Granada change over - Freeview

PeterF · 19-09-2009, 15:55

Hi
I recently picked up a message on Granada TV which mentions that we should re-turn our digital tvs and freeview boxes from 30 Sept in order to make best use of "new services" and channels. I thought that Winterhill was not due to switch until Nov/Dec. Anyone else seen this and what does it mean?

rgds

Peter

kev · 19-09-2009, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterF

Hi
I recently picked up a message on Granada TV which mentions that we should re-turn our digital tvs and freeview boxes from 30 Sept in order to make best use of "new services" and channels. I thought that Winterhill was not due to switch until Nov/Dec. Anyone else seen this and what does it mean?

rgds

Peter

Unfortunately you have three major retunes to perform before Christmas.

September 30 - This is a nationwide retune event as a number of channels switch multiplexes and channel numbers - namely ITV3, ITV4, Channel 5, and in Wales S4C~ - You will need to retune to continue receiving these channels - This also effects areas which have also switched (e.g. Borders) and areas yet to switch (e.g. Central).
http://tvretune.co.uk

November 11 - BBC TWO Analogue ceases, BBC multiplex changes frequencies and increases in power - You will need to retune to continue receiving BBC services
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/when_do_i_switch/granada

December 2 - All analogue services ceases, all digital services (except the BBC) increase in power and switch frequencies - you will need to do a retune to continue receiving most channels
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/when_do_i_switch/granada

Mark C · 19-09-2009, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by kev

November 11 - BBC TWO Analogue ceases, BBC multiplex changes frequencies and increases in power - You will need to retune to continue receiving BBC services
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/when_do_i_switch/granada

Nov 4th in Granadaland, not the 11th

SimonBlackham · 19-09-2009, 16:12

At Winter Hill - does the DVB/T2 HD MUX start on the December 2nd switchover date - or later?

Are there any firm dates yet for the start of the DVB/T2 HD MUX in other post DSO regions ?

Dj-Toonz · 19-09-2009, 16:38

Yep, Winter Hill is the first Transmitter to start broadcasting digital HD on Wednesday December the 2nd, the same time as the Digital switch over

kev · 19-09-2009, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark C

Nov 4th in Granadaland, not the 11th

My bad - the copy and paste from the digital uk site went a bit nuts!

matlane · 19-09-2009, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj-Toonz

Yep, Winter Hill is the first Transmitter to start broadcasting digital HD on Wednesday December the 2nd, the same time as the Digital switch over

Is there any news yet on the availability and price of Freeview HD receivers?

I live in the Granada region, but as yet haven't seen anything advertsing the fact that Freeview HD starts in December.

Nigel Goodwin · 19-09-2009, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by matlane

Is there any news yet on the availability and price of Freeview HD receivers?

As in the various threads about it, basically next year - with a very slight chance of small quantities late this year.

hedgidj · 20-09-2009, 05:27

Does anyone know if MPEG4 compatable PC reception cards will pick it up? I have two and this would be an easy 'way in' although I have Freesat I would still like to see it through the aerial for interest sake and having my old Sky HD box connected just for channel 4 HD is a bit over the top and will be no good once my blue card stops working.

Lore · 20-09-2009, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by hedgidj

Does anyone know if MPEG4 compatable PC reception cards will pick it up? I have two and this would be an easy 'way in' although I have Freesat I would still like to see it through the aerial for interest sake and having my old Sky HD box connected just for channel 4 HD is a bit over the top and will be no good once my blue card stops working.

Not unless they have DVB-T2 as well, which is very unlikely.

Phil Owens · 20-09-2009, 08:42

I get my signal from Winter Hill. My question is.
The September 30th retune has to be done after midday?
My problem is I will be at work until 8:30pm, I normally set my PVR to record stuff when I'm at work so will there be any point recording anything or will I just have to miss out that day.?

Mark C · 20-09-2009, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Owens

I get my signal from Winter Hill. My question is.
The September 30th retune has to be done after midday?
My problem is I will be at work until 8:30pm, I normally set my PVR to record stuff when I'm at work so will there be any point recording anything or will I just have to miss out that day.?

Reception of BBC TV channels, plus ITV 1 and C4 should be unaffected, it's only C5, BBC Radio, ITV 4 that are affected.

Phil Owens · 20-09-2009, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark C

Reception of BBC TV channels, plus ITV 1 and C4 should be unaffected, it's only C5, BBC Radio, ITV 4 that are affected.

Good, I'll take a chance and set it to record.

TheAmazingDanny · 20-09-2009, 09:18

Sorry but.... why would they start broadcasting on December 2nd in HD if there's nobody out there to pick it up.....?

Phil Owens · 20-09-2009, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAmazingDanny

Sorry but.... why would they start broadcasting on December 2nd in HD if there's nobody out there to pick it up.....?

The date is correct, but I agree 100%, I don't see the point as there are no HD boxes in the shops yet.

Nigel Goodwin · 20-09-2009, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAmazingDanny

Sorry but.... why would they start broadcasting on December 2nd in HD if there's nobody out there to pick it up.....?

Because it's a rushed bodged idea - and should never have happened - DTT is no place for HD.

The HD date for Granada is set by DSO, it's really nothing to do with HD on it's own - but there's no way you can sell boxes, if there's nothing to receive, you need the broadcasts first.

Consider December 2nd just test transmissions, ready for the actual 'launch' sometime in 2010.

For anyone who remembers Teletext starting, and colour for that matter, there were no sets available then either.

Mark C · 20-09-2009, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Because it's a rushed bodged idea - and should never have happened - DTT is no place for HD.

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Consider December 2nd just test transmissions, ready for the actual 'launch' sometime in 2010.

For anyone who remembers Teletext starting, and colour for that matter, there were no sets available then either.

Indeed. NICAM was running from BBC 1 Crystal Palace about 3-4 years in advance of any receivers being available.
Having DVB-T2 does (as it did with Teletext and NICAM) allow the manufacturers to have access to 'real' signals to develop and refine their receivers.

Nigel Goodwin · 20-09-2009, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark C

Indeed. NICAM was running from BBC 1 Crystal Palace about 3-4 years in advance of any receivers being available.
Having DVB-T2 does (as it did with Teletext and NICAM) allow the manufacturers to have access to 'real' signals to develop and refine their receivers.

I forgot to mention NICAM

kev · 20-09-2009, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Owens

The date is correct, but I agree 100%, I don't see the point as there are no HD boxes in the shops yet.

IIRC Sky Digital and On Digital were launched before you could actually get your hands on a receiver - having transmissions in place also allows dealers to demonstrate their wares when they do become available, and also allow the broadcasters time to remove any last minute glitches.

Dj-Toonz · 20-09-2009, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by matlane

Is there any news yet on the availability and price of Freeview HD receivers?

I live in the Granada region, but as yet haven't seen anything advertsing the fact that Freeview HD starts in December.

The article was in a copy of wotsat I read, I'll give you the link http://blog.wotsat.com/page/whatsat?...d_to_launch_on

The headlines:

* A firm date for the arrival of HD in Granada region from the Winter Hill transmitter - December 2
* The Crystal Palace transmitter will be upgraded in December, but no launch date yet for Freeview HD in London (pre-Christmas or early 2010?)
* Four other main transmitters to receive HD upgrades in early 2010

"The plan is still to launch Freeview HD on December 2nd at the Winter Hill transmitter serving Manchester and Liverpool. The plan has always been to roll Freeview HD out around the country following switchover and Winter Hill was selected as the first achievable transmitter. There will need to be a retrospective upgrade of regions that have already switched.

The originally mentioned date of November came from the fact that Winter Hill starts to switch over in November. But it was quickly realised that the BBC's second Multiplex (Mux B) that is being converted for Freeview HD actually switches over on 2nd December at Winter Hill.

The March 2010 date in the Ofcom document is simply the last backstop date by when Winter Hill has to be on air to comply with our licence conditions. They've built in a contingency (as already happens in switchover licences).

The BBC has been working on plans to deliver early upgrades to some stations (serving high populations) that are late in the switchover programme and would otherwise have to wait long for Freeview HD.

One example is London that switches over in 2012 but we're planning to upgrade its Crystal Palace transmitter in December this year. There are another four main transmitters that we plan to upgrade in the first half of 2010. We can give the names and dates of these transmitters in a little while when plans are a bit firmer. We are also planning an upgrade to the Digital UK postcode database, which will tell viewers when they can expect their transmitter to be upgraded to Freeview HD.

Although everything is still on track against plans, there are significant technical and contractual challenges - not least to get transmission and domestic receiver equipment through design, development and delivery stages within an ambitious timescale. As with any major technical project, there is always a risk of slippage due to circumstances beyond anyone's control. However, there is industry-wide commitment to rolling out Freeview HD as soon as possible, and good progress is being made on all fronts."

& there's no prices or freeview HD boxes out yet, be next year when we should start seeing Freeview HD boxes & maybe IDTV's with Freeview HD built in

Mark C · 20-09-2009, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj-Toonz

There are another four main transmitters that we plan to upgrade in the first half of 2010. We can give the names and dates of these transmitters in a little while when plans are a bit firmer.

I've already seen the names mentioned in here:-

Lichfield (W Midlands, same coverage area as nearby Sutton Coldfield)
Emley Moor (West and South Yorks)
Pontop Pike (Newcastle area)
Black Hill (W Cen Scotland)

Dj-Toonz · 20-09-2009, 12:56

Here's another post I Found about the HD broadcasts

National retune will be the first step to Freeview HD

Five, ITV4 and some BBC radio channels will move on September 30 to clear space for the forthcoming launch of Freeview HD - so it's time to retune.

The move will also bring Five to more than 500,000 UK homes for the first time as it moves onto a PSB multiplex (Mux 2) available through both main and relay transmitters.

The Freeview broadcasts of BBC Radio 1 - 4, 1Xtra, 5 Live, 5 Sports Extra, 6 Music, 7, Asian Network and World Service will also move to PSB multiplexes.

However, ITV4 will be moving to a commercial multiplex (Mux A), so viewers using relay transmitters won't be able to watch it any more.

The immediate consequence for viewers is that everyone with a Freevie receiver will need to retune on September 30 to continue receiving the affected channels.

Ilse Howling, managing director of Freeview wants to get viewers into the habit of regularly retuning to see what new channels are available.

"Making Five universally available at the point of switchover is great news for viewers and just one of the benefits in the pipeline for Freeview," she said.

"Many of our viewers regularly retune but we want to make sure everyone shares the benefits of our channels and services. In the same way you would regularly check tyre pressure and keep water levels topped up on a car, get into the habit of retuning your digital box, Freeview+ recorder or digital TV from time-to-time.

"It is a simple process and takes only a few minutes but anyone who needs further assistance will be able to visit a website to read guides on how to retune or phone an automated helpline for advice."

There will also be an onscreen campaign across the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Five to remind viewers of the need to retune.

Freeview HD will launch on December 2 in the Granada region (Winter Hill transmitter and relays) and is expected to arrive in London and several other areas in early 2010.

It will use Mux B, which will be upgraded to the new DVB-T2 standard, and will carry up to five channels for reception on new Freeview HD boxes.

UKfreeTV has a good - if complex - breakdown of the ongoing switch to Freeview HD.

Ray Cathode · 20-09-2009, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Because it's a rushed bodged idea - and should never have happened - DTT is no place for HD.

DTT could be a good place for HD as long as the Government weren't hell bent on selling off all the country's scarce spectrum. 2 new multiplexes dedicated to HD would have ensured the transition to DVB-T2 happened quite quickly and kept the cost of spectrum down.

Removing SD channels and reducing their bit rate to squeeze in an HD mux was always a loony Ofcon and BBC idea. (The BBC allowed this to happen with ITV and C4 being opposed).

I doubt very much whether an economic case can be made for putting HD on DTT now unless it is Pay TV. The spectrum already costs over 20 times as much as satellite and HD uses at least 4 times as much as SD.

As the BBC has made clear last week, encryption will not be allowed on the PSB HD mux. Even if they use DRM, I can't see what will be broadcast on Freeview HD outside the peak evening hours. I think blank screens are the most likely.

Alternatively, if the commercial channels switch to SD, they could be broadcasting 4 separate channels in each HD slot. That is a much better economic proposition even though it will be slapper channels and teleshopping.

Hardly a good advert for HD though.

Nigel Goodwin · 20-09-2009, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Cathode

DTT could be a good place for HD as long as the Government weren't hell bent on selling off all the country's scarce spectrum. 2 new multiplexes dedicated to HD would have ensured the transition to DVB-T2 happened quite quickly and kept the cost of spectrum down.

I would disagree, even two multiplexes wouldn't give any real quantity of HD - far better leaving DTT as SD, and HD via satellite for those who want HD.

Bear in mind the ONLY reason for DTT and DSO is for the government to make a fortune selling off the released spectrum.

albertd · 20-09-2009, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Owens

I get my signal from Winter Hill. My question is.
The September 30th retune has to be done after midday?
My problem is I will be at work until 8:30pm, I normally set my PVR to record stuff when I'm at work so will there be any point recording anything or will I just have to miss out that day.?

Not certain, but I think I saw somewhere that there will be a 4 day overlap period.

19-09-2009, 15:55	#1
PeterF Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chester Services: AOL broadband,Sony Bravia LCD, Humax 9200tb Posts: 100	Granada change over Hi I recently picked up a message on Granada TV which mentions that we should re-turn our digital tvs and freeview boxes from 30 Sept in order to make best use of "new services" and channels. I thought that Winterhill was not due to switch until Nov/Dec. Anyone else seen this and what does it mean? rgds Peter

19-09-2009, 16:12	#4
SimonBlackham Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Forest - BH23 Services: Rowridge--Vbox~(Sat=)TuTVA~6dBx4 /1>--Matsui /2>--or-- SH.&.Mendip--iDTV Posts: 6,627	At Winter Hill - does the DVB/T2 HD MUX start on the December 2nd switchover date - or later? Are there any firm dates yet for the start of the DVB/T2 HD MUX in other post DSO regions ?

19-09-2009, 16:38	#5
Dj-Toonz Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester , UK Services: Three Hsdpa broadband & sky+ hd Plus Freeview Posts: 148	Yep, Winter Hill is the first Transmitter to start broadcasting digital HD on Wednesday December the 2nd, the same time as the Digital switch over

20-09-2009, 05:27	#9
hedgidj Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Central Lancashire Services: Tosh 32AV555DB, Sky 6mix+HD, Freesat+, Freeview+, O2 14Mb BB Posts: 1,405	Does anyone know if MPEG4 compatable PC reception cards will pick it up? I have two and this would be an easy 'way in' although I have Freesat I would still like to see it through the aerial for interest sake and having my old Sky HD box connected just for channel 4 HD is a bit over the top and will be no good once my blue card stops working.

20-09-2009, 08:42	#11
Phil Owens Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Wrexham Services: AOL Broadband , Sky, Freeview ... Wii Number 2017 1102 3127 7409 Posts: 2,817	I get my signal from Winter Hill. My question is. The September 30th retune has to be done after midday? My problem is I will be at work until 8:30pm, I normally set my PVR to record stuff when I'm at work so will there be any point recording anything or will I just have to miss out that day.?

20-09-2009, 09:18	#14
TheAmazingDanny Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Services: Pace Sky+ HD :: Sky+ PVR3 Multiroom :: Sky Broadband 16MB :: Sky Talk Posts: 1,471	Sorry but.... why would they start broadcasting on December 2nd in HD if there's nobody out there to pick it up.....?

20-09-2009, 12:56	#22
Dj-Toonz Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester , UK Services: Three Hsdpa broadband & sky+ hd Plus Freeview Posts: 148	Here's another post I Found about the HD broadcasts National retune will be the first step to Freeview HD Five, ITV4 and some BBC radio channels will move on September 30 to clear space for the forthcoming launch of Freeview HD - so it's time to retune. The move will also bring Five to more than 500,000 UK homes for the first time as it moves onto a PSB multiplex (Mux 2) available through both main and relay transmitters. The Freeview broadcasts of BBC Radio 1 - 4, 1Xtra, 5 Live, 5 Sports Extra, 6 Music, 7, Asian Network and World Service will also move to PSB multiplexes. However, ITV4 will be moving to a commercial multiplex (Mux A), so viewers using relay transmitters won't be able to watch it any more. The immediate consequence for viewers is that everyone with a Freevie receiver will need to retune on September 30 to continue receiving the affected channels. Ilse Howling, managing director of Freeview wants to get viewers into the habit of regularly retuning to see what new channels are available. "Making Five universally available at the point of switchover is great news for viewers and just one of the benefits in the pipeline for Freeview," she said. "Many of our viewers regularly retune but we want to make sure everyone shares the benefits of our channels and services. In the same way you would regularly check tyre pressure and keep water levels topped up on a car, get into the habit of retuning your digital box, Freeview+ recorder or digital TV from time-to-time. "It is a simple process and takes only a few minutes but anyone who needs further assistance will be able to visit a website to read guides on how to retune or phone an automated helpline for advice." There will also be an onscreen campaign across the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Five to remind viewers of the need to retune. Freeview HD will launch on December 2 in the Granada region (Winter Hill transmitter and relays) and is expected to arrive in London and several other areas in early 2010. It will use Mux B, which will be upgraded to the new DVB-T2 standard, and will carry up to five channels for reception on new Freeview HD boxes. UKfreeTV has a good - if complex - breakdown of the ongoing switch to Freeview HD.