Multi-room vs Sling (networked PVR) - Sky+ HD

matt3r · 22-10-2009, 11:01

Some advice please.

We watch TV in two rooms. Currently we've got a Sky+ HD in one and then run it to the other via coax and magic eye thing but it's not great quality and the magic eye responsiveness is really annoying.

We want to upgrade and prefably have HD in both rooms. I can see two options.

Get mutli-room - easy. The problem is that we then end up with two PVRs and I just know everytime I sit down, what I want to watch will be on the other damn box.

Go the sling route with a Slingbox pro, slinglink and sling catcher. I'll then get to use the same PVR all the time but I've been told it can be a little slow (can't imagine why over a simple home network) and it's damn pricey (>£350k).

If I could find any decent networked PVRs to buy i'd probably go that route but I can't seem to find anything.

Any thoughts appreciated.

ProDave · 22-10-2009, 11:38

Why not just install some decent cabling, a long scart, hdmi or component cable to the second tv to get a good quality picture?

Keep the RF link in place as well for the magic eye to control the box.

I run 10 metre long component video and audio cables around the house (plus RF to all rooms)

platelet · 22-10-2009, 11:40

I've got a slingbox (basic one) on my network, but it's wired (both from the slingbox and to the PC) not wireless.

It uses about 6700 kbps so if you're wireless can cope with that okay I don't see an issue. Obviously if you're going to be streaming HD it will need more mind, sling state 1.5Mbps on their website.

Picture quality is better than rf/tvlink route and on par with an SD sky+ even when blow up to 40"-50" it's perfectly watchable.

I have a multi-room contract that I plan to cancel when the minimum time is up and replace with a catcher, mind that's the kitchen tv so it's not that often used. I mainly use the sling with my laptop when away from home.

Haven't got a catcher yet, just use my media centre and the software.

Speed wise there is a delay, basically if you type say 101 on the remote you've got about a second or two before you see the 1 0 1 appear on the screen.

2Bdecided · 22-10-2009, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by platelet

Speed wise there is a delay, basically if you type say 101 on the remote you've got about a second or two before you see the 1 0 1 appear on the screen.

...but that's a very complicated set-up just to watch BBC One anyway!

btw, I don't think you can always feed HDMI with HDCP to two TVs easily. There are splitters (with restrictions on use scenarios), and I can think of ways around it, but it's probably not what you want to do.

You can do it with component.

Sling works really well over a wired home network. I think for "wireless" they prefer you to use homeplug or whatever it's called (which isn't wireless, but isn't a standard PC wired home network either!).

Cheers,
David.

gjkrupa · 22-10-2009, 14:30

One caveat to note is that the SlingBox Pro HD advertised on Sling's web site is not the same as the SlingBox Pro that you can buy over here in the UK. The Pro HD version in the US supports transmission of a picture in HD, the Pro available in the UK supports HD input (via component only with an adapter that plugs into something the same shape as a HDMI socket just to help mislead you) but downscales it to SD quality or lower; 480 lines max I think. Something I didn't realise sadly until I'd got it home and installed.

Now I just use a 20m HDMI cable and I'm much happier.

matt3r · 22-10-2009, 23:09

thanks a lot for the comments. the sling website is confusing. so it sounds like the best option is to have a long (i probably need ~15m) component cable coming out of some sort of component splitter out the back of my Sky+ HD.

is there really no decent network PVR on the market, surely I'm not the only one that suffers this - if only i had an OEM company I could make my million!

LordBrian · 23-10-2009, 08:12

I am not sure the Sling is a perfect solution but it does have some advantages. For me I have a Slingbox and the SlingCatcher for the second room, the picture is ok but button lag is not great.

Where it shines for me is that I can watch on my netbook out in the garden or on my iPhone while at work.

The extra cost really isn't worth it but I do love a gadget....

gjkrupa · 23-10-2009, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt3r

is there really no decent network PVR on the market, surely I'm not the only one that suffers this - if only i had an OEM company I could make my million!

It's quite possible to build your own (if by network PVR you're willing to mean PC with a HD component or DBV-S capture device running Orb).
http://www.orb.com/
http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/prod..._novahds2.html
http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/prod...ata_hdpvr.html
I might have gone this way myself if I didn't have a Samsung HD box with no component outputs.

There are threads elsewhere on DS discussing the relative merits of using DVB-S capture cards with CAMs vs component capture devices.

simon194 · 23-10-2009, 11:13

I use one of these and these.

Works very well and not too expensive.

Dave-H · 23-10-2009, 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon194

I use one of these and these.

Works very well and not too expensive.

Exactly what I use too, over a 25m run.
Works perfectly.
The only downside is you have to run two separate ethernet cables for it.
I would think that distance over a normal HDMI lead would be pushing it, certainly without some sort of repeater.

Magic Torch · 23-10-2009, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon194

I use one of these and these.

Works very well and not too expensive.

Would it be possible to combine the set up you are using with Powerline adaptors? I would like to get a HDMI output signal from my SkyHD box in the lounge to the TV in my bedroom, but the bedroom is in the loft space & I don't wan't to trail CAT5 cables throughout the house...could I plug the CAT5 cable into a Powerline adaptor in the lounge to get the CAT5 output to the bedroom (& convert back to HDMI)? Hope this makes sense!

sodafountain · 23-10-2009, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Torch

Would it be possible to combine the set up you are using with Powerline adaptors? I would like to get a HDMI output signal from my SkyHD box in the lounge to the TV in my bedroom, but the bedroom is in the loft space & I don't wan't to trail CAT5 cables throughout the house...could I plug the CAT5 cable into a Powerline adaptor in the lounge to get the CAT5 output to the bedroom (& convert back to HDMI)? Hope this makes sense!

As stated, you have to run 2 cables, 2 Powerline adapters (1 at each end) would act as only 1 cable, so if it was possible, you would need 2 at each end, depends if they would work like that.

ProDave · 23-10-2009, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Torch

Would it be possible to combine the set up you are using with Powerline adaptors? I would like to get a HDMI output signal from my SkyHD box in the lounge to the TV in my bedroom, but the bedroom is in the loft space & I don't wan't to trail CAT5 cables throughout the house...could I plug the CAT5 cable into a Powerline adaptor in the lounge to get the CAT5 output to the bedroom (& convert back to HDMI)? Hope this makes sense!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sodafountain

As stated, you have to run 2 cables, 2 Powerline adapters (1 at each end) would act as only 1 cable, so if it was possible, you would need 2 at each end, depends if they would work like that.

The powerline adaptors implement an ethernet protocol over the mains.

The HDMI cat5 cable extender, while it uses cat 5 cable and connectors, just uses them as twisted pair cables, and does NOT use an ethernet protocol.

So it won't work with powerline adaptors, it must be 2 hard wired cables. The only advantage over 1 hard wired hdmi cable is the longer length possible.

Magic Torch · 23-10-2009, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDave

The powerline adaptors implement an ethernet protocol over the mains.

The HDMI cat5 cable extender, while it uses cat 5 cable and connectors, just uses them as twisted pair cables, and does NOT use an ethernet protocol.

So it won't work with powerline adaptors, it must be 2 hard wired cables. The only advantage over 1 hard wired hdmi cable is the longer length possible.

Thanks for the info. Looks like I will need to wait until wireless HDMI arrives at a decent price & with a decent range. Think I may be waiting a few years yet!!!

Tony Hoyle · 23-10-2009, 17:39

Wireless HDMI has about the same range as any other video sender.. depends on how many walls it has to traverse and how thick they are.

http://ukhdmi.com/Cablesson_Infinity...I_Set_QQ101729

Reasonably cheap for the tech. Much simpler to run cable though.

matt3r · 23-10-2009, 19:54

I like the look of the 1-to-2 HDMI splitter but do i need the extender? I'm only running 15m and the splitter says if it's powered can extend beyond 10m.

Is the limitation the cost of a decent 15m HDMI cable vs. 2 RJ45s?

By the way, this one http://ukhdmi.com/HDMI_over_Ethernet...ender_QQ101813 seems to do it with one RJ45 (though you feel it in the price).

Love the look of the wireless solution http://ukhdmi.com/Cablesson_Infinity...I_Set_QQ101729 but £400 may be taking the p**s.

Ranch · 24-10-2009, 20:19

I have the sling system but use it how it is intended, ie the catcher is at my flat in Oxford to connect to my HD box in Manchester, works well.

Much to expensive kit to use in the same location IMO.

I have an excellant picture in my bedroom from my HD box via coax and the magic eye response is not different to the normal remote when in front of the box.

I would suggest you have a wiring issue? might be worth checking before you spend money?

archie2000 · 25-10-2009, 20:28

If you want to improve the quality of the picture on your second tv, try changing the UHF output on your Sky box from the default setting (36 I think) and then retune your second tv to receive it. I have always done this on my Sky boxes and it always improves the quality of the picture reception

matt3r · 10-11-2009, 21:29

I've just found this unit online - http://www.hdcable.co.uk/hdmi-over-ip-transmitter.html - looks pretty neat and enables HDMI transmission over an IP network, i.e. could use the powerline adapters, which would negate the laying of cable (yawn).

has anyone used or heard whether it's any good?

matt3r · 10-11-2009, 21:32

oh, forgot to mention - pricey though!!

vale46 · 14-11-2009, 17:56

I've just set up an HD multiroom using the splitter and CAT5 extender which I got off Ebay for about £45 delivered from China! Works a treat, HD in the bedroom for a fraction of the cost of Multiroom. Still using the Magiceye for control. I ran 2 flat CAT5 cables under the carpet no problems. Total run is 15m. Defo the cheapest way to do it, and delivers full 1080i on your second TV.

22-10-2009, 11:01	#1
matt3r Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 20	Multi-room vs Sling (networked PVR) Some advice please. We watch TV in two rooms. Currently we've got a Sky+ HD in one and then run it to the other via coax and magic eye thing but it's not great quality and the magic eye responsiveness is really annoying. We want to upgrade and prefably have HD in both rooms. I can see two options. Get mutli-room - easy. The problem is that we then end up with two PVRs and I just know everytime I sit down, what I want to watch will be on the other damn box. Go the sling route with a Slingbox pro, slinglink and sling catcher. I'll then get to use the same PVR all the time but I've been told it can be a little slow (can't imagine why over a simple home network) and it's damn pricey (>£350k). If I could find any decent networked PVRs to buy i'd probably go that route but I can't seem to find anything. Any thoughts appreciated.

22-10-2009, 11:38	#2
ProDave Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northern Scottish Highlands Services: Freesat From Sky+ HD, Astra 1 / Hotbird FTA, Freeview, Freeview PVR, ADSL Posts: 7,229	Why not just install some decent cabling, a long scart, hdmi or component cable to the second tv to get a good quality picture? Keep the RF link in place as well for the magic eye to control the box. I run 10 metre long component video and audio cables around the house (plus RF to all rooms)

22-10-2009, 11:40	#3
platelet Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cheltenham Posts: 2,591	I've got a slingbox (basic one) on my network, but it's wired (both from the slingbox and to the PC) not wireless. It uses about 6700 kbps so if you're wireless can cope with that okay I don't see an issue. Obviously if you're going to be streaming HD it will need more mind, sling state 1.5Mbps on their website. Picture quality is better than rf/tvlink route and on par with an SD sky+ even when blow up to 40"-50" it's perfectly watchable. I have a multi-room contract that I plan to cancel when the minimum time is up and replace with a catcher, mind that's the kitchen tv so it's not that often used. I mainly use the sling with my laptop when away from home. Haven't got a catcher yet, just use my media centre and the software. Speed wise there is a delay, basically if you type say 101 on the remote you've got about a second or two before you see the 1 0 1 appear on the screen.

22-10-2009, 14:30	#5
gjkrupa Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Coventry Services: Sky+HD (Samsung 004), VM TV: M, VM 50Mb BB Posts: 23	One caveat to note is that the SlingBox Pro HD advertised on Sling's web site is not the same as the SlingBox Pro that you can buy over here in the UK. The Pro HD version in the US supports transmission of a picture in HD, the Pro available in the UK supports HD input (via component only with an adapter that plugs into something the same shape as a HDMI socket just to help mislead you) but downscales it to SD quality or lower; 480 lines max I think. Something I didn't realise sadly until I'd got it home and installed. Now I just use a 20m HDMI cable and I'm much happier.

22-10-2009, 23:09	#6
matt3r Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 20	thanks a lot for the comments. the sling website is confusing. so it sounds like the best option is to have a long (i probably need ~15m) component cable coming out of some sort of component splitter out the back of my Sky+ HD. is there really no decent network PVR on the market, surely I'm not the only one that suffers this - if only i had an OEM company I could make my million!

23-10-2009, 08:12	#7
LordBrian Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 82	I am not sure the Sling is a perfect solution but it does have some advantages. For me I have a Slingbox and the SlingCatcher for the second room, the picture is ok but button lag is not great. Where it shines for me is that I can watch on my netbook out in the garden or on my iPhone while at work. The extra cost really isn't worth it but I do love a gadget....

23-10-2009, 11:13	#9
simon194 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: East Sussex Coast, UK Services: Sky HD 640, Pipex-Tiscali-Talk Talk 16meg Posts: 272	I use one of these and these. Works very well and not too expensive.

23-10-2009, 17:39	#15
Tony Hoyle Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Manchester, UK Services: SkyHD, Tivo, 46" Panasonic G10, HD-A1 + 90" screen, PCs, Wife, Birds, Fish Posts: 1,476	Wireless HDMI has about the same range as any other video sender.. depends on how many walls it has to traverse and how thick they are. http://ukhdmi.com/Cablesson_Infinity...I_Set_QQ101729 Reasonably cheap for the tech. Much simpler to run cable though.

23-10-2009, 19:54	#16
matt3r Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 20	I like the look of the 1-to-2 HDMI splitter but do i need the extender? I'm only running 15m and the splitter says if it's powered can extend beyond 10m. Is the limitation the cost of a decent 15m HDMI cable vs. 2 RJ45s? By the way, this one http://ukhdmi.com/HDMI_over_Ethernet...ender_QQ101813 seems to do it with one RJ45 (though you feel it in the price). Love the look of the wireless solution http://ukhdmi.com/Cablesson_Infinity...I_Set_QQ101729 but £400 may be taking the p**s.

24-10-2009, 20:19	#17
Ranch Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: UK Posts: 52	I have the sling system but use it how it is intended, ie the catcher is at my flat in Oxford to connect to my HD box in Manchester, works well. Much to expensive kit to use in the same location IMO. I have an excellant picture in my bedroom from my HD box via coax and the magic eye response is not different to the normal remote when in front of the box. I would suggest you have a wiring issue? might be worth checking before you spend money?

25-10-2009, 20:28	#18
archie2000 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wirral Services: Sky+HD Multi room(Sky+) Philips 37PF5520D, Denon DVD 1940, Denon AVR-1705 Posts: 92	If you want to improve the quality of the picture on your second tv, try changing the UHF output on your Sky box from the default setting (36 I think) and then retune your second tv to receive it. I have always done this on my Sky boxes and it always improves the quality of the picture reception

10-11-2009, 21:29	#19
matt3r Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 20	I've just found this unit online - http://www.hdcable.co.uk/hdmi-over-ip-transmitter.html - looks pretty neat and enables HDMI transmission over an IP network, i.e. could use the powerline adapters, which would negate the laying of cable (yawn). has anyone used or heard whether it's any good?

10-11-2009, 21:32	#20
matt3r Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 20	oh, forgot to mention - pricey though!!

14-11-2009, 17:56	#21
vale46 Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Paisley Services: Vrigin Digital TV + 2Mb Broadband Posts: 30	I've just set up an HD multiroom using the splitter and CAT5 extender which I got off Ebay for about £45 delivered from China! Works a treat, HD in the bedroom for a fraction of the cost of Multiroom. Still using the Magiceye for control. I ran 2 flat CAT5 cables under the carpet no problems. Total run is 15m. Defo the cheapest way to do it, and delivers full 1080i on your second TV.