ITV1 West Country - stream errors? - Freesat

Chris.Day · 18-10-2009, 19:01

Are there any VideoReDo users on here?

I've noticed that trying to edit recordings from ITV1 West Country (i.e. the only ITV regional variation with decent quality) with VideoReDo, VideoReDo is having to insert video frames throughout the recordings to keep the audio and video in sync.

This is even though there were zero errors logged by the recording application.

I just wondered if anybody else has seen this? I don't think it's a reception issue, due to the zero TS errors, but I guess there could be problems occurring on the PC when writing the file.

BrianWescombe · 18-10-2009, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris.Day

Are there any VideoReDo users on here?

I've noticed that trying to edit recordings from ITV1 West Country (i.e. the only ITV regional variation with decent quality) with VideoReDo, VideoReDo is having to insert video frames throughout the recordings to keep the audio and video in sync.

This is even though there were zero errors logged by the recording application.

I just wondered if anybody else has seen this? I don't think it's a reception issue, due to the zero TS errors, but I guess there could be problems occurring on the PC when writing the file.

I've noticed that too with Video Redo, and I also noticed that the football 'jumped' a bit during recent England games.

Chris.Day · 18-10-2009, 21:00

Glad it's not just me then.

Are you using DVBViewer?

Frank1 · 19-10-2009, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris.Day

Are there any VideoReDo users on here?

I've noticed that trying to edit recordings from ITV1 West Country (i.e. the only ITV regional variation with decent quality) with VideoReDo, VideoReDo is having to insert video frames throughout the recordings to keep the audio and video in sync.

Not tried VideoReDo yet but I have noticed this effect on the video many times on WCountry ITV1..
Must be a "fault" at the multiplexer.
Frank

BrianWescombe · 20-10-2009, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris.Day

Glad it's not just me then.

Are you using DVBViewer?

no, I was watching on the telly downstairs with a Sky box. Definitely some frame errors during the games I saw.

amstereofan · 20-10-2009, 21:30

Ah I never bother with videoredo now, I use the excellent TMPGenc Xpresss. This is the best prog out there for video editing

Chris.Day · 01-11-2009, 12:54

It looks like More4 has similar problems. Recordings appear to be okay when recorded by DVBViewer (0 TS discontinuities) yet when I run them through VideoReDo I'm getting problems. They're not serious glitches, but it's annoying that I can't see what's causing them.

I'm recording on a dedicated server so it could be any one of these:
1) Fault at encoding/multiplexing stage, so "whole transponder TS" CRCs are fine but the actual data within is screwed up
2) Problem with reception - unlikely I think, or DVBViewer would see it and log it.
3) Problem with card/drivers - again unlikely for same reason as (2)
4) Problem with disk writing stage (buffer overflow, disk error) - this is the one that concerns me although I believe that DVBViewer would log if it suffered a buffer overflow and no disk errors appear in the system logs.
5) Problem with network filecopy - but checked md5sums on some bad files that are still on the server and they check out okay

I believe that it's (1) but at the same time I find it hard to believe that such a fault would go unfixed for so long. And it's not just one transponder because More4 and ITV1 W Country are on different transponders.

grahamlthompson · 01-11-2009, 15:00

Could this be related to bitrate. ITV 1 West Country is nearly twice the bitrate of the other ITV regions at 6060 bpps. It's also 30% higher than the BBC channels. Try changing encoder quality in tools/options/streamoutput to high.

Chris.Day · 08-11-2009, 22:45

I wonder if this is/was the same problem?
http://www.hummy.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6108

I noticed that watching live in DVBViewer gave the same problems. Also tried with a Pinnacle PCTV 4000i card, so it's not a driver issue with dropped frames.

The only thing left to try is to set up a DVB-S card on my Windows 7 system and see if the problems occur there. I'm running all my DVB-S through a Windows Server 2003 box.

I'm fairly confident that it's a fault with the encoders, and it's so subtle that most people don't see it, and also I wonder how many people are actually watching that stream? I never noticed it until I started to process some recordings with VideoReDo, but now that I know it's happening, I see it when watching live too.

brush2805 · 09-11-2009, 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Could this be related to bitrate. ITV 1 West Country is nearly twice the bitrate of the other ITV regions at 6060 bpps. It's also 30% higher than the BBC channels. Try changing encoder quality in tools/options/streamoutput to high.

Why does ITV West Country have this high bit rate?

Scrapanatchi · 09-11-2009, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by brush2805

Why does ITV West Country have this high bit rate?

It was/is feeding the analogue transmitter in the area, so should go back to normal quality soon

Chris.Day · 09-11-2009, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapanatchi

It was/is feeding the analogue transmitter in the area, so should go back to normal quality soon

It just serves as a good example that the powers that be consider crap quality to be unacceptable on analogue but no problem for digital.

BrianWescombe · 11-11-2009, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris.Day

I wonder if this is/was the same problem?
http://www.hummy.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6108

I noticed that watching live in DVBViewer gave the same problems. Also tried with a Pinnacle PCTV 4000i card, so it's not a driver issue with dropped frames.

The only thing left to try is to set up a DVB-S card on my Windows 7 system and see if the problems occur there. I'm running all my DVB-S through a Windows Server 2003 box.

I'm fairly confident that it's a fault with the encoders, and it's so subtle that most people don't see it, and also I wonder how many people are actually watching that stream? I never noticed it until I started to process some recordings with VideoReDo, but now that I know it's happening, I see it when watching live too.

I have the problem with Windows 7, Nova-HD S2 card and DVB Viewer, and as I said before, when watching football on ITV (I use a Sky box for ITV and added this channel manually due to the higher quality). Wonder if cable viewers in that region have the same problem?

d'@ve · 11-11-2009, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris.Day

Are there any VideoReDo users on here?

I've noticed that trying to edit recordings from ITV1 West Country (i.e. the only ITV regional variation with decent quality) with VideoReDo, VideoReDo is having to insert video frames throughout the recordings to keep the audio and video in sync.

This is even though there were zero errors logged by the recording application.

I just wondered if anybody else has seen this? I don't think it's a reception issue, due to the zero TS errors, but I guess there could be problems occurring on the PC when writing the file.

Just seen this thread so I did a test recording on Alan Titchmarsh from ITV W Country. Hauppauge WinTV DVBS/S2 tuner card, Windows XP. DVB Viewer, recorded as a PS .mpg file.

It recorded perfectly with no dropped frames but when loaded into virtualdubmod, the audio was out of sync by 400ms, which I could quickly correct. Once adjusted, it remained in sync throughout the recording. I get similar but different amounts of incorrect audio sync on most channels and in all cases I can quickly correct it using virtualdubmod, there's nothing different about ITV W Country. It may be simply because I choose to record as a PS not a TS file and the sync is perfect if I view it in DVBViewer (or anything, for that matter).

Chris.Day · 12-11-2009, 22:50

I always found MPEG-PS rather problematic with Freesat recordings with regards to audio sync (never had this problem with Freeview). Recording in TS format resolves that issue.

These ITV W Country glitches occur in either PS or TS format for me.

Brian, I think I might as well give up trying to find a solution, if you're seeing the issue on standalone boxes too.

Thanks to everyone that's replied.

18-10-2009, 19:01	#1
Chris.Day Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Scunthorpe DN16 3__ Posts: 792	ITV1 West Country - stream errors? Are there any VideoReDo users on here? I've noticed that trying to edit recordings from ITV1 West Country (i.e. the only ITV regional variation with decent quality) with VideoReDo, VideoReDo is having to insert video frames throughout the recordings to keep the audio and video in sync. This is even though there were zero errors logged by the recording application. I just wondered if anybody else has seen this? I don't think it's a reception issue, due to the zero TS errors, but I guess there could be problems occurring on the PC when writing the file.

18-10-2009, 21:00	#3
Chris.Day Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Scunthorpe DN16 3__ Posts: 792	Glad it's not just me then. Are you using DVBViewer?

20-10-2009, 21:30	#6
amstereofan Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,186	Ah I never bother with videoredo now, I use the excellent TMPGenc Xpresss. This is the best prog out there for video editing

01-11-2009, 12:54	#7
Chris.Day Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Scunthorpe DN16 3__ Posts: 792	It looks like More4 has similar problems. Recordings appear to be okay when recorded by DVBViewer (0 TS discontinuities) yet when I run them through VideoReDo I'm getting problems. They're not serious glitches, but it's annoying that I can't see what's causing them. I'm recording on a dedicated server so it could be any one of these: 1) Fault at encoding/multiplexing stage, so "whole transponder TS" CRCs are fine but the actual data within is screwed up 2) Problem with reception - unlikely I think, or DVBViewer would see it and log it. 3) Problem with card/drivers - again unlikely for same reason as (2) 4) Problem with disk writing stage (buffer overflow, disk error) - this is the one that concerns me although I believe that DVBViewer would log if it suffered a buffer overflow and no disk errors appear in the system logs. 5) Problem with network filecopy - but checked md5sums on some bad files that are still on the server and they check out okay I believe that it's (1) but at the same time I find it hard to believe that such a fault would go unfixed for so long. And it's not just one transponder because More4 and ITV1 W Country are on different transponders.

01-11-2009, 15:00	#8
grahamlthompson Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Redditch Worcs Services: Humax9200T Toppy5800 Foxsat HDR Sony KDL-40W4000 TV Denon AVR4306 amp Posts: 3,888	Could this be related to bitrate. ITV 1 West Country is nearly twice the bitrate of the other ITV regions at 6060 bpps. It's also 30% higher than the BBC channels. Try changing encoder quality in tools/options/streamoutput to high.

08-11-2009, 22:45	#9
Chris.Day Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Scunthorpe DN16 3__ Posts: 792	I wonder if this is/was the same problem? http://www.hummy.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6108 I noticed that watching live in DVBViewer gave the same problems. Also tried with a Pinnacle PCTV 4000i card, so it's not a driver issue with dropped frames. The only thing left to try is to set up a DVB-S card on my Windows 7 system and see if the problems occur there. I'm running all my DVB-S through a Windows Server 2003 box. I'm fairly confident that it's a fault with the encoders, and it's so subtle that most people don't see it, and also I wonder how many people are actually watching that stream? I never noticed it until I started to process some recordings with VideoReDo, but now that I know it's happening, I see it when watching live too.

12-11-2009, 22:50	#15
Chris.Day Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Scunthorpe DN16 3__ Posts: 792	I always found MPEG-PS rather problematic with Freesat recordings with regards to audio sync (never had this problem with Freeview). Recording in TS format resolves that issue. These ITV W Country glitches occur in either PS or TS format for me. Brian, I think I might as well give up trying to find a solution, if you're seeing the issue on standalone boxes too. Thanks to everyone that's replied.