PVR80 Upgraded to 5.7 but still no BBC1 - Digihome

JohnON · 08-11-2009, 15:12

Hi Folks,

I followed the advice on my own website

and upgraded to v5.7 firmware but still no BBC1 or BBC2. Doing a manual scan of channel 62 (Winter Hill) shows no signal.

My TV and Humus box are both OK so I know the signal is at the aerial.

Any ideas, please? Are there very early Digihomes in which even the hardware won't work?

John.

futaura · 08-11-2009, 19:10

Not AFAIK, but I may be wrong

. Have you tried a "First time installation"?

JohnON · 08-11-2009, 20:43

Yes, I think I've tried all the combinations I can think of: rescan with no aerial, first time installation, manual scan. I've tried removing the RF loop and plugging the aerial into both tuner 1 and tuner 2. I've installed the firmware again.

It's a box I've had out on loan for 18 months and finally got it back because BBC1 and 2 had gone missing. I was looking forward to upgrading it and finally getitng to have a play with it!

John.

Chris771 · 08-11-2009, 21:19

John,

It looks as though we have the same problem.

I was assuming I had no signal showing on Channel 62 Multiplex 1 because I have not managed to upgrade my firmware to V5.7 and the machine could not decode because because of wrong software.

However, apparently you have managed to upgrade your firmware and still have no signal.

Similarly, both my Technosonic and Thomson PVRs have good signals on Channel 62.

I am now even more confused. I don't suppose you have any idea why my Digihome 160 will not accept the binary file do you?

Thanks

chris

futaura · 08-11-2009, 21:56

Deleted

futaura · 09-11-2009, 10:54

John, I've contacted Vestel about this issue... Perhaps you or somebody else here can answer this technical question regarding CH62 on Winter Hill: what is the exact frequency it is being broadcast on? Normally CH62 would be 802MHz, but has an offset been applied on Winter Hill? 166KHz is shifted for +1 or -1 offset. So, for example, the frequency for -1 offset will be 801.834 MHz and +1 offset will be 802.166 MHz.

JohnON · 09-11-2009, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by futaura

John, I've contacted Vestel about this issue... Perhaps you or somebody else here can answer this technical question regarding CH62 on Winter Hill: what is the exact frequency it is being broadcast on? Normally CH62 would be 802MHz, but has an offset been applied on Winter Hill? 166KHz is shifted for +1 or -1 offset. So, for example, the frequency for -1 offset will be 801.834 MHz and +1 offset will be 802.166 MHz.

I'd love to help but haven't got a clue, I'm afraid

John.

futaura · 09-11-2009, 12:25

Me neither, and googling hasn't help much yet either

. The presumption being that Winter Hill is not broadcasting CH62 on 802MHz, which is why the PVR80 is not picking it up - if we can find out for sure somehow, maybe Vestel can help. The other thing I thought of is that maybe your signal is too strong on CH62 (since it is now using 100kW) and the PVR80 can't handle it. If you have an attenuator handy to plug-in, that would prove/disprove that theory.

JohnON · 09-11-2009, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris771

John,

It looks as though we have the same problem.

I was assuming I had no signal showing on Channel 62 Multiplex 1 because I have not managed to upgrade my firmware to V5.7 and the machine could not decode because because of wrong software.

However, apparently you have managed to upgrade your firmware and still have no signal.

Similarly, both my Technosonic and Thomson PVRs have good signals on Channel 62.

I am now even more confused. I don't suppose you have any idea why my Digihome 160 will not accept the binary file do you?

Thanks

chris

I know the procedure works because I've had several emails from people who downloaded the upgrade from futaura's site (I assume

) and followed the upgrade instructions on mine.

This screenshot shows that the updated firmware has "gone in".

From at least one email I've received, I'm aware of someone else who, like yourself, can't get the RS232 upgrade process to complete properly. I haven't had the opportunity to "quiz" him any further as to whether he's using true RS232 or a USB-serial converter (not sure if taht has any relevance).

So, there seems to be 3 scenarios:
1. Update success and BBC1 up and running.
2. Update success but still no BBC1.
3. Update not accepted by PVR.

I think the previous version I had was 5.3 - in case it's relevant to the upgrade difficulty.

John.

Chris771 · 09-11-2009, 12:57

John,

I have finally managed to upgrade my DTR 160 (see the post following on my own thread about difficulties upgrading). In my case it needed a short homemade high quality serial cable, presumably because of noise immunity problems.

Once I had managed to successfully flash the firmware I did a full new install retune and immediately had a signal showing on channel 62 ( plus another one in the mid 40s which I did not have before).

So, I think I may be correct in saying that unless you have the 8K COFDM upgrade working properly, your receiver will not manage to decode and reconcile Channel 62. Until I successfully completed the firmware upgrade, my receiver showed no signal on Channel 62, now it is good/very good and, once more, I have all channels.

So, possibly it may be worth trying the software upgrade again. I realise that it probably has CRC Checking to prevent any corruptions, but I would not guarantee it.

Regards

Chris

JohnON · 09-11-2009, 13:34

Thanks for the info. The upgrade does seem to be "taking" but, as you say, there might be a problem. I used to use a serial card in the PC but, for some reason, I can't get it's driver to install this time so I used a USB-serial cable instead.

I'll work on getting the serial card to work again and try it that way, if I can.

John.

futaura · 09-11-2009, 14:06

I would think that as long as v5.7 is showing in the menus, the upgrade should have worked. I'd be surprised if there is a hardware difference, but it's strange that your box isn't working but Chris's is. If reflashing doesn't help, all I can think of is that the signal is too strong, although this hasn't exactly ever been a problem for Vestel tuners in the past

. If you don't have an attentuator handy, try loosening the aerial lead so you have a not so good connection and therefore reducing signal strength.

JohnON · 09-11-2009, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by futaura

I would think that as long as v5.7 is showing in the menus, the upgrade should have worked. I'd be surprised if there is a hardware difference, but it's strange that your box isn't working but Chris's is. If reflashing doesn't help, all I can think of is that the signal is too strong, although this hasn't exactly ever been a problem for Vestel tuners in the past

. If you don't have an attentuator handy, try loosening the aerial lead so you have a not so good connection and therefore reducing signal strength.

I moved the serial card into the 2nd PC and installed the drivers etc no problem. (Apparently there's a known problem with Windows (no! surely not!) which cause this error code preventing the drivers installing).

Anyway, re-installed the upgrade - went as per the textbook.

Rescanned, still the same

With the box set to Manual Channel Scan and set to channel 66 (ITV, C4 etc), the signal strength is "Good" (about 80%) so I unplugged the aerial and held it against the box and the signal dropped to Medium (about 50%). Leaving it like that, I changed to Manual scan 62 and the strength dropped to zero - the same as with the aerial plugged in - so I don't think it's a signal strength issue.

John.

io1901 · 09-11-2009, 15:19

I can confirm that PVR80 on 5.7 does pick up bbc1 and bbc2 from Winter Hill

JohnON · 09-11-2009, 15:30

Yeah. There's probably a fault in mine somewhere. One of the cogs is slipping or a rubber band has snapped or something

John.

futaura · 09-11-2009, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by futaura

John, I've contacted Vestel about this issue... Perhaps you or somebody else here can answer this technical question regarding CH62 on Winter Hill: what is the exact frequency it is being broadcast on? Normally CH62 would be 802MHz, but has an offset been applied on Winter Hill? 166KHz is shifted for +1 or -1 offset. So, for example, the frequency for -1 offset will be 801.834 MHz and +1 offset will be 802.166 MHz.

To answer my own question, or actually GaryLov did, DigitalUK apparently say it is on a -1 offset, so 801.834 MHz. What difference this makes I have no idea, but I'll feed it back to Vestel anyway in case it does explain something.

John, I'm afraid I too am somewhat perplexed as to why your box is not picking up CH62, while other T810 v5.7 boxes are working fine. Could anything be interfering with the tuner, such as a dect phone or wifi? I know my wifi router can intefere with my TV's tuner on some muxes, mainly because they are less than a metre apart, but I resolved that by changing the wifi channel. [/clutching at straws]

JohnON · 09-11-2009, 20:10

Thanks for the continued interest

. I've had an email from the person who was struggling to update his PVR80 to say he's now done it successfully and it's working 100% .

I've tried the box in two locations (there's a distribution amp in the loft) so I doubt it's interference. I can't turn the amp off otherwise I lose the other channels but I've ordered a variable attenuator from Maplins so, in a couple of days, I'll put that in line and see if it makes any difference.

John.

JohnON · 13-11-2009, 09:32

Success! With nothing to lose, I took the two tuners out and swapped them over and it worked!

They were a bit fiddly to get out - I should really have taken the whole CPU board out - but they unplugged from their sockets at a bit of an angle.

I think I've got record one while watching another - although I haven't tried all the channel combinations - so, rather than a duff tuner, I think it may have just been a bad connection on one of the internal multi-pin sockets.

I would assume that the channels are selected digitally (rather than with an analogue voltage) so it would only take a bad connection on one of the digital signal lines to make the tuner tune to some random frequency nowhere near what it should have been. I suspect other channels which showed no signal when tuned manually will now show a signal as well.

That it was channel 62 causing trouble was just a coincidence designed to confuse.

John.

futaura · 13-11-2009, 10:43

No such thing as coincidences

. Glad you've got it sorted. The easiest way to test is to use PIP - if BBC1 shows in PIP and on the main picture, all should be fine, since PIP will be using one tuner while the main picture will be using the other. Believe it or not, I thought about suggesting swapping the tuners over since once could have been faulty (the one used during rescanning) while the other one was ok - that would be the only hardware issue I could think of, since I'm pretty sure there were no hardware differences on the main PCB. As you know the tuners plug-in separately, so you never know if Vestel maybe changed the spec of those slightly in different batches. As you say it could just have been a bad connection though... I've suggested whilst troubleshooting on at least one other thread that the tuners should be reseated / pressed down, but I think people thought I was mad

.

JohnON · 13-11-2009, 11:38

Ahhh.. well, there's no PIP so it looks as though the tuner is faulty but, if I leave it out altogether, I can't scan for BBC Parliament - and maybe some others.

Anyway, all channels are present after the tuner swap but, presumably, there'll be severe limitations on what can be recorded at the same time. It's only a spare box these days so it's not a problem.

Incidentally, I did spot that the back panel can be removed which makes it easier to unplug the tuners!

John.

futaura · 13-11-2009, 12:08

IIRC, on the T810 the second tuner is always used for PIP and recording, with the first tuner being used exclusively for live tv. Not sure which one is used for channel scans, but I'm guessing the first tuner. Have you tried feeding the input of each tuner from individual aerial feeds - i.e. not using the loopthrough from tuner 1 out to tuner 2 in?

creddish · 13-11-2009, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by futaura

IIRC, on the T810 the second tuner is always used for PIP and recording, with the first tuner being used exclusively for live tv. Not sure which one is used for channel scans, but I'm guessing the first tuner. Have you tried feeding the input of each tuner from individual aerial feeds - i.e. not using the loopthrough from tuner 1 out to tuner 2 in?

That sounds similar to the functionality of the Technotrend PVRs which also used the Cabot middleware. When the earlier software on the Technotrends had only record one/watch one functionality it was clearly defined that one tuner was exclusively used for Live TV and the other exclusively for recording.

Colin

JohnON · 13-11-2009, 14:24

They do seem to be defined for specific functions but there does seem to be either some overlap or some sharing.

With "tuner A" in the input 1 position and "tuner B" in the input 2 position, channel 62 was missing entirely. This seems to be BBC1, BBC2, BBC3, BBC4, CBBC, CBeebies, BBC News and BBC Parliament. But BBC4, CBeebies and Parliament were picked up - I think from channel 67.

I swapped "tuner B" to input 1 and channel 62 scanned but, tuner A had to be in the input 2 position (ie I couldn't leave the tuner's place empty) or BBC4, CBeebies and BBC Parliament were missing.

So, basically, totally confused, I put the lid on it!

John.

jbeavon · 13-11-2009, 21:56

This may not be an issue that is entirely isolated to the T810 models. I've got a T816 displaying similar symptoms. I managed to get the channels scanned in a few days ago, but can't get them to keep coming up with a "No Signal" error. However, on the second tuner, via PIP, I can get a signal no problem at all.

I've not tried swapping them round yet...but suspect I may end up with the same results, in that I'll be able to get the main tuner working fine, but the second tuner then won't work. All in all, it's a bit of a shambles from Vestel. Obviously they've used some very dodgy hardware within their boxes!!!!

JohnON · 14-11-2009, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbeavon

This may not be an issue that is entirely isolated to the T810 models. I've got a T816 displaying similar symptoms. I managed to get the channels scanned in a few days ago, but can't get them to keep coming up with a "No Signal" error. However, on the second tuner, via PIP, I can get a signal no problem at all.

I've not tried swapping them round yet...but suspect I may end up with the same results, in that I'll be able to get the main tuner working fine, but the second tuner then won't work. All in all, it's a bit of a shambles from Vestel. Obviously they've used some very dodgy hardware within their boxes!!!!

When I used the PVR80 regularly, I always felt that it was the hardware letting down quite reasonable software. One of the first mods that "everyone" did was to flip the HD over to try to prevent over heating. I even fitted a temperature-controlled fan.

But there does seem to be some sort of issue with the tuners. Presumably, it' wasn't a deliberate design decision which has backfired with the 8k thing or everyone's box would have suffered. It can't even have been a quality control issue in which tuners with channels missing where put in the tuner 2 position (where there may be some redundancy) because, in this case, it seems to be the "primary" tuner that is faulty.

On the 2nd December, channel 62 will stay the same but all of the others will change so I'm holding off on the box's revival party!

Code:

Now    2nd Dec
 62       62
 66       59
 68       58
 56       61
 63       55

John.

08-11-2009, 15:12	#1
JohnON Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wirral, UK Services: Freeview, Be* ISP Posts: 190	PVR80 Upgraded to 5.7 but still no BBC1 Hi Folks, I followed the advice on my own website and upgraded to v5.7 firmware but still no BBC1 or BBC2. Doing a manual scan of channel 62 (Winter Hill) shows no signal. My TV and Humus box are both OK so I know the signal is at the aerial. Any ideas, please? Are there very early Digihomes in which even the hardware won't work? John.

08-11-2009, 21:19	#4
Chris771 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 5	Loss of Channel 62 John, It looks as though we have the same problem. I was assuming I had no signal showing on Channel 62 Multiplex 1 because I have not managed to upgrade my firmware to V5.7 and the machine could not decode because because of wrong software. However, apparently you have managed to upgrade your firmware and still have no signal. Similarly, both my Technosonic and Thomson PVRs have good signals on Channel 62. I am now even more confused. I don't suppose you have any idea why my Digihome 160 will not accept the binary file do you? Thanks chris

08-11-2009, 21:56	#5
futaura Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Norfolk Services: Sony RDR-HXD890; Vestel T816 DTR80; TalkTalk ADSL2+ Posts: 788	Deleted Last edited by futaura : 08-11-2009 at 22:14. Reason: Deleted

09-11-2009, 12:57	#10
Chris771 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 5	PVR80 Upgraded to 5.7 but still no BBC1 John, I have finally managed to upgrade my DTR 160 (see the post following on my own thread about difficulties upgrading). In my case it needed a short homemade high quality serial cable, presumably because of noise immunity problems. Once I had managed to successfully flash the firmware I did a full new install retune and immediately had a signal showing on channel 62 ( plus another one in the mid 40s which I did not have before). So, I think I may be correct in saying that unless you have the 8K COFDM upgrade working properly, your receiver will not manage to decode and reconcile Channel 62. Until I successfully completed the firmware upgrade, my receiver showed no signal on Channel 62, now it is good/very good and, once more, I have all channels. So, possibly it may be worth trying the software upgrade again. I realise that it probably has CRC Checking to prevent any corruptions, but I would not guarantee it. Regards Chris

13-11-2009, 09:32	#18
JohnON Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wirral, UK Services: Freeview, Be* ISP Posts: 190	Success! Success! With nothing to lose, I took the two tuners out and swapped them over and it worked! They were a bit fiddly to get out - I should really have taken the whole CPU board out - but they unplugged from their sockets at a bit of an angle. I think I've got record one while watching another - although I haven't tried all the channel combinations - so, rather than a duff tuner, I think it may have just been a bad connection on one of the internal multi-pin sockets. I would assume that the channels are selected digitally (rather than with an analogue voltage) so it would only take a bad connection on one of the digital signal lines to make the tuner tune to some random frequency nowhere near what it should have been. I suspect other channels which showed no signal when tuned manually will now show a signal as well. That it was channel 62 causing trouble was just a coincidence designed to confuse. John.

08-11-2009, 19:10	#2
futaura Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Norfolk Services: Sony RDR-HXD890; Vestel T816 DTR80; TalkTalk ADSL2+ Posts: 788	Not AFAIK, but I may be wrong . Have you tried a "First time installation"?

08-11-2009, 20:43	#3
JohnON Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wirral, UK Services: Freeview, Be* ISP Posts: 190	Yes, I think I've tried all the combinations I can think of: rescan with no aerial, first time installation, manual scan. I've tried removing the RF loop and plugging the aerial into both tuner 1 and tuner 2. I've installed the firmware again. It's a box I've had out on loan for 18 months and finally got it back because BBC1 and 2 had gone missing. I was looking forward to upgrading it and finally getitng to have a play with it! John.

09-11-2009, 10:54	#6
futaura Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Norfolk Services: Sony RDR-HXD890; Vestel T816 DTR80; TalkTalk ADSL2+ Posts: 788	John, I've contacted Vestel about this issue... Perhaps you or somebody else here can answer this technical question regarding CH62 on Winter Hill: what is the exact frequency it is being broadcast on? Normally CH62 would be 802MHz, but has an offset been applied on Winter Hill? 166KHz is shifted for +1 or -1 offset. So, for example, the frequency for -1 offset will be 801.834 MHz and +1 offset will be 802.166 MHz.

09-11-2009, 12:25	#8
futaura Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Norfolk Services: Sony RDR-HXD890; Vestel T816 DTR80; TalkTalk ADSL2+ Posts: 788	Me neither, and googling hasn't help much yet either . The presumption being that Winter Hill is not broadcasting CH62 on 802MHz, which is why the PVR80 is not picking it up - if we can find out for sure somehow, maybe Vestel can help. The other thing I thought of is that maybe your signal is too strong on CH62 (since it is now using 100kW) and the PVR80 can't handle it. If you have an attenuator handy to plug-in, that would prove/disprove that theory.

09-11-2009, 13:34	#11
JohnON Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wirral, UK Services: Freeview, Be* ISP Posts: 190	Thanks for the info. The upgrade does seem to be "taking" but, as you say, there might be a problem. I used to use a serial card in the PC but, for some reason, I can't get it's driver to install this time so I used a USB-serial cable instead. I'll work on getting the serial card to work again and try it that way, if I can. John.

09-11-2009, 14:06	#12
futaura Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Norfolk Services: Sony RDR-HXD890; Vestel T816 DTR80; TalkTalk ADSL2+ Posts: 788	I would think that as long as v5.7 is showing in the menus, the upgrade should have worked. I'd be surprised if there is a hardware difference, but it's strange that your box isn't working but Chris's is. If reflashing doesn't help, all I can think of is that the signal is too strong, although this hasn't exactly ever been a problem for Vestel tuners in the past . If you don't have an attentuator handy, try loosening the aerial lead so you have a not so good connection and therefore reducing signal strength.

09-11-2009, 15:19	#14
io1901 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 97	I can confirm that PVR80 on 5.7 does pick up bbc1 and bbc2 from Winter Hill

09-11-2009, 15:30	#15
JohnON Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wirral, UK Services: Freeview, Be* ISP Posts: 190	Yeah. There's probably a fault in mine somewhere. One of the cogs is slipping or a rubber band has snapped or something John.

09-11-2009, 20:10	#17
JohnON Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wirral, UK Services: Freeview, Be* ISP Posts: 190	Thanks for the continued interest . I've had an email from the person who was struggling to update his PVR80 to say he's now done it successfully and it's working 100% . I've tried the box in two locations (there's a distribution amp in the loft) so I doubt it's interference. I can't turn the amp off otherwise I lose the other channels but I've ordered a variable attenuator from Maplins so, in a couple of days, I'll put that in line and see if it makes any difference. John.

13-11-2009, 10:43	#19
futaura Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Norfolk Services: Sony RDR-HXD890; Vestel T816 DTR80; TalkTalk ADSL2+ Posts: 788	No such thing as coincidences . Glad you've got it sorted. The easiest way to test is to use PIP - if BBC1 shows in PIP and on the main picture, all should be fine, since PIP will be using one tuner while the main picture will be using the other. Believe it or not, I thought about suggesting swapping the tuners over since once could have been faulty (the one used during rescanning) while the other one was ok - that would be the only hardware issue I could think of, since I'm pretty sure there were no hardware differences on the main PCB. As you know the tuners plug-in separately, so you never know if Vestel maybe changed the spec of those slightly in different batches. As you say it could just have been a bad connection though... I've suggested whilst troubleshooting on at least one other thread that the tuners should be reseated / pressed down, but I think people thought I was mad .

13-11-2009, 11:38	#20
JohnON Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wirral, UK Services: Freeview, Be* ISP Posts: 190	Ahhh.. well, there's no PIP so it looks as though the tuner is faulty but, if I leave it out altogether, I can't scan for BBC Parliament - and maybe some others. Anyway, all channels are present after the tuner swap but, presumably, there'll be severe limitations on what can be recorded at the same time. It's only a spare box these days so it's not a problem. Incidentally, I did spot that the back panel can be removed which makes it easier to unplug the tuners! John.

13-11-2009, 12:08	#21
futaura Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Norfolk Services: Sony RDR-HXD890; Vestel T816 DTR80; TalkTalk ADSL2+ Posts: 788	IIRC, on the T810 the second tuner is always used for PIP and recording, with the first tuner being used exclusively for live tv. Not sure which one is used for channel scans, but I'm guessing the first tuner. Have you tried feeding the input of each tuner from individual aerial feeds - i.e. not using the loopthrough from tuner 1 out to tuner 2 in?

13-11-2009, 14:24	#23
JohnON Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wirral, UK Services: Freeview, Be* ISP Posts: 190	They do seem to be defined for specific functions but there does seem to be either some overlap or some sharing. With "tuner A" in the input 1 position and "tuner B" in the input 2 position, channel 62 was missing entirely. This seems to be BBC1, BBC2, BBC3, BBC4, CBBC, CBeebies, BBC News and BBC Parliament. But BBC4, CBeebies and Parliament were picked up - I think from channel 67. I swapped "tuner B" to input 1 and channel 62 scanned but, tuner A had to be in the input 2 position (ie I couldn't leave the tuner's place empty) or BBC4, CBeebies and BBC Parliament were missing. So, basically, totally confused, I put the lid on it! John.

13-11-2009, 21:56	#24
jbeavon Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Runcorn - Near Liverpool Services: Ignoramus Posts: 3,008	This may not be an issue that is entirely isolated to the T810 models. I've got a T816 displaying similar symptoms. I managed to get the channels scanned in a few days ago, but can't get them to keep coming up with a "No Signal" error. However, on the second tuner, via PIP, I can get a signal no problem at all. I've not tried swapping them round yet...but suspect I may end up with the same results, in that I'll be able to get the main tuner working fine, but the second tuner then won't work. All in all, it's a bit of a shambles from Vestel. Obviously they've used some very dodgy hardware within their boxes!!!!