Issue with shared satellite dish on apartment block - Sky+

mrkelly · 25-04-2006, 09:24

Hi,

A friend of mine has just received the keys to a nice two-year old apartment. As with many newer apartment buildings, the developers have helpfully stuck a big dish on the wall outside, and wired up each flat. Unfortunately, these guys are several years behind current technology and each flat has only one satellite connection so it's no use for Sky+ at present. He's already been told that he's not allowed to put up another dish so he's asked me to investigate.

The dish outside has what looks like a quad LNB - there's definitely only 4 wires heading up the wall into the roofspace of his apartment. Now, I might be confused here, but from reading around, there's only 4 combinations of polarisation and frequency band that the LNB works with (sorry if these terms aren't quite right.) There's 6 apartments in this building, served by a quad LNB, so I'm presuming there's some sort of distribution box in the roofspace. The Sky box in each flat requests a certain combination of polarisation/frequency, and the distribution box would route the appropriate signal from the LNB to the Sky box. This is the only way I can think of to serve 6 independent Sky boxes from a quad LNB.

If this is the case, then if there was a free spot on the distribution point, or it could be replaced with something bigger, then I could replace the faceplate in the living room with a twin satellite version (it currently is satellite and standard TV aerial, so there's two cables there.) I could then wire up to the distribution point, and he's got two satellite connections for Sky+.

Am I making up this distribution point hardware or do they exist? Obviously it might only have 6 connections, but he could always beg one of a neighbour who's not currently using it, or we could get the management company to replace it with a larger (Sky+ friendlier) one. Alternatively the point might have surplus connections which we could tap into.

Apologies for the long-winded essay, any advice from you guys would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

mrkelly

Rustpot · 25-04-2006, 09:35

You need to check the LNB. It could be an Octo LNB with 8 points and only four apartments are actually wired.

Alternatively you could suggest(or even pay for an Octo) on the basis that you would get an extra feed.

It is unlikely that there is a distribution box in the loft other than for terrestial/DAB/FM etc. as you cannot split the SKY signal and requires typically an uninterupted run to the digi box.

ianathuth · 25-04-2006, 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustpot

You need to check the LNB. It could be an Octo LNB with 8 points and only four apartments are actually wired.

Alternatively you could suggest(or even pay for an Octo) on the basis that you would get an extra feed.

It is unlikely that there is a distribution box in the loft other than for terrestial/DAB/FM etc. as you cannot split the SKY signal and requires typically an uninterupted run to the digi box.

There are thousands of communal systems installed in blocks of flats, hotels, hospitals, etc. They DO use distribution boxes fed from four cables connected to the dish.

Sky have now got a shared dish service available. Have a look at http://www.sky.com/skycom/article/0,...217975,00.html

mrkelly · 25-04-2006, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianathuth

There are thousands of communal systems installed in blocks of flats, hotels, hospitals, etc. They DO use distribution boxes fed from four cables connected to the dish.

Sky have now got a shared dish service available. Have a look at http://www.sky.com/skycom/article/0,...217975,00.html

Thanks for that link. The installation has been done, so while that article is interesting it's probably a bit late. It does convince me that there is a distribution point up there, so I guess the next step is to get into the roofspace, see what sort of hardware is already there, and what we can feasibly do with it.

Anyone got any links to the sort of hardware we're talking about?

Cheers,

mrkelly

ianathuth · 25-04-2006, 10:50

Communal distribution systems use quattro LNB's rather than Quad LNB's. Have a read of http://www.satelliteonline.co.uk/commercial_systems.htm. You have a multiswitch connected to the quattro by four cables and can get them in various sizes. Do a google search using "satellite" and multiswitch".

I would still give Sky a call to see if they can upgrade the already installed system. They will want subscribers to have more than the one feed available so that they can enjoy the benefits of multiroom, Sky+ and Sky HD. They may do the work for you and free of charge.

Rustpot · 25-04-2006, 10:53

My apologies, I assumed that it was a domestic installation.

Look at this site. satelliteonline

As far as the wall plate is concerned you will probably find it is Di plexed or triplexed with only one co-ax feed and split at the wall plate. If this is so you will need an extra feed or replace the existing single coax with a "shotgun cable"

ianathuth · 25-04-2006, 10:58

The problem that you may face is that the apartment owner may not allow further cables to be routed through the building. If this is the case then you can get a stacker/destacker which allows a single cable to be used for two seperate feeds.

mrkelly · 25-04-2006, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianathuth

The problem that you may face is that the apartment owner may not allow further cables to be routed through the building. If this is the case then you can get a stacker/destacker which allows a single cable to be used for two seperate feeds.

I'll have to get the faceplate off and see what's going down there. I had assumed there'd be two cables, but then my experience of routing cables round a house is pretty limited.

Each faceplate has a UHF/FM socket on it as well as the satellite connector, and from looking at some of the switches available it looks like some send a UHF signal as well, so we may have to worry about multiple signals on the one cable as Rustpot mentioned also.

I think the best way forward is to both contact the management company to ask about the current setup and what can be done, and to get up in the roofspace and see what's already up there (cause the management company probably won't have a clue anyway.)

It scares me just how much interested I get in some of this stuff

Wish I'd known more about it before the Sky contractor threw 2 cables over my own roof! This "stacker/destacker" stuff - would I be able to use one piece of coax to send two sky feeds down an coax cable and one UHF signal (TVlink) back up the same cable? Also, any recommendations on best to join two separate pieces of coax? My TVlink is currently routed to the bedroom using 2-pieces of coaxed joined in the roofspace - unfortunately there's no way to repalce on of them so I really need a decent connector.

Cheers for all the advice guys!

mrkelly

Rustpot · 25-04-2006, 11:41

The best method of joining TV coaxial cables is by using two male F type plugs (Maplin order code FU04E) and a female to female F Type adaptor (Maplin order code FE92A).

Of course unbroken is better

mrkelly · 25-04-2006, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustpot

Of course unbroken is better

Yeah - I was going to replace the two cables with a continuous piece but there's no access to the feed tube from anywhere in the house without pulling some of the upstairs walls apart - low roof at the front y'see.

Rustpot · 25-04-2006, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkelly

but there's no access to the feed tube from anywhere in the house without pulling some of the upstairs walls apart - low roof at the front y'see.

How about no cable at all and use a video sender? You will get stereo sound and could change you mind about which bedroom you put the TV in.

Just a thought. Quite cheap from Argos

mrkelly · 25-04-2006, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustpot

How about no cable at all and use a video sender? You will get stereo sound and could change you mind about which bedroom you put the TV in.

Just a thought. Quite cheap from Argos

I take it that works wirelessly? I'd heard bad things about the quality of such devices, and also that they were interfered by, and interfered with, wireless computer networks. Is this true? Can you recommend any models?

Rustpot · 25-04-2006, 21:07

Not used one myself as I have hardwired the house with a TVlink system using an 8 way loftbox.

But you are right they can be affected by other wireless networks and microwave ovens.

dcsarge · 26-04-2006, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkelly

I take it that works wirelessly? I'd heard bad things about the quality of such devices, and also that they were interfered by, and interfered with, wireless computer networks. Is this true? Can you recommend any models?

I used an AEG Digisender Gold (Argos sell the standard version for £80, Gold version works with TW cable) with Telewest and Sky up until I got Sky+ with Multiroom on offer.

While they can suffer interference they do have a choice of frequencies to use. I used to get interference from my microwave when it was in use at my old flat but not when I moved into my current house. I am guessing the walls are thicker here but the floor between levels doesn't pose as much of an obstacle.

My Belkin ADSL wireless modem/router never caused a problem although oddly my brother's Belkin wireless cable router did (he bought the Digisender from me

). However, in his case he placed it right next his computer in his study and didn't put much effort into finding good frequency/channel combos between equipment.

Worth looking at and Argos are very good on returns if things don't work!

25-04-2006, 09:24	#1
mrkelly Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 8	Issue with shared satellite dish on apartment block Hi, A friend of mine has just received the keys to a nice two-year old apartment. As with many newer apartment buildings, the developers have helpfully stuck a big dish on the wall outside, and wired up each flat. Unfortunately, these guys are several years behind current technology and each flat has only one satellite connection so it's no use for Sky+ at present. He's already been told that he's not allowed to put up another dish so he's asked me to investigate. The dish outside has what looks like a quad LNB - there's definitely only 4 wires heading up the wall into the roofspace of his apartment. Now, I might be confused here, but from reading around, there's only 4 combinations of polarisation and frequency band that the LNB works with (sorry if these terms aren't quite right.) There's 6 apartments in this building, served by a quad LNB, so I'm presuming there's some sort of distribution box in the roofspace. The Sky box in each flat requests a certain combination of polarisation/frequency, and the distribution box would route the appropriate signal from the LNB to the Sky box. This is the only way I can think of to serve 6 independent Sky boxes from a quad LNB. If this is the case, then if there was a free spot on the distribution point, or it could be replaced with something bigger, then I could replace the faceplate in the living room with a twin satellite version (it currently is satellite and standard TV aerial, so there's two cables there.) I could then wire up to the distribution point, and he's got two satellite connections for Sky+. Am I making up this distribution point hardware or do they exist? Obviously it might only have 6 connections, but he could always beg one of a neighbour who's not currently using it, or we could get the management company to replace it with a larger (Sky+ friendlier) one. Alternatively the point might have surplus connections which we could tap into. Apologies for the long-winded essay, any advice from you guys would be much appreciated. Cheers, mrkelly

25-04-2006, 09:35	#2
Rustpot Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Services: SKY+ Pace PVR2 with 250 samsung 5400rpm HDD,TV link, fan controller Posts: 666	You need to check the LNB. It could be an Octo LNB with 8 points and only four apartments are actually wired. Alternatively you could suggest(or even pay for an Octo) on the basis that you would get an extra feed. It is unlikely that there is a distribution box in the loft other than for terrestial/DAB/FM etc. as you cannot split the SKY signal and requires typically an uninterupted run to the digi box.

25-04-2006, 10:50	#5
ianathuth Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Nottinghamshire Services: Sky+ with mirror. NTL broadband. Posts: 700	Communal distribution systems use quattro LNB's rather than Quad LNB's. Have a read of http://www.satelliteonline.co.uk/commercial_systems.htm. You have a multiswitch connected to the quattro by four cables and can get them in various sizes. Do a google search using "satellite" and multiswitch". I would still give Sky a call to see if they can upgrade the already installed system. They will want subscribers to have more than the one feed available so that they can enjoy the benefits of multiroom, Sky+ and Sky HD. They may do the work for you and free of charge.

25-04-2006, 10:53	#6
Rustpot Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Services: SKY+ Pace PVR2 with 250 samsung 5400rpm HDD,TV link, fan controller Posts: 666	My apologies, I assumed that it was a domestic installation. Look at this site. satelliteonline As far as the wall plate is concerned you will probably find it is Di plexed or triplexed with only one co-ax feed and split at the wall plate. If this is so you will need an extra feed or replace the existing single coax with a "shotgun cable"

25-04-2006, 10:58	#7
ianathuth Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Nottinghamshire Services: Sky+ with mirror. NTL broadband. Posts: 700	The problem that you may face is that the apartment owner may not allow further cables to be routed through the building. If this is the case then you can get a stacker/destacker which allows a single cable to be used for two seperate feeds.

25-04-2006, 11:41	#9
Rustpot Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Services: SKY+ Pace PVR2 with 250 samsung 5400rpm HDD,TV link, fan controller Posts: 666	The best method of joining TV coaxial cables is by using two male F type plugs (Maplin order code FU04E) and a female to female F Type adaptor (Maplin order code FE92A). Of course unbroken is better

25-04-2006, 21:07	#13
Rustpot Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Services: SKY+ Pace PVR2 with 250 samsung 5400rpm HDD,TV link, fan controller Posts: 666	Not used one myself as I have hardwired the house with a TVlink system using an 8 way loftbox. But you are right they can be affected by other wireless networks and microwave ovens.