[JB1601]

Bit of a random query - but when the switch-off of analogue is scheduled for "2nd December", when does that actually happen? Very early on the actual day or at the very end when it's actually 3rd December?

Just wondering!

[Furnell]

Very simple answer here, but id say it would be all done and dusted by 6am on the 2nd..

[Dear Viewer]

The ball starts rolling just after midnight on 2 Dec.

I'm a little confused now with regard to the 4th November date.

BBC2 Analogue on C62 will be switched off - that follows the current routine - but what's not clear to me is will a multiplex be replacing it on the same day, or will one start there on the later date ie 2nd December.

Most of it will be done and dusted by 6am, but there a few relays that will be still switching up until the early evening.

[SimonBlackham]

PSB-1 MUX will start up almost immediately - ie the full bouquet of BBC channels. Thus you will lose only BBC2 until you get the new PSB-1 MUX working. If you have Freeview already - then you may lose the PSB-1 MUX if your box is not capable of picking up the new mode (QAM64 - 8K).

Personally I am surprised that they did not take the opportunity to switch BBC-B (301/302 etc) to 8K temporarily to let people know they will have a problem.

On the other hand - the latest re-tune caused problems - so why make it worse!

Perhaps the HD MUX can be started early on 64QAM 2K then 8K in the 'extra HD MUX' areas to give the population a clue without causing too much grief!

ie "This is the new service getting ready for HD - "You should be able to pick it up on your old boxes until HD testing is launched on 'date'.
If it disappears on 'date' then your box is not capable of receiving the new services after DSO (on 'date') and will need updating or replacing by then.
You may wish to replace it with a Freeview HD box in time for the launch of HD services here on 'date' "

[Anti-Static]

As stated above, Winter Hill changes will commence from just after midnight, along with the large relays (Saddleworth, Storeton, Lancaster and Pendle).
The small relays will start to be brought on-line from 9am and continue throughout the day until about 4pm.

[*MikeB*]

Who uses Storeton though? I live in Wirral about a mile or 2 from Storeton and everyone just points their aerial at Winter Hill, I don't see the point.

[Dear Viewer]

Originally Posted by *MikeB*

Who uses Storeton though? I live in Wirral about a mile or 2 from Storeton and everyone just points their aerial at Winter Hill, I don't see the point.

Storeton appears to serve a double purpose for DSO, as a blind spot relay for both Moel-y-Parc (ITV Wales) and Winter Hill (ITV Granada) services.

[mrdtv]

Originally Posted by Dear Viewer

Storeton appears to serve a double purpose for DSO, as a blind spot relay for both Moel-y-Parc (ITV Wales) and Winter Hill (ITV Granada) services.

Storeton is used extensively in Liverpool. You can see both Storeton and Moel-y-Parc masts from parts of Liverpool bordering the Mersey. Analogue PAL from Winter Hill is problematic in many areas there. You can get DTT easily from Storeton and Moel-y-Parc and after the complex switchover in N Wales & the North West, Storeton, MyP and WH will all storm into Liverpool and many parts of the NW.

Retuning for DSO could be very complex in the NW and a bonanza for installers!

[Dear Viewer]

Originally Posted by mrdtv

Storeton is used extensively in Liverpool. You can see both Storeton and Moel-y-Parc masts from parts of Liverpool bordering the Mersey. Analogue PAL from Winter Hill is problematic in many areas there. You can get DTT easily from Storeton and Moel-y-Parc and after the complex switchover in N Wales & the North West, Storeton, MyP and WH will all storm into Liverpool and many parts of the NW.

Retuning for DSO could be very complex in the NW and a bonanza for installers!

I used to live in Seaforth in the early nineties. I recall using the Winter Hill transmitter by default, with its channels at the higher end of the 21-69 range (before Channel 5), and the Storeton channels using the lower end.

I'm now living in Southport. It would be interesting to see if the Moel-y-Parc signal reaches us when they increase their power after full switchover from late November for that transmitter.

[a01020304]

considering there is less than 1 month till BBC2 dissapers I have not seen any on screen messages either visually or vocally that the switchoff is happening.

plus
as we already get the full freeview package could they not just switch off all channels at once?

[SimonBlackham]

Originally Posted by a01020304

as we already get the full freeview package could they not just switch off all channel at once?

...what about those who don't yet get Freeview? The phased change-over is to let them set up their system without losing analogue in the mean time.

[Dear Viewer]

Originally Posted by a01020304

considering there is less than 1 month till BBC2 dissapers I have not seen any on screen messages either visually or vocally that the switchoff is happening.

plus
as we already get the full freeview package could they not just switch off all channels at once?

I suppose they could, but switching off the one channel serves as a final warning to the 'analogue till I die' brigade that the switchover is happening and you've four weeks before you lose the rest.

BTW, seen the odd onscreen message on Five analogue. You'd have thought they'd be showing them frequently especially on BBC2.

Maybe you just miss them through bad timing.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Dear Viewer

I suppose they could, but switching off the one channel serves as a final warning to the 'analogue till I die' brigade that the switchover is happening and you've four weeks before you lose the rest.

Oh yeah, good idea - NOT - what about the tens of thousands of people with zero freeview coverage.

As it is, it's going to be utter chaos having only four weeks to try and sort out tens of thousands of new Freeview viewers - how could you do it during a single day?.

[mrdtv]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Oh yeah, good idea - NOT - what about the tens of thousands of people with zero freeview coverage.

As it is, it's going to be utter chaos having only four weeks to try and sort out tens of thousands of new Freeview viewers - how could you do it during a single day?.

Tens of thousands of new Freeview viewers = business opportunity!

However I agree Winter Hill is going to be problematic because of the large number of homes, the 70 relays, and the interplay with the high power switchover in North Wales just before and in parallel.

[Dear Viewer]

Tens of thousands with zero freeview coverage, eh?!

Well I suppose that would be true, if they just kept freeview (full or partial) only to the transmitters and relays that had it before switchover.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Dear Viewer

Tens of thousands with zero freeview coverage, eh?!

Well I suppose that would be true, if they just kept freeview (full or partial) only to the transmitters and relays that had it before switchover.

Of course it would be true - which is why they can't just switch the analogue transmitters off in one go - four weeks looks wildly optimistic!.

[belleville1]

Originally Posted by mrdtv

Tens of thousands of new Freeview viewers = business opportunity!

However I agree Winter Hill is going to be problematic because of the large number of homes, the 70 relays, and the interplay with the high power switchover in North Wales just before and in parallel.

With the addition of the Channel M multiplex and the new HD services, this is probably the most interesting switchover to date - I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about it up to now.

I haven't seen any on-screen messages either, but I haven't watched much telly lately, let alone analogue telly. My town has been plastered with pink lamp-post signs depicting that odd robot character, though.

Roll on November!

[Dear Viewer]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Of course it would be true - which is why they can't just switch the analogue transmitters off in one go - four weeks looks wildly optimistic!.

I wasn't talking about switching off, every analogue signal in one go, like the U.S., for instance.

This thread concerns only one region and the current routine followed to complete switchover, not the whole system. I realise the reasons not to switch the whole system in one go here.

[SimonBlackham]

Originally Posted by Dear Viewer

I wasn't talking about switching off, every analogue signal in one go, like the U.S., for instance.

This thread concerns only one region and the current routine followed to complete switchover, not the whole system. I realise the reasons not to switch the whole system in one go here.

The reasons given by us apply for one region !

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by SimonBlackham

The reasons given by us apply for one region !

And was what I was referring to.

[jamie1992]

Originally Posted by SimonBlackham

PSB-1 MUX will start up almost immediately - ie the full bouquet of BBC channels. Thus you will lose only BBC2 until you get the new PSB-1 MUX working. If you have Freeview already - then you may lose the PSB-1 MUX if your box is not capable of picking up the new mode (QAM64 - 8K).

Personally I am surprised that they did not take the opportunity to switch BBC-B (301/302 etc) to 8K temporarily to let people know they will have a problem.

On the other hand - the latest re-tune caused problems - so why make it worse!

What I don't get is how the channels will be arranged on the muxes during the 1 month interim period.
Pre-DSO muxes have their channels distributed differently to post-DSO ones, so if - as I assume will happen - existing pre-DSO MUX1 is turned off on 4th November and new post-DSO PSB1 comes online, it seems that some channels on PSB1 will have duplicate versions until the rest of the old muxes are shut off?


Btw, here's a few analogue caption screenshots:

Moel-y-Parc (received out-of-area in Manchester, hence the bad reception):

BBC1 caption:
http://sites.google.com/site/jamiep8...el-y-parc1.png

S4C caption in Welsh:
http://sites.google.com/site/jamiep8...-y-parc2c4.png

------------
Winter Hill:

Channel 5:
http://sites.google.com/site/jamiep8...terhill1c5.png

[Ray Cathode]

Originally Posted by jamie1992

it seems that some channels on PSB1 will have duplicate versions until the rest of the old muxes are shut off?

This has already happened elsewhere. Redruth & Huntshaw Cross had duplicate FIVEs for several months.

Granada will have duplicate 301/302s, BBC FOUR/CBeebies, BBC Parliament and BBC radios, all will be in the 800s between stage 1 and stage 2, because BBC2 analogue and Mux 1 will close down to be replaced by BBC A.

It would be better to switch off ITV or C4 analogue and replace Mux 2 with D3&4 at stage 1.

[SimonBlackham]

Originally Posted by Ray Cathode

It would be better to switch off ITV or C4 analogue and replace Mux 2 with D3&4 at stage 1.

...but then ITV or CH4 viewer numbers would plummet in the interim month - NOT what a commercial channel wants!

The current arrangement means that only BBC2 is lost to those who haven't yet switched.

With the latest MUX re-arrangements there will be very little duplication for those that have gone digital. It will be interesting to see if they change the BBC-B MUX at the start to the current post-DSO form - or stop it and start DVB-T2 test transmissions?

Currently (at Stockland Hill) PSB-3 (BBC-B) MUX is only transmitting numbered services (in the 800s) with screens saying the radios and other channels have moved* with just 302 and 305 being transmitted.
(NB the Communty Channel screen says 'Unfortunately The Community Channel is no longer available on Freeview in this area. ...' and is on the iDTV)

PS PSB-1 (BBC-A) MUX is transmitting ALL the other BBC radio and TV channels (except 303 which is no longer required) - and five moved from PSB-3 (BBC-B) to PSB-2 (D3&4) at the end of September.

*this is as from the Astratec box (which is currently not connected) - the IDTV does not seem to have stored the 'moved' screens.

[bayards]

Originally Posted by jamie1992

--snip--

Btw, here's a few analogue caption screenshots:

Moel-y-Parc (received out-of-area in Manchester, hence the bad reception):

BBC1 caption:
http://sites.google.com/site/jamiep8...el-y-parc1.png

S4C caption in Welsh:
http://sites.google.com/site/jamiep8...-y-parc2c4.png

------------
Winter Hill:

Channel 5:
http://sites.google.com/site/jamiep8...terhill1c5.png

Sorry but the links not working for me - would love to see them BTW!
H

[SimonBlackham]

Originally Posted by jamie1992

Btw, here's a few analogue caption screenshots:

Moel-y-Parc (received out-of-area in Manchester, hence the bad reception):

BBC1 caption:
http://sites.google.com/site/jamiep8...el-y-parc1.png

S4C caption in Welsh:
http://sites.google.com/site/jamiep8...-y-parc2c4.png

------------
Winter Hill:

Channel 5:
http://sites.google.com/site/jamiep8...terhill1c5.png

... Jamie1992 - you need to save the links without the internal '...' replacement for them to work.