[HeyBaby]

We know how unwelcoming they were to Aisleyne and Sam (and Suzie, for Grace) but would they have been the same if they were still in around the time Spiral, Michael, Jayne and Jennie arrived? I could image Sezer getting along with Spiral, but I don't know about the rest.

[saj2]

to be honest, Its hard to say because there would have been 5 of them afetr all and they were all quite strong characters who would have said if they felt intimidated. I do think they would have acted badly though, just my opinion

[Michaela123]

Well Grace seems to get along well with Michael from some of the other footage and I thin she would have got along with Spiral and Jennie. I'm not sure about Jayne though.

Not sure about Sezer

[SWW (SWW)]

The HMD HMs were aware that they would have to kiss-up to the old HM... like they (bar Jayne) did to Aisleyne....

Therefore Grace and Mikey would have taken kindly to them... as the HND HMs themeselves would have been trying to ingratiate themselves.

Regards

[bluntbob]

Originally Posted by HeyBaby

We know how unwelcoming they were to Aisleyne and Sam (and Suzie, for Grace) but would they have been the same if they were still in around the time Spiral, Michael, Jayne and Jennie arrived? I could image Sezer getting along with Spiral, but I don't know about the rest.

There's always that weird settling in period for new housemates.
It happened when the HND housemates came in. Apart from a few comments here and there about her attitude and her dress sense Ash didn't get treated that badly and intergrated fairly quickly. Sam had the most problems. Sezer wasn't half as bad towards Ash or even Sam as people are suggesting. On a game plan level he talked a lot of rubbish but interacted with them for the most part quite well. Grace bitched a great deal but didn't actually behave badly towards Ash. In fact there's quite a bit of footage to suggest otherwise.

It wasn't any different for Eugene/Orlaith last year or Becki the year before that. In fact Ash was treated far better than any of those were.

[HeyBaby]

Originally Posted by bluntbob

Sezer wasn't half as bad towards Ash or even Sam as people are suggesting.

Nope, not towards them, but behind their backs.

[bluntbob]

Originally Posted by HeyBaby

Nope, not towards them, but behind their backs.

It doesn't matter what they said behind her back (they all vented fustrations and chatted rubbish behind each others backs...including Ash). She didn't hear it so therefore she wasn't treated badly by anyone.
Eg: Her constant moaning about Sezer wasn't about anything he actually did to her (can you remember Sezer physically bullying her?)
Also her behaviour towards Nikki wasn't in relation to anything Nikki had done to her either.
Ash didn't hear any of the bitching therefore her behaviour towards the housemates was totally independent and not in response to anything they actually did.

[Veri]

So far as what people believe happened is concerned, a lot might depend on how Richard presented it in his almost daily "my view of the house" segment of the highlights show and on whether BB found carefully selected clips to go with it.

(blutbob's said the other things I might have, better than I would.)

[Chisato Geeste]

Depends if they fit their bigotted and narrow minded view of how they think people should look and behave. If not they would be labelled "freaks" and hounded.

[Veri]

Originally Posted by Chisato Geeste

Depends if they fit their bigotted and narrow minded view of how they think people should look and behave. If not they would be labelled "freaks" and hounded.

Their view wasn't so narrow, and they didn't hound anyone. Why does everything have to be turned into something worse than it was?

[spiralx]

Heheh, it's far enough past BB7 that people are forgetting details and letting their prejudices fill in the blanks

[12bigbrother12]

Sezer would have hated it.

[SWW (SWW)]

Originally Posted by bluntbob

It doesn't matter what they said behind her back (they all vented fustrations and chatted rubbish behind each others backs...including Ash). She didn't hear it so therefore she wasn't treated badly by anyone.
Eg: Her constant moaning about Sezer wasn't about anything he actually did to her (can you remember Sezer physically bullying her?)
Also her behaviour towards Nikki wasn't in relation to anything Nikki had done to her either.
Ash didn't hear any of the bitching therefore her behaviour towards the housemates was totally independent and not in response to anything they actually did.

Excellent post bluntbob...

Jeez... I hope we back the same CBB HMs

[dugq]

Originally Posted by bluntbob

It doesn't matter what they said behind her back (they all vented fustrations and chatted rubbish behind each others backs...including Ash). She didn't hear it so therefore she wasn't treated badly by anyone.
Eg: Her constant moaning about Sezer wasn't about anything he actually did to her (can you remember Sezer physically bullying her?)
Also her behaviour towards Nikki wasn't in relation to anything Nikki had done to her either.
Ash didn't hear any of the bitching therefore her behaviour towards the housemates was totally independent and not in response to anything they actually did.

That argument assumes we get to see and hear everything that happens in the house, which is obviously untrue. During her first hour in the house Ash had quite a long convo with Sezar, although we couldn't hear what was said. A short while later she went to the DR and commented that Sezar was making digs at her. Later on Sezar went to the DR and admits to wanting to bully Ash. So, either Sezar was making sly digs in the convo which Ash commented on in the DR, or Sezar was perfectly nice to her and it was simply conicedence that Sezar would later admit to wanting to bully her shortly after Ash accused him of making digs. IMO, thats simply to big a coincedence.

In regards to the bitching, Ash was perfectly aware of it. When Nikki told her the others had been bitching about her she knew that Grace and Lisa had been bitching, although she was surprised to know that Imogen had been. Lea later told her exactly what they had been saying. I think its naive of you to say that because it was behind Ash's back she couldn't have known about it. In that kind of environment its easy to pick up something like that, as Ash shows she did. Before Nikki told her about the bitching Ash mentioned on several occasions that some of the HMs had not been welcoming to her when she first arrived.

[Verence]

Originally Posted by bluntbob

It wasn't any different for Eugene/Orlaith last year or Becki the year before that. In fact Ash was treated far better than any of those were.

The only person that treated Eugene badly was Craig cos he thought Eugene was trying to steal Anfony from him

[dugq]

Originally Posted by HeyBaby

We know how unwelcoming they were to Aisleyne and Sam (and Suzie, for Grace) but would they have been the same if they were still in around the time Spiral, Michael, Jayne and Jennie arrived? I could image Sezer getting along with Spiral, but I don't know about the rest.

I think it really depends upon the politics in the house at the time. If Grace and Sezar were still in the house at that time then I would expect that their group would have been dominant. In which case I expect they would have treated the new HMs okay, while nominating them each week (which is what happened anyway, new HMs are simply eviction fodder). If the two groups wrew still there and the new HMs could have swung the vote then I expect Grace would have gone into hyper-bitch mode, Sezar (who was always the better in-house game player IMO) would have picked some of the HMs to bring into the new group (possibly Spiral and Jennie, I think Jayne would have repulsed him and michael confused him)

[bluntbob]

Originally Posted by dugq

That argument assumes we get to see and hear everything that happens in the house, which is obviously untrue. During her first hour in the house Ash had quite a long convo with Sezar, although we couldn't hear what was said. A short while later she went to the DR and commented that Sezar was making digs at her. Later on Sezar went to the DR and admits to wanting to bully Ash. So, either Sezar was making sly digs in the convo which Ash commented on in the DR, or Sezar was perfectly nice to her and it was simply conicedence that Sezar would later admit to wanting to bully her shortly after Ash accused him of making digs. IMO, thats simply to big a coincedence.

In regards to the bitching, Ash was perfectly aware of it. When Nikki told her the others had been bitching about her she knew that Grace and Lisa had been bitching, although she was surprised to know that Imogen had been. Lea later told her exactly what they had been saying. I think its naive of you to say that because it was behind Ash's back she couldn't have known about it. In that kind of environment its easy to pick up something like that, as Ash shows she did. Before Nikki told her about the bitching Ash mentioned on several occasions that some of the HMs had not been welcoming to her when she first arrived.

You still haven't said anything that suggests that they did anything bad to her.
Didn't she say many times that she liked Grace? Wouldn't that suggest that Grace behaved well towards her (even if it was only in her presence?)
And if your saying that Nikki told her about the bitching wouldn't that mean that she had a 'friendly' relationship with Nikki?
If your also saying that there was more to Ash's conversation with Sezer (which most likely there would have been) If his behaviour was truly bad wouldn't it have affected her much more than it did at the time?
Would her body language towards him be like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVG8Wdj50TY
There's a few quips from Sezer, but not at a level that caused Ash distress.
And as for Mikey, his body language is totally friendly.

Also take a look at the clip 'Taking the Mikey'
http://www.channel4.com/entertainmen...ek=3&pageNo=12

...and this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo6eFQ9bmFg

Who seems like the outcast? Ash or Sam?


From what I remember wasn't it Richard that suggested that Sezer was being suspiscious (which made Ash more aware of it) and wasn't it Richard who stepped in when Sezer was questioning her in the pool implying that Sezer was being a bully, which then caused Ash's reaction? Admittedly Sezer was asking a lot of questions (which was pretty much all they were....questions!) but as we read here the night didn't end nastily
http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/n...=1&housemateId=

Even if we go right to the point where Ash had been nominated. Wasn't her reaction based on the fact that she thought 'everyone liked her!" ? If she had been treated badly why would she have been so surprised at being nominated?

What I'm doing is taking away the housemates motives and feelings towards her and concentrating on what they actually did to her.....which was nothing.

....And if you read back your last post you could change the names and apply that to any other housemate, new and old.

[Late Romantic]

Originally Posted by dugq

In regards to the bitching, Ash was perfectly aware of it. When Nikki told her the others had been bitching about her she knew that Grace and Lisa had been bitching, although she was surprised to know that Imogen had been. Lea later told her exactly what they had been saying. I think its naive of you to say that because it was behind Ash's back she couldn't have known about it. In that kind of environment its easy to pick up something like that, as Ash shows she did. Before Nikki told her about the bitching Ash mentioned on several occasions that some of the HMs had not been welcoming to her when she first arrived.

Lea couldn't know exactly what had been said, and the rest looks pretty vague. That some housemates had not been welcoming, for example, could even have been an idea she picked up from Richard.

[bluntbob]

Originally Posted by Late Romantic

Lea couldn't know exactly what had been said, and the rest looks pretty vague. That some housemates had not been welcoming, for example, could even have been an idea she picked up from Richard.

If Dugg is talking about what I think he is then when Lea had told her that Imogen had been bitching, Aisleyne said "I know, Imogen told me!"
Lea had been unaware that Ash and Imogen had had a 'clear the air talk' a while back, in which Imogen told Ash everything she had said about her!

[dugq]

Originally Posted by bluntbob

You still haven't said anything that suggests that they did anything bad to her.

That all depends how you define bad. Making sly digs, blanking her from activities (the shopping for example) interrogating her on her first night, bitching about her, and calling her a ghetto hoe to her face, were IMO, pretty rude.

Didn't she say many times that she liked Grace? Wouldn't that suggest that Grace behaved well towards her (even if it was only in her presence?)

She said she liked Grace...but... And that changed quick enough. I don't think that Ash was aware of Grace's bitching from the start, but she was certainly aware of it after a while, as she made clear.

And if your saying that Nikki told her about the bitching wouldn't that mean that she had a 'friendly' relationship with Nikki?

I don't really want to get into the Nikk-Ash relationship, very OT. But I would say wholeheartedly no to this point. Nikki told Ash about the bitching two nights before Grace and her were up for eviction and IMO was a very blatant attempt to leave the plastics and get with the freaks. It had nothing to do with friendship towards Ash.

If your also saying that there was more to Ash's conversation with Sezer (which most likely there would have been) If his behaviour was truly bad wouldn't it have affected her much more than it did at the time?

Depends what you mean by truly bad. IMO he probably made some sly digs, as he does in the clip, and in the infamous chat in the garden later on that night, and Ash picked up on that. Ash was in full on ghetto mode at the time, and would probably have been expecting a rough ride from some in the house, so probably couldn't care less. However, that doesn't change the fact that Sezar did behave badly and that this, in part, isolated Ash from the house

Would her body language towards him be like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVG8Wdj50TY
There's a few quips from Sezer, but not at a level that caused Ash distress.
And as for Mikey, his body language is totally friendly.

Mikey was friendly with Ash from the start, that only changed when Ash admitted to being happy that Sezar had left. As for Sezar he called her a ghetto hoe. Ain't exactly nice is it? Maybe its not a full-on attack, but compare it with the times that Richard put down Imogen with sly comments, and I think you'll agree with that Sezar was a lot worse.

Also take a look at the clip 'Taking the Mikey'
http://www.channel4.com/entertainmen...ek=3&pageNo=12

...and this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo6eFQ9bmFg

Who seems like the outcast? Ash or Sam?

I don't understand, neither Grace or Sezar are in those clips.

From what I remember wasn't it Richard that suggested that Sezer was being suspiscious (which made Ash more aware of it) and wasn't it Richard who stepped in when Sezer was questioning her in the pool implying that Sezer was being a bully, which then caused Ash's reaction? Admittedly Sezer was asking a lot of questions (which was pretty much all they were....questions!) but as we read here the night didn't end nastily
http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/n...=1&housemateId=

The first indication that Ash had picked up on Sezars digs was when her and Sam went to the DR. This was before the pool convo, and before Richard had spoken to her about Sezar

Even if we go right to the point where Ash had been nominated. Wasn't her reaction based on the fact that she thought 'everyone liked her!" ? If she had been treated badly why would she have been so surprised at being nominated?

Because Grace, Sezar and Lisa, the ones who she was aware had a problem with her, had left. IMO that was why she reacted so badly. She had started out knowing that several people in the house disliked her, hadn't been nominated while they had all been evictd, then, when she feels safe and feels the people in the house like her, she gets nommed.

What I'm doing is taking away the housemates motives and feelings towards her and concentrating on what they actually did to her.....which was nothing.

....And if you read back your last post you could change the names and apply that to any other housemate, new and old.

But they did do stuff, Sezar made comments to her face, and interogated her on her first night. Ash obviously picked up on this, as her own words made clear. Grace bitched about her behind her back, which Ash was aware of.

It seems to me that you are looking for a full on attack and when you don't find it you say that there was nothing at all. However, you don't need a full on attack, sly digs and bitchy comments can be more than enough. I mentioned Richard and Ims before, which is a very similar case. After lagergate 1 we could argue that Richard was perfectly pleasent to Imogen, and by the standards you are using here, he was. He even invited her to dinner, what a nice guy! However, IMO and I suspect in yours too, Richard made several sly digs which had the clear intenton of putting Ims down. His peacemaking dinner seemed to be more about rubbing in the fact that Sezar had left than it did about making peace. Of course Imogen never got angry or was visibly upset to his face, but she made it clear in other ways that she was aware of what he was doing. The exact same is true of Ash.

The trouble with your argument is that Ash made it clear that she felt that Sezar trying to make her feel like shit and that Grace was bitching about her, and we know that Sezar was trying to make her feel like shit and that Grace was btching about her. So we have two concllusions, either Ash accurately picked up on what was happening in the house (straight away with Sezar, over time with Grace), or else she was just paranoid but by complete coincendece was completely correct. IMO, the first option is the only reasonable one.

[dugq]

Originally Posted by Late Romantic

Lea couldn't know exactly what had been said, and the rest looks pretty vague. That some housemates had not been welcoming, for example, could even have been an idea she picked up from Richard.

Lea told Ash exactly what had been said about her by Grace. This happened on the same day as lagergate 2 (and, irelevent though it is, indirectly led to the egyptian fancy dress theme of Ash, Richard and Pete)

[dugq]

Originally Posted by bluntbob

If Dugg is talking about what I think he is then when Lea had told her that Imogen had been bitching, Aisleyne said "I know, Imogen told me!"
Lea had been unaware that Ash and Imogen had had a 'clear the air talk' a while back, in which Imogen told Ash everything she had said about her!

Nah, it was before then. Nikki told Ash two nights before watergate, that people in the house had been bitching about her. Ash said she knew Grace and Lisa were, Lea said, and Ims too. Ash was surprised by this and Lea tried to take it back. The next day Lea told her what Grace and Lisa had been saying but IIRC left out any mention of Ims.

It was only later, when Ims and Ash became friends that Lea told Ash what Ims had been saying in an attempt to cause friction between the two.

[brangdon]

Originally Posted by bluntbob

It wasn't any different for Eugene/Orlaith last year or Becki the year before that. In fact Ash was treated far better than any of those were.

Agreed. Up until series 6 and the Secret Garden, newcomers had a very hard time. I remember Lisa struggling in s4. People think of s4 as being "nice", but they never gave her much of a chance and she was out at first opportunity.

Adding new housemates two or more at a time helps them immensely. In BB7 it was Sam who took most of the flack, which may have helped Aisleyne (although maybe not as much as a strong Sam ally would have).

[bluntbob]

Originally Posted by dugq

That all depends how you define bad. Making sly digs, blanking her from activities (the shopping for example) interrogating her on her first night, bitching about her, and calling her a ghetto hoe to her face, were IMO, pretty rude.



She said she liked Grace...but... And that changed quick enough. I don't think that Ash was aware of Grace's bitching from the start, but she was certainly aware of it after a while, as she made clear.



I don't really want to get into the Nikk-Ash relationship, very OT. But I would say wholeheartedly no to this point. Nikki told Ash about the bitching two nights before Grace and her were up for eviction and IMO was a very blatant attempt to leave the plastics and get with the freaks. It had nothing to do with friendship towards Ash.



Depends what you mean by truly bad. IMO he probably made some sly digs, as he does in the clip, and in the infamous chat in the garden later on that night, and Ash picked up on that. Ash was in full on ghetto mode at the time, and would probably have been expecting a rough ride from some in the house, so probably couldn't care less. However, that doesn't change the fact that Sezar did behave badly and that this, in part, isolated Ash from the house



Mikey was friendly with Ash from the start, that only changed when Ash admitted to being happy that Sezar had left. As for Sezar he called her a ghetto hoe. Ain't exactly nice is it? Maybe its not a full-on attack, but compare it with the times that Richard put down Imogen with sly comments, and I think you'll agree with that Sezar was a lot worse.



I don't understand, neither Grace or Sezar are in those clips.




The first indication that Ash had picked up on Sezars digs was when her and Sam went to the DR. This was before the pool convo, and before Richard had spoken to her about Sezar



Because Grace, Sezar and Lisa, the ones who she was aware had a problem with her, had left. IMO that was why she reacted so badly. She had started out knowing that several people in the house disliked her, hadn't been nominated while they had all been evictd, then, when she feels safe and feels the people in the house like her, she gets nommed.



But they did do stuff, Sezar made comments to her face, and interogated her on her first night. Ash obviously picked up on this, as her own words made clear. Grace bitched about her behind her back, which Ash was aware of.

It seems to me that you are looking for a full on attack and when you don't find it you say that there was nothing at all. However, you don't need a full on attack, sly digs and bitchy comments can be more than enough. I mentioned Richard and Ims before, which is a very similar case. After lagergate 1 we could argue that Richard was perfectly pleasent to Imogen, and by the standards you are using here, he was. He even invited her to dinner, what a nice guy! However, IMO and I suspect in yours too, Richard made several sly digs which had the clear intenton of putting Ims down. His peacemaking dinner seemed to be more about rubbing in the fact that Sezar had left than it did about making peace. Of course Imogen never got angry or was visibly upset to his face, but she made it clear in other ways that she was aware of what he was doing. The exact same is true of Ash.

The trouble with your argument is that Ash made it clear that she felt that Sezar trying to make her feel like shit and that Grace was bitching about her, and we know that Sezar was trying to make her feel like shit and that Grace was btching about her. So we have two concllusions, either Ash accurately picked up on what was happening in the house (straight away with Sezar, over time with Grace), or else she was just paranoid but by complete coincendece was completely correct. IMO, the first option is the only reasonable one.

Dugg, if Ash was treated really badly by the girls or Grace surely that would have reflected in her nominations.
In her first ever nomination she nominates- Nikki and Sam. and her reasons for nominating Nikki was nothing to do with bitching or treating her badly.
In the Imogen/Richard scenario Richard treated her very badly over pretty much the duration of the show but even though the highlight show hid the extent of his treatment it was reflected in her nominations and Diary room enteries.
There's no evidence of this bad treatment from Grace or the girls in either during the show, nominations or her Diary Room enteries. The only evidence we saw was the girls bitching behind her back. None of which she heard or saw.
As for Sezer giving her sly little digs.....he gave everyone the same digs. She would have noticed this during the time spent in the house and took it lightly (as she did in that clip). That was his routine 'cheeky chappy' (admittedly he could be an idiot) but his little comments were not isolated to Ash. and you cannot deny that by the time he'd left they had a better understanding of each other. Sezer admitted himself during his interview that his first impression of her changed as soon as he got to know her.....however his impression of Sam remained the same.

Everything stems down to the first night when he asked her loads of questions. That night made her uncomfortable but not over a prolonged period of time. It was only after he left and during lots of discussions with Richard that much more of an issue of it was made.
The reality is that Sam bore the brunt of the isolation while Ash gradually intergrated.

People remember the bitching that the girls, Grace and Sezer did but when it comes down to anything bad that they outwardly did they can't think of anything.

...and like I said vibes and hearsay is something that all the housemates picked up on and heard all the time.
When she was nominated she was surprised because she thought the housemates liked her.....why would she be surprised if they had treated her so badly?.....and going back to the early days.... why would she even like Grace in the first place?.....wouldn't she have nominated her first?

[dugq]

I don't mean to be rude but I answered most of these points in my previous posts

Originally Posted by bluntbob

Dugg, if Ash was treated really badly by the girls or Grace surely that would have reflected in her nominations.
In her first ever nomination she nominates- Nikki and Sam. and her reasons for nominating Nikki was nothing to do with bitching or treating her badly.

Ash did not pick up on Grace's bitching straight away, but only later on, not in time for her first nomination (I have already explained this).

In the Imogen/Richard scenario Richard treated her very badly over pretty much the duration of the show but even though the highlight show hid the extent of his treatment it was reflected in her nominations and Diary room enteries.
There's no evidence of this bad treatment from Grace or the girls in either during the show, nominations or her Diary Room enteries. The only evidence we saw was the girls bitching behind her back. None of which she heard or saw.

But the fact is that Ash was aware of the bitching. When Nikki said some people have been bitching about you, Ash replied "I know, Grace and Lisa". I don't see what better evidence you could want for Ash knowing that Grace had been bitching about her than Ash saying that Grace was bitching about her (I have already explained this).

As for Sezer giving her sly little digs.....he gave everyone the same digs. She would have noticed this during the time spent in the house and took it lightly (as she did in that clip). That was his routine 'cheeky chappy' (admittedly he could be an idiot) but his little comments were not isolated to Ash. and you cannot deny that by the time he'd left they had a better understanding of each other. Sezer admitted himself during his interview that his first impression of her changed as soon as he got to know her.....however his impression of Sam remained the same.

You could say exactly the same about Richards treatment of Imogen (and no doubt some people have). It was just Richards way, just his routine of the "bitchy queen", he was like that to everyone etc. All of that is correct, but you and I know that there was more to Richards treatment of Imogen than that. Likewise, we both know that there was more to Sezars treatment than just his "cheeky chappy" routine. How do we know this? Because he went into the diary room and told us What more evidence do you need?. And he may have said he changed his mind about Ash, but he also admitted he was out of order the way he treated her to begin with.

Everything stems down to the first night when he asked her loads of questions. That night made her uncomfortable but not over a prolonged period of time. It was only after he left and during lots of discussions with Richard that much more of an issue of it was made.
The reality is that Sam bore the brunt of the isolation while Ash gradually intergrated.

Completely untrue. Ash went into the DR and commented on Sezars sly digs before the garden convo, and before the Richard said anything about Sezar to her (I have already explained this). Ash was clearly unhappy with Sezars treatment of her as was made clear my her laughing at his eviction.

People remember the bitching that the girls, Grace and Sezer did but when it comes down to anything bad that they outwardly did they can't think of anything.

So how did Ash know that Grace and Lisa were bitching? How did she know that Sezar wanted to make her feel like shit? We know that they were bitching, we know that Sezar wanted to make her feel like shit but if your right and neither did anything outwardly, how did Ash know? Is Ash psychic? Is it just coincedence that Ash knew what was going on? Or is it more likely that Ash picked up on it just liked Ims picked up on what Richard was doing. I have asked you to explain how Ash knew what was going on several times and so far you haven't offered an explanation. The fact is maybe what was going on was too subtle for you to pickup, just llike some of the things that Richard did to Ims was to subtle for some of the viewers to pickup. But both Ims and Ash showed that they did pick up on what was happening, and this is clear in their behaviour. Theres three options
1. Ash is psychic
2. Ash is an incredibly good guesser
3. Ash picked up on something that you didn't

Which is the most likely?.

...and like I said vibes and hearsay is something that all the housemates picked up on and heard all the time.
When she was nominated she was surprised because she thought the housemates liked her.....why would she be surprised if they had treated her so badly?.....and going back to the early days.... why would she even like Grace in the first place?.....wouldn't she have nominated her first?

The people Ash knew were bitching about her (Lisa, Grace, and Sezar) had all left by the time that Ash was nominated, so this point is irrelevent (I have already explained this).