[Roger5737]

Well theres songs that they really should be playing that fit with their demographic such as Jane Wiedlin's Rush Hour, Mel and Kim's Respectable.

Here's Jane's classic... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAsLDf-tYlg

Real Radio should also stick on Jimmy Nail's Ain't No Doubt as well and perhaps Elton John's I Don't Wanna Go On With You Like That.

Jimmy Nail... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iF47M3YDlg
Elton's... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAWF-b4voYQ

[Andy Carlton]

I can think of hundereds of tracks Heart 'could' be playing...but they dont due to their very tight playlists....infact the same goes with 95% of radio stations up and down the UK.

For some reason, most stations over-kill for months and even years on specific tracks of which are just a turn-off.

[Roger5737]

Originally Posted by Andy Carlton

I can think of hundereds of tracks Heart 'could' be playing...but they dont due to their very tight playlists....infact the same goes with 95% of radio stations up and down the UK.

For some reason, most stations over-kill for months and even years on specific tracks of which are just a turn-off.

Backstreet Boys - Larger than Life is a Heart track and a half too.

[Andy Carlton]

Originally Posted by Roger5737

Backstreet Boys - Larger than Life is a Heart track and a half too.

Not a bad track...which would mix nicely with N-Sync

[nobjockey]

Originally Posted by Roger5737

Well theres songs that they really should be playing that fit with their demographic such as Jane Wiedlin's Rush Hour, Mel and Kim's Respectable.

Here's Jane's classic... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAsLDf-tYlg

Real Radio should also stick on Jimmy Nail's Ain't No Doubt as well and perhaps Elton John's I Don't Wanna Go On With You Like That.

Jimmy Nail... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iF47M3YDlg
Elton's... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAWF-b4voYQ

Both good songs, but Heart don't really play a lot of 80s pop to be honest, and those two tracks never seen to test very well in audience research sessions. I've often had difficulty with finding good testing 80s songs, tracks like Tracy Chapman - Fast Car and U2 etc. always test better than the Stock Aitken Waterman style or dance stuff from that era.

So the reason they don't play it, their audience probably don't love/rate those songs enough, only songs with a big love score are played, not just ones the audience don't have much passion for.

[Andy Carlton]

Originally Posted by nobjockey

Both good songs, but Heart don't really play a lot of 80s pop to be honest, and those two tracks never seen to test very well in audience research sessions. I've often had difficulty with good testing 80s songs, tracks like Tracy Chapman - Fast Car and U2 etc. always test better than the Stock Aitken Waterman style or dance stuff from that era.

So the reason they don't play it, their audience probably don't love/rate those songs enough, only songs with a big love score are played, not just ones the audience don't have much passion for.

Whenever I hear 'Fast car' - I dive for the preset...and fast!

That track should be banned along with 'Snow Patrol - Chasing Cars, and U2 material is just simply 'depressing'

There are literally hundereds of 80's tracks of which are never EVER played on radio.

Earlier on I was listening to Signal 1....the presenter announced which was up and coming - 'Ce ce Peniston' and I knew EXACTLY which 'track' was up and coming - so it was either a case of hammering the stereo...or changing station.

[nobjockey]

Originally Posted by Andy Carlton

Whenever I hear 'Fast car' - I dive for the preset...and fast!

That track should be banned along with 'Snow Patrol - Chasing Cars, and U2 material is just simply 'depressing'

Unfortunately for you, you're in the minority, both those songs still rate massively amongst the most popular songs ever in audience research sessions.

There are literally hundereds of 80's tracks of which are never EVER played on radio.

Earlier on I was listening to Signal 1....the presenter announced which was up and coming - 'Ce ce Peniston' and I knew EXACTLY which 'track' was up and coming - so it was either a case of hammering the stereo...or changing station.

Most of the target audience of Heart tune in to hear their "favourites" not some song that barely charted 20 years ago, tbh most people could only name one song from Ce Ce Peniston, and Finally is the only one of hers they want to hear.

[Andy Carlton]

Originally Posted by nobjockey

Unfortunately for you, you're in the minority, both those songs still rate massively amongst the most popular songs ever in audience research sessions.



Most of the target audience of Heart tune in to hear their "favourites" not some song that barely charted 20 years ago, tbh most people could only name one song from Ce Ce Peniston, and Finally is the only one of hers they want to hear.

But it is just constant repetitive drivel that has been heard a million times before of which is constantly repeated.

All of these 'alleged target audience research' tests are a joke!

If these people who they 'allegedly' target only know the ONE track that is constantly repeated...then they know absolutley NOTHING about music whatsoever.

As for mentioning certain music which didn't make the top 10 at a specific time...does NOT mean people don't remember them or would not like to hear them.

WHY has radio GOT to be ALL about 'popularity' of over-played tracks anyway? There ARE tracks that wasn't so popular in the top 40...BUT are still loved and rated by many who do not have the daunting task to be stopped in the street by these audience research investigators who come up to you and inflict their repetitive drivel on to people and asking them if they like it - of which they probably agree to just to get rid of them!

[Roger5737]

Originally Posted by nobjockey

Unfortunately for you, you're in the minority, both those songs still rate massively amongst the most popular songs ever in audience research sessions.



Most of the target audience of Heart tune in to hear their "favourites" not some song that barely charted 20 years ago, tbh most people could only name one song from Ce Ce Peniston, and Finally is the only one of hers they want to hear.

But we still have this 'Every artist only had one hit' sickess on radio.

You only ever hear David Bowie's Let's Dance, normally if the listener likes one of his songs - they will at least a couple!

I teased ahead on my show that Cyndi Lauper was coming up (knowing everyone was expecting to hear Time after Time) but in fact I played Change of Heart.

I'll keep playing Jane Wiedlin's Rush Hour on my show because it does 'test' well.

[Roger5737]

Originally Posted by Andy Carlton

But it is just constant repetitive drivel that has been heard a million times before of which is constantly repeated.

All of these 'alleged target audience research' tests are a joke!

If these people who they 'allegedly' target only know the ONE track that is constantly repeated...then they know absolutley NOTHING about music whatsoever.

They are because they're paid to stay in a hotel in Bristol somewhere for 2 nights, go into a hall and rate a song from a 10 second clip. It's always been flawed because the people they choose only do it for the free food and will probably tick any box just for the sheer hell of it.

Heart should do an online test because it would gauge a much wider audience than 50 people in a room!

[nobjockey]

Originally Posted by Roger5737

But we still have this 'Every artist only had one hit' sickess on radio.

You only ever hear David Bowie's Let's Dance, normally if the listener likes one of his songs - they will at least a couple!

I teased ahead on my show that Cyndi Lauper was coming up (knowing everyone was expecting to hear Time after Time) but in fact I played Change of Heart.

You don't understand how music programming/research works blatantly. You play for the most audience on mainstream stations, imagine it this way, if you asked 100 35 year old females, which Cyndi Lauper song they'd rather hear, out of Time after Time or Change of Heart, I'd wager most, if not all would choose Time after Time, many would not even know Change of Heart, it was never a single in the Uk, never charted, just an album track.

You play to get audience, not for yourself, or your personal tastes.

[nobjockey]

Originally Posted by Roger5737

They are because they're paid to stay in a hotel in Bristol somewhere for 2 nights, go into a hall and rate a song from a 10 second clip. It's always been flawed because the people they choose only do it for the free food and will probably tick any box just for the sheer hell of it.

Heart should do an online test because it would gauge a much wider audience than 50 people in a room!

It's not done with tick boxes, or done in Bristol. It's done with several sessions, and scored with a small paddle which they turn depending on how much they like the song. People are also chosen who are the stations demographic, and are paid to take part. The identity of the station holding them is not revealed.

It may not be perfect, but its much more reliable than just programming the songs you personally like and expecting everyone else to like them.

[nobjockey]

Originally Posted by Roger5737

I'll keep playing Jane Wiedlin's Rush Hour on my show because it does 'test' well.

Sure, keep playing songs that "test well" with yourself on your bedroom station, or whatever.

I'll bet Heart have more listeners than you though.

[Roger5737]

Originally Posted by nobjockey

You don't understand how music programming/research works blatantly. You play for the most audience on mainstream stations, imagine it this way, if you asked 100 35 year old females, which Cyndi Lauper song they'd rather hear, out of Time after Time or Change of Heart, I'd wager most, if not all would choose Time after Time, many would not even know Change of Heart, it was never a single in the Uk, never charted, just an album track.

You play to get audience, not for yourself, or your personal tastes.

Just because they don't 'know' the song doesn't mean to say they won't like to hear it? That's just treating the listener as being stupid.

Before all this niche rotation broadcasting, radio in this country and worldwide was so much better - i'm sorry it's true.

There are too many Flashdance FM's at the moment TBH.

I think you'll find Change of Heart did chart too.

[Roger5737]

Originally Posted by nobjockey

Sure, keep playing songs that "test well" with yourself on your bedroom station, or whatever.

I'll bet Heart have more listeners than you though.

Oooh we have a touchy station programmer in the room do we.

No it's not bedroom FM actually I think you'll find its a bit bigger than that!

[nobjockey]

Originally Posted by Roger5737

Just because they don't 'know' the song doesn't mean to say they won't like to hear it? That's just treating the listener as being stupid.

Before all this niche rotation broadcasting, radio in this country and worldwide was so much better - i'm sorry it's true.

There are too many Flashdance FM's at the moment TBH.

I think you'll find Change of Heart did chart too.

Heart is not a targetting a specialist audience, the audience they serve (VERY successfully too) are people who tune in to hear "favourites", people who listen to Heart go to the stations to hear songs they already love, they don't want to hear unfamiliar songs, they want songs they love.

It doesn't matter how radio was before, when there was only one station in town, the playlist was a bunch of records in the corner etc. The age we live in now has a much shorter attention span, with 10 other stations on the dial to flick to, one song often causes listeners to flick to another station, you risk them not coming back, hence why radio stations are programmed much more safely these days.

When exactly did Change of Heart chart then? Not according to everyhit.com uk chart database, all of Cyndi's UK hits:

2 Cyndi Lauper Girls Just Want To Have Fun Jan 1984
3 Cyndi Lauper Time After Time Jun 1984
12 Cyndi Lauper True Colors Sep 1986
7 Cyndi Lauper I Drove All Night May 1989
15 Cyndi Lauper The World Is Stone Jun 1992
31 Cyndi Lauper That's What I Think Nov 1993
32 Cyndi Lauper Who Let In The Rain Jan 1994
4 Cyndi Lauper Hey Now (Girls Just Want To Have Fun) Sep 1994
37 Cyndi Lauper I'm Gonna Be Strong Feb 1995
39 Cyndi Lauper Come On Home Aug 1995
27 Cyndi Lauper You Don't Know Feb 1997

[AuralJunkie]

Heart will not impress me till they stop playing hackneyed old tracks over and over again and start to pick some new stuff from time to time - though I suspect that would be all "X Factor" or safe lightweight stuff.

[Andy Carlton]

Originally Posted by Roger5737

But we still have this 'Every artist only had one hit' sickess on radio.

You only ever hear David Bowie's Let's Dance, normally if the listener likes one of his songs - they will at least a couple!

I teased ahead on my show that Cyndi Lauper was coming up (knowing everyone was expecting to hear Time after Time) but in fact I played Change of Heart.

I'll keep playing Jane Wiedlin's Rush Hour on my show because it does 'test' well.

Abba was one of the biggest bands in the world in the 1970's....YET 'Dancing Queen' is the ONLY ever track they have ever released! (despite 20+ other tracks)

Hot Chocolate was massive in the 1970's....YET 'You Sexy Thing' is the ONLY track ever released! (despite 15 other released tracks)

Bryan Adams was massive in the 80's....YET - 'Summer of 69' was the ONLY track her ever released! (despite at least 10 other released tracks)

UK/British radio is the same/same/same/same old repetitive boring drivel we have heard a million times before with the same tracks played by the same artistes/bands hour in - hour out...day in...day out....month in...month out....year in....year out...

[Roger5737]

Originally Posted by Andy Carlton

Abba was one of the biggest bands in the world in the 1970's....YET 'Dancing Queen' is the ONLY ever track they have ever released! (despite 20+ other tracks)

Hot Chocolate was massive in the 1970's....YET 'You Sexy Thing' is the ONLY track ever released! (despite 15 other released tracks)

Bryan Adams was massive in the 80's....YET - 'Summer of 69' was the ONLY track her ever released! (despite at least 10 other released tracks)

UK/British radio is the same/same/same/same old repetitive boring drivel we have heard a million times before with the same tracks played by the same artistes/bands hour in - hour out...day in...day out....month in...month out....year in....year out...

I know that is why a lot of foreign stations are well received and listened to these days.

I think the best 'One Hit Wonder' has to be Stevie Wonder, he only had one hit and that was Superstition, but apparently he did have another song called Sir Duke which makes an appearance now and again?! (Forgetting his other 10 or so hits!).

As I say it's the 'Every artist only had one hit' syndrome.

[nobjockey]

Originally Posted by Andy Carlton

Abba was one of the biggest bands in the world in the 1970's....YET 'Dancing Queen' is the ONLY ever track they have ever released! (despite 20+ other tracks)

Hot Chocolate was massive in the 1970's....YET 'You Sexy Thing' is the ONLY track ever released! (despite 15 other released tracks)

Bryan Adams was massive in the 80's....YET - 'Summer of 69' was the ONLY track her ever released! (despite at least 10 other released tracks)

UK/British radio is the same/same/same/same old repetitive boring drivel we have heard a million times before with the same tracks played by the same artistes/bands hour in - hour out...day in...day out....month in...month out....year in....year out...

Actually Heart play several Abba tracks, Dancing Queen, One of Us, Lay all your love on me, Gimme Gimme Gimme, Mamma Mia have all been on rotation in the last 6 months.

Obviously they are more relevant today due to the Mamma Mia release, Hot Chocolate and Bryan Adams may have been popular 20-30 years ago, but obviously with the audience today for Heart, they are mostly irrellevant.

Fact is, its hard to find any logic to your argument, which basically comes down to "Heart should play the songs i like cos i like them, and ignore the 300 people who they are targetting who tell them otherwise". They are ASKING their audience, 35 year old women, face to face in testing sessions, not what a radio anorak on a forum at 2am is saying they should be playing.

Look at Heart London's RAJAR figures and compare it to Roger's "radio station" if you need further proof that their approach works better than yours

[Roger5737]

Originally Posted by nobjockey

Actually Heart play several Abba tracks, Dancing Queen, One of Us, Lay all your love on me, Gimme Gimme Gimme, Mamma Mia have all been on rotation in the last 6 months.

Obviously they are more relevant today due to the Mamma Mia release, Hot Chocolate and Bryan Adams may have been popular 20-30 years ago, but obviously with the audience today for Heart, they are mostly irrellevant.

Fact is, its hard to find any logic to your argument, which basically comes down to "Heart should play the songs i like cos i like them, and ignore the 300 people who they are targetting who tell them otherwise". They are ASKING their audience, 35 year old women, face to face in testing sessions, not what a radio anorack on a forum at 2am is saying they should be playing.

Look at Heart London's RAJAR figures and compare it to Roger's "radio station" if you need further proof that their approach works better than yours

But isn't there the small possibility that if you make "like" a song perhaps, just maybe perhaps others will as well!

Personally I wasn't a fan of Cyndi Lauper's Change of Heart, but I played it... no one died because of it... the listener didn't have an coronary because it was a different song... Is this what Heart are scared of, giving the listeners a coronary because a different song has played. Jeez!!!!

[Roger5737]

Originally Posted by nobjockey

Actually Heart play several Abba tracks, Dancing Queen, One of Us, Lay all your love on me, Gimme Gimme Gimme, Mamma Mia have all been on rotation in the last 6 months.

Obviously they are more relevant today due to the Mamma Mia release, Hot Chocolate and Bryan Adams may have been popular 20-30 years ago, but obviously with the audience today for Heart, they are mostly irrellevant.

Fact is, its hard to find any logic to your argument, which basically comes down to "Heart should play the songs i like cos i like them, and ignore the 300 people who they are targetting who tell them otherwise". They are ASKING their audience, 35 year old women, face to face in testing sessions, not what a radio anorak on a forum at 2am is saying they should be playing.

Look at Heart London's RAJAR figures and compare it to Roger's "radio station" if you need further proof that their approach works better than yours

Ahh... but remember Heart's demographic is also open for male listeners as they do make up a share of their listenership!

[nobjockey]

Originally Posted by Roger5737

But isn't there the small possibility that if you make "like" a song perhaps, just maybe perhaps others will as well!

Personally I wasn't a fan of Cyndi Lauper's Change of Heart, but I played it... no one died because of it... the listener didn't have an coronary because it was a different song...

No one died because of it no, but you may have lost a lot of audience if you played that on Heart, so commercially you die by playing unfamiliar non-hits like that.

Why take the risk, when your audience has already told you what they want from the station? Again, it doesn't make logical sense. It's not their brand to play unfamiliar songs, and ignoring the research is just crazyness.

Stations like Big L etc. exist for people with your tastes, Heart is not aimed at you.

[Roger5737]

Originally Posted by nobjockey

Fact is, its hard to find any logic to your argument, which basically comes down to "Heart should play the songs i like cos i like them, and ignore the 300 people who they are targetting who tell them otherwise". They are ASKING their audience, 35 year old women, face to face in testing sessions, not what a radio anorak on a forum at 2am is saying they should be playing).

Well there's very little logic to your argument as well because it can be flawed!

[nobjockey]

Originally Posted by Roger5737

Ahh... but remember Heart's demographic is also open for male listeners as they do make up a share of their listenership!

No it doesn't, Heart do not target males in the slightest. Their approach is target the females 100%, if we pick up some male listeners, and can maybe not offend them cool, but its all about the females.