."

" Oh, no, please, " said the second goat.
" I may be bigger than the first Billy Goat Gruff, but I'm much smaller than my brother, the third Billy Goat Gruff.
Why don't you wait for him? He would be much more of a meal than me. "

The troll was getting very hungry, but he did not want to waste his appetite on a middle-sized goat if there was an even bigger one to come.

" All right, you can cross my bridge," he rumbled.
" Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back ! "

So the middle-sized Billy Goat Gruff scampered across to the other side.

The troll did not have to wait long for the third Billy Goat Gruff.

Tromp-tramp, tromp-tramp went his hooves as he stomped across the wooden planks.

Bong-bang, bong-bang went the big bell round his neck.

" Who's that stomping over my bridge?" roared the troll, resting his chin on his hands.

" Billy Goat Gruff, " said the third goat in a deep voice.
" I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lush spring grass. "

" Oh no you're not, " said the troll as he clambered up on to the bridge.
" I'm going to eat you for breakfast ! "

" That's what you think, " said the Biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

Then he lowered his horns, galloped along the bridge and butted the ugly troll.

Up, up, up went the troll into the air... then down, down, down into the rushing river below.

He disappeared below the swirling waters, and was gone.

So much for his breakfast, thought the biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

" Now what about mine ! "

And he walked in triumph over the bridge to join his two brothers on the mountain pastures.

From then on everyone could cross the bridge whenever they liked - thanks to the
Three Billy Goats Gruff.

All the best
Faeden

Nursery Riddims have hidden meanings.I suggest one book.
It is called.Myths,Legends and something .It is a book with strange tales of British folklore and hauntings and various other amazing facts or fiction.One of Wookeys Hole and another of the Giants that once walked on our soil.

[swirlygirl]

That really needed quoting to fill up the page again

[malaikah]

I laughed at the Tweenies today; Max told the tale of Red Riding Hood; only, when she got to Grandma's house and the wolf revealed who he was, all he said was: 'Please may I have some of those cakes?" And then, the door burst open, and it was... Grandma! Who said something like "Lets all have tea"

Bella did say "Thats strange! I thought the wolf ate Grandma"

[Channel Hopper]

Originally Posted by malaikah

Bella did say "Thats strange! I thought the wolf ate Grandma"

Thats another channel that young people really shouldn't have access to.