My moneys gone. ATM Fraud or Fault? - Advice

ange · 07-08-2009, 17:26

Hi everyone could really use some advice.

On monday 3rd i gave my bank card to my dad and told him to take 60 out cos i was going work and was late. Anyway he did and i thought nothing more of it then yesterday 6th and when I checked my bank statement . At 13.55 the 60 pound was withdrawn which i have the receipt for, which my dad then used to pay credit card bill. but at 13.54 exactly one minute before 200 was withdrawn from the exact same cash point (a yorkshire bank cash point).

obviously the finger has to point somewere but my dad wouldnt take it. Its almost impossible to do to seperate transactions on a cashpoint anyway that quickly.

I waited for an over an hour to speak to someone in hsbc bank who filed a dispute. Today i got some woman who basically said its not fraud because its one minute before ive obviously taken it out. so on that ground they not cancelling my cards or anything like that.

Basically they not willing to do anything about it. cos i now have no money left everything left in is for direct debits coming out later on.

so they will give me the 200 back but if when they have finished there investigation they are not satifised it wasnt me they taking back the 200.

and i asked cant they check the cctv for the footage at 13.54 to see what was going on. she said thats up to be to find the footage with the police, its not the banks responsibility.

i dont know what to do.
i only work 16 hours so my wage is not fantastic so 200 doesnt seem a lot but it is.

Im working, and manageing 3 lots of voluntary work next week so im at the hosue every day between 9 and 6.
should i really inform the police.

HELPPPP

chocoholic100 · 07-08-2009, 17:30

hmm
how could money be taken out before your dad withdrew the money, what are the odds on a transaction happening like that at the very same ATM your dad happened to use 1 min later?

I think you need to possibly consider the possibility that your dad drew the money out

it is possible to complete 2 transactions in that space of time, I did it yesterday when I asked for £10 instead of £20 so I had to repeat the action again

iHelix · 07-08-2009, 17:31

It sounds very much like an error with the cash machine, but obviously I wasn't there. CCTV wouldn't prove a cash-point fault anyway.

EDIT: And as above says, it IS possible for him to have taken it out so you still need to consider that possibility.

ange · 07-08-2009, 17:32

he didnt take it out. im one hundred percent certain. he wouldnt. he has his own money. and he said he said on the bench until some woman finished using the cash point. took the 60 and then went straight into halifax to pay the bill.

my dad really isnt like that. if he wants money he would just ask me. but he doesnt so its pointless. ive got the receipt for the 60 and i have since tried to get money out ten pounds take the card and then put it back in and get more money out and i cant get one minute between i get like 2 minute gap.

chocoholic100 · 07-08-2009, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by iHelix

It sounds very much like an error with the cash machine, but obviously I wasn't there. CCTV wouldn't prove a cash-point fault anyway.

yes in the case of £200 being debited after the £60 but OP says that £200 came out before his/her dad used the machine how can that be?

chocoholic100 · 07-08-2009, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ange

he didnt take it out. im one hundred percent certain. he wouldnt. he has his own money. and he said he said on the bench until some woman finished using the cash point. took the 60 and then went straight into halifax to pay the bill.

so he saw who used the machine immediatley before him?

ange · 07-08-2009, 17:36

yes but my bank arent interested. its not there job to investigate it as fraud cos it isnt apparently. i was hoping cctv would show who was at the cashpoint at 13.54.

iHelix · 07-08-2009, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocoholic100

yes in the case of £200 being debited after the £60 but OP says that £200 came out before his/her dad used the machine how can that be?

Well then, if not a cash machine fault, there is only, really, two other possibilities:

a) You were robbed
b) Your dad took the money

But, I don't really see how you could have been robbed by someone else a minute before your dad actually used the account. It would have to be a very strange case of co-incidence.

Sorry, but I'm leaning towards your father here.

ange · 07-08-2009, 17:37

13.54 - 200
13.55 - 60

i was wondering how much the person before took out and whether its debited from the wrong account. but its yorkshire bank cash point and im with hsbc so they really not interested.

iHelix · 07-08-2009, 17:38

Did you tell your dad how much was in the account before he went to withdraw 60? If you did, didn't he realize something was amiss as there was 200 missing?

chocoholic100 · 07-08-2009, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by iHelix

Well then, if not a cash machine fault, there is only, really, two other possibilities:

a) You were robbed
b) Your dad took the money

But, I don't really see how you could have been robbed by someone else a minute before your dad actually used the account. It would have to be a very strange case of co-incidence.

Sorry, but I'm leaning towards your father here.

Im sorry but me too,
the odds on using an ATM and accessing someone elses account to debit funds must be pretty high, but for the very same accountholder or (nominated person) to come along and use the very same ATM 1 min later are going to be non existant

iHelix · 07-08-2009, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocoholic100

Im sorry but me too,
the odds on using an ATM and accessing someone elses account to debit funds must be pretty high, but for the very same accountholder or (nominated person) to come along and use the very same ATM 1 min later are going to be non existant

You are correct. The odds are un-fathomable because they're so large. OP probably doesn't want to believe that their father could have taken the money, but it's looking like a strong possibility unfortunately.

elke21 · 07-08-2009, 17:42

Usually HSBC cards only let you draw out £250 per day, so how do they explain that?

ange · 07-08-2009, 17:42

no he didnt check the balance. i checked on the morning and i was only paid on the 31st. he just withdrew 60 and asked for a recipet so he knew how much was taken out. He always does it even with his own card, always gets a receipt. i could never understand why, this time its a good job.

dancing fan · 07-08-2009, 17:43

I was just wondering - what is your daily cash withdrawal limit?

Many current accounts have a £200 daily limit. If that is the case with you, it might help you prove that it was a mistake as it would be impossible for you to have withdrawn £260 in one day from a cash point.

Edit: Just seen Elkes response - great minds think alike!

Snake_Eater · 07-08-2009, 17:45

If you have the receipt, then you can see your previous balance. But it looks like your dad has taken it.

chocoholic100 · 07-08-2009, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by elke21

Usually HSBC cards only let you draw out £250 per day, so how do they explain that?

thats a good point
I know you can request to up that amount but it has to be pre arranged

chocoholic100 · 07-08-2009, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake_Eater

If you have the receipt, then you can see your previous balance. But it looks like your dad has taken it.

not all receipts show the balance, some just state the amount withdrawn

OP I hope that there is an explanation for this and you get it resolved because It would be pretty crap if your dad had taken the money, but if you look at the info you have got t the moment it does look that way

ange · 07-08-2009, 17:48

well he didnt take the money. and if i have to i will go to the police like my dad suggests and get them to get the cctv from opposite banks and show that my dad didnt take it out. if neccessary so far i havent cos its only 200 and i wouldnt want to waste all that police resources. but if thats the only way my bank will listen then fine.

ange · 07-08-2009, 17:49

no mine doesnt show the balance never has.

chocoholic100 · 07-08-2009, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ange

well he didnt take the money. and if i have to i will go to the police like my dad suggests and get them to get the cctv from opposite banks and show that my dad didnt take it out. if neccessary so far i havent cos its only 200 and i wouldnt want to waste all that police resources. but if thats the only way my bank will listen then fine.

I would do it over £200, its a lot of money to me too

ange · 07-08-2009, 17:50

were do i find out the withdrawl limit for one day

iHelix · 07-08-2009, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ange

well he didnt take the money. and if i have to i will go to the police like my dad suggests and get them to get the cctv from opposite banks and show that my dad didnt take it out. if neccessary so far i havent cos its only 200 and i wouldnt want to waste all that police resources. but if thats the only way my bank will listen then fine.

The CCTV would not prove whether your dad took the money or not. It would only prove that he was there.

spikydog · 07-08-2009, 17:53

You disclosed your PIN number to a 3rd party.

I'm surprised the bank are even discussing the missing money with you.

chocoholic100 · 07-08-2009, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by iHelix

The CCTV would not prove whether your dad took the money or not. It would only prove that he was there.

I think if there is any other explanation, its a system fault rather than someone having a cloned card or something, possibly if the large transaction was after your dads withdrawl, but it was before which is really strange

07-08-2009, 17:26	#1
ange Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United Kingdom Services: NTL Broadband Posts: 692	My moneys gone. ATM Fraud or Fault? Hi everyone could really use some advice. On monday 3rd i gave my bank card to my dad and told him to take 60 out cos i was going work and was late. Anyway he did and i thought nothing more of it then yesterday 6th and when I checked my bank statement . At 13.55 the 60 pound was withdrawn which i have the receipt for, which my dad then used to pay credit card bill. but at 13.54 exactly one minute before 200 was withdrawn from the exact same cash point (a yorkshire bank cash point). obviously the finger has to point somewere but my dad wouldnt take it. Its almost impossible to do to seperate transactions on a cashpoint anyway that quickly. I waited for an over an hour to speak to someone in hsbc bank who filed a dispute. Today i got some woman who basically said its not fraud because its one minute before ive obviously taken it out. so on that ground they not cancelling my cards or anything like that. Basically they not willing to do anything about it. cos i now have no money left everything left in is for direct debits coming out later on. so they will give me the 200 back but if when they have finished there investigation they are not satifised it wasnt me they taking back the 200. and i asked cant they check the cctv for the footage at 13.54 to see what was going on. she said thats up to be to find the footage with the police, its not the banks responsibility. i dont know what to do. i only work 16 hours so my wage is not fantastic so 200 doesnt seem a lot but it is. Im working, and manageing 3 lots of voluntary work next week so im at the hosue every day between 9 and 6. should i really inform the police. HELPPPP

07-08-2009, 17:30	#2
chocoholic100 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,154	hmm how could money be taken out before your dad withdrew the money, what are the odds on a transaction happening like that at the very same ATM your dad happened to use 1 min later? I think you need to possibly consider the possibility that your dad drew the money out it is possible to complete 2 transactions in that space of time, I did it yesterday when I asked for £10 instead of £20 so I had to repeat the action again

07-08-2009, 17:31	#3
iHelix Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4,440	It sounds very much like an error with the cash machine, but obviously I wasn't there. CCTV wouldn't prove a cash-point fault anyway. EDIT: And as above says, it IS possible for him to have taken it out so you still need to consider that possibility.

07-08-2009, 17:32	#4
ange Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United Kingdom Services: NTL Broadband Posts: 692	he didnt take it out. im one hundred percent certain. he wouldnt. he has his own money. and he said he said on the bench until some woman finished using the cash point. took the 60 and then went straight into halifax to pay the bill. my dad really isnt like that. if he wants money he would just ask me. but he doesnt so its pointless. ive got the receipt for the 60 and i have since tried to get money out ten pounds take the card and then put it back in and get more money out and i cant get one minute between i get like 2 minute gap.

07-08-2009, 17:36	#7
ange Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United Kingdom Services: NTL Broadband Posts: 692	yes but my bank arent interested. its not there job to investigate it as fraud cos it isnt apparently. i was hoping cctv would show who was at the cashpoint at 13.54.

07-08-2009, 17:37	#9
ange Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United Kingdom Services: NTL Broadband Posts: 692	13.54 - 200 13.55 - 60 i was wondering how much the person before took out and whether its debited from the wrong account. but its yorkshire bank cash point and im with hsbc so they really not interested.

07-08-2009, 17:38	#10
iHelix Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4,440	Did you tell your dad how much was in the account before he went to withdraw 60? If you did, didn't he realize something was amiss as there was 200 missing?

07-08-2009, 17:42	#13
elke21 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,421	Usually HSBC cards only let you draw out £250 per day, so how do they explain that?

07-08-2009, 17:43	#15
dancing fan Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 422	I was just wondering - what is your daily cash withdrawal limit? Many current accounts have a £200 daily limit. If that is the case with you, it might help you prove that it was a mistake as it would be impossible for you to have withdrawn £260 in one day from a cash point. Edit: Just seen Elkes response - great minds think alike!

07-08-2009, 17:45	#16
Snake_Eater Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 385	If you have the receipt, then you can see your previous balance. But it looks like your dad has taken it.

07-08-2009, 17:48	#19
ange Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United Kingdom Services: NTL Broadband Posts: 692	well he didnt take the money. and if i have to i will go to the police like my dad suggests and get them to get the cctv from opposite banks and show that my dad didnt take it out. if neccessary so far i havent cos its only 200 and i wouldnt want to waste all that police resources. but if thats the only way my bank will listen then fine.

07-08-2009, 17:49	#20
ange Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United Kingdom Services: NTL Broadband Posts: 692	no mine doesnt show the balance never has.

07-08-2009, 17:50	#22
ange Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United Kingdom Services: NTL Broadband Posts: 692	were do i find out the withdrawl limit for one day

07-08-2009, 17:53	#24
spikydog Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Location: Location Services: 21 miles, Little Chef, Burger King Posts: 361	You disclosed your PIN number to a 3rd party. I'm surprised the bank are even discussing the missing money with you.