[gbswales]

The big downer with Sky has always been the "pack" pricing which produces hundreds of less than mediocre channels. There are about 2 or 3 channels that I would pay extra for if they were available as add ons for say £1 - £2 a month - but paying £22 a month (ever increasing) to get say Dave and History channel is just not worthwhile and that is why I am switching - by cancelling Sky I will recover the cost of the box in less than a year.

I sincerly hope that uptake increases through the digital switchover more companies like Dave will see that they cannot afford not to be on there

The box has the potential to receive cards so why doesnt someone start producing them - I am sure we all have our own special mix we would pay for

[Humid]

Long Slippery slope.... Thin end of the wedge etc. so NEVER.

[chancooluk]

Originally Posted by gbswales

The big downer with Sky has always been the "pack" pricing which produces hundreds of less than mediocre channels. There are about 2 or 3 channels that I would pay extra for if they were available as add ons for say £1 - £2 a month - but paying £22 a month (ever increasing) to get say Dave and History channel is just not worthwhile and that is why I am switching - by cancelling Sky I will recover the cost of the box in less than a year.

I sincerly hope that uptake increases through the digital switchover more companies like Dave will see that they cannot afford not to be on there

The box has the potential to receive cards so why doesnt someone start producing them - I am sure we all have our own special mix we would pay for

Which box are you talking about? A sky box?

Viewing cards are not part of the freesat (not freesat-from-sky) specification...

[Mike01]

GBS, Glad your getting your HDR tommorow, mate
I used to have Sky then To VM (which I only
use their fibre optic broadband and phone currently)

You'll be chuffed to bits with your "new toy" mate
when it arrives. There's far too much negativety
surrounding Freesat at the moment. Enjoy

[Analoguesat]

Originally Posted by gbswales

The big downer with Sky has always been the "pack" pricing which produces hundreds of less than mediocre channels. There are about 2 or 3 channels that I would pay extra for if they were available as add ons for say £1 - £2 a month - but paying £22 a month (ever increasing) to get say Dave and History channel is just not worthwhile

Without the Sky pack pricing 70 or 80% of the pay channels would not exist - most of them are not viable without the subscription income..

[White-Knight]

Originally Posted by Humid

Long Slippery slope.... Thin end of the wedge etc. so NEVER.

Agreed.

Do you also believe gbs that Sky would offer add ons cheaper than on their own subscription service?

They'd be cutting their own throat if people could cherry pick their own choices and leave to a cheaper non subscription service on Freesat. The whole point of Sky's packages is they force you to accept channels you don't necessarily want and if you have a varied viewing interest then you have to buy more than 1 pack to get the variety.

If you could simply top them up cheaply on Freesat then Sky would find itself with no subscribers overnight.

The best thing for Freesat is to develop parallel FTA channels so it can offer similar programming on a free basis or do some exchange deals on material eg BBC HD in exchange for Discovery HD, ITV HD in exchange for Extreme etc. That way both parties would benefit. (BTW I know BBC HD and ITV HD are available on Sky currently).

[Martin_S]

Disagree. Freesat is purely intended for FTA TV. If you want subscription TV stick with Sky. If you want an alternative satellite pay service we will only end up with a BSB situation again and Sky will buy it out.

[happyjackseven]

Hi,
I think Freesat missed a trick from the beginning.
the boxes should have included a cam slot and the programmes should have been encoded.

Every one that has paid the licence fee should if they request one be given one. The signal should have stayed on Astra 2a enabling thousands of ex-pats living in Spain Portugal and elsewhere to receive the signal by purchasing a card.

The yearly revenue would have been enormous and there should be no problem with the licence rights as Sky already do this.

What do you think?

Jack

[Andy2]

No no no! One of the attractions of Freesat is that there aren't great swathes of scrambed channels, top-up TV, 'contact your dealer' or 'phone this number to upgrade your package' channels.
It's simple and clean, and should remain so.

[derek500]

Originally Posted by happyjackseven

What do you think?

In principle a good idea, but totally unworkable. Everyone would need a separate card for each STB. Expats would just ask family (or other sources) in the UK to get them a card.

All UK boxes would need to be monitored like Sky's Multiroom service, with phone lines connected to each box.

[BKM]

Originally Posted by happyjackseven

I think Freesat missed a trick from the beginning.
the boxes should have included a cam slot and the programmes should have been encoded.

All very sensible - done in most other countries - and would have avoided the "Astra 2D problem"!

However the BBC do not want mandated decryption ability in either Freesat or Freeview receivers - as they are extrememly scared that, with that ability, some future government would force them to go from licence fee to subscription funding. Cynics would say this is one of the primary motivations behind Freesat!

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by Martin_S

Disagree. Freesat is purely intended for FTA TV. If you want subscription TV stick with Sky. If you want an alternative satellite pay service we will only end up with a BSB situation again and Sky will buy it out.

Correct, that's why it is called Freesat. And that's why it is not really in competition with Sky.

[Wouter]

Originally Posted by Martin_S

Disagree. Freesat is purely intended for FTA TV. If you want subscription TV stick with Sky. If you want an alternative satellite pay service we will only end up with a BSB situation again and Sky will buy it out.

Disagree. The way I see it, freesat is not a true FTA platform at all. It's just a poor excuse of an EPG that displays the channels that pay their massive fees. Yes, you could manually tune in other channels (marginally easier than on a $ky* box), but they really should have done better if only to future proof the platform and make launching channels easier.

They are now looking into some things that I know will upset people, but will give them a greater control, but will it be too late?


* apologies, but the fact that it annoys people tickles me, childish I know, and I'll stop now.

[Rapture TV]

Originally Posted by gbswales

The big downer with Sky has always been the "pack" pricing which produces hundreds of less than mediocre channels. There are about 2 or 3 channels that I would pay extra for if they were available as add ons for say £1 - £2 a month - but paying £22 a month (ever increasing) to get say Dave and History channel is just not worthwhile and that is why I am switching - by cancelling Sky I will recover the cost of the box in less than a year.

I sincerly hope that uptake increases through the digital switchover more companies like Dave will see that they cannot afford not to be on there

The box has the potential to receive cards so why doesnt someone start producing them - I am sure we all have our own special mix we would pay for

Such a service is already in the pipeline. It will be called REAL Digital and the first set top boxes from Fortec Star should appear around Christmas.

All free to air channels will be listed on the EPG and a viewing card is required to receive the EPG. The viewing card will be free but a activation fee of £20 is required. The cards will run for 3 years from activation. Red button will also be supported.

Pay TV channels will also be offered next year using the same card. However unlike Sky there will be an option to Pay As You Go or a subscription. Channels will be able to either be offered as part of a package or as stand alone channels. Basically the best of all worlds.

Some Free To Air channels may use the Pay TV service for one off special events.

A truely open and flexible service. A HD box will sell for around £125 in the new year. A PVR Twin tuner is also expected but there is no prices yet.

[Andrue]

Originally Posted by Humid

Long Slippery slope.... Thin end of the wedge etc. so NEVER.

Agreed. I also don't think the 'charge per channel' model is viable. I think there's a symbiotic relationship at work.

The extra 'crappy channels' help flesh out the deal and might secure a sale that the channel on its own couldn't get.

Looking at Sky's documentary package:Take out the chaff and you're down to four or five decent channels. I would probably not bother looking at that line up. The chaff treble that number though and suddenly it seems a more reasonable deal.

[Andrue]

Originally Posted by happyjackseven

Hi,
I think Freesat missed a trick from the beginning.
the boxes should have included a cam slot and the programmes should have been encoded.

Too expensive I expect. The only point of doing that would be to let them broadcast from Eurobird. That would be good for Freesat but unfortunately the encryption system has to be licensed.

In any case I think we're good as we are.

Freesat/view for those too sensible to pay for TV, Sky/VM for the rest of us.

We've already seen the impact on FTA of having large numbers of (mostly crap) channels. It dilutes the revenue damages the overall product. Pay TV is surviving quite nicely at the moment but if you introduce competition even that would start to look a bit sickly.

[Miriyo]

I'm neither on the side of Sky nor Freesat. I was a Sky customer until they found out I was abroad so I bought a Freesat HDR. If you want a decent EPG and your usual standard TV channels I can't fault Freesat really. I found the Sky Digibox infuriatingly restrictive at times but it did its job.

I do miss having Sky One and National Geographic from time to time but that's just the way it goes.

[gbswales]

Originally Posted by Analoguesat

Without the Sky pack pricing 70 or 80% of the pay channels would not exist - most of them are not viable without the subscription income..

But do they need to exist?

[gbswales]

Originally Posted by Rapture TV

Such a service is already in the pipeline. It will be called REAL Digital and the first set top boxes from Fortec Star should appear around Christmas.

All free to air channels will be listed on the EPG and a viewing card is required to receive the EPG. The viewing card will be free but a activation fee of £20 is required. The cards will run for 3 years from activation. Red button will also be supported.

Pay TV channels will also be offered next year using the same card. However unlike Sky there will be an option to Pay As You Go or a subscription. Channels will be able to either be offered as part of a package or as stand alone channels. Basically the best of all worlds.

Some Free To Air channels may use the Pay TV service for one off special events.

A truely open and flexible service. A HD box will sell for around £125 in the new year. A PVR Twin tuner is also expected but there is no prices yet.

Arggh - does this mean that FreeSat box will be redundant? Surely they way foreward should be to have one box, one dish and multiple providers according to the card you put in?
I am just concerned that freesat might end up as an HD version of terrestrial TV - I had assumed that the chanel line up would grow year on year funded by advertising on each channel - which means the one with low audiences would not survive

From what people are saying this could end up with several different providers none able to offer exactly what the end user wants and with expensive hardware costs to move between them

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by gbswales

From what people are saying this could end up with several different providers none able to offer exactly what the end user wants and with expensive hardware costs to move between them

Or you simply do what people have always done in similar circumstances - accept that nothing is ideal in the world, and go for a compromise that suits you best in terms of boxes, costs and channels.

[goggled]

Originally Posted by gbswales

Arggh - does this mean that FreeSat box will be redundant? ....

As to Originally Posted by Rapture TV View Post
Such a service is already in the pipeline. It will be called REAL Digital and the first set top boxes from Fortec Star should appear around Christmas.
some would suggest you look carefully at Rapture TV's posting history, and learn long period diving without a diving bell or snorkel.

[White-Knight]

Originally Posted by Rapture TV

Such a service is already in the pipeline. It will be called REAL Digital and the first set top boxes from Fortec Star should appear around Christmas.

All free to air channels will be listed on the EPG and a viewing card is required to receive the EPG. The viewing card will be free but a activation fee of £20 is required. The cards will run for 3 years from activation. Red button will also be supported.

Pay TV channels will also be offered next year using the same card. However unlike Sky there will be an option to Pay As You Go or a subscription. Channels will be able to either be offered as part of a package or as stand alone channels. Basically the best of all worlds.

Some Free To Air channels may use the Pay TV service for one off special events.

A truely open and flexible service. A HD box will sell for around £125 in the new year. A PVR Twin tuner is also expected but there is no prices yet.

Reading what you've put though this is a Sky Pay as You Go Service, not a top up service for BBC / ITV Freesat. I also can't see it being particularly cheap for packages otherwise Sky will lose a lot of monthly subscribers as I pointed out above. Whose gong to pay monthly if you can cherry pick your service for less on PAYG. Anyway, neither here or there to me as won't pay for my tv in principle.

[Rapture TV]

Originally Posted by goggled

As to Originally Posted by Rapture TV View Post
Such a service is already in the pipeline. It will be called REAL Digital and the first set top boxes from Fortec Star should appear around Christmas.
some would suggest you look carefully at Rapture TV's posting history, and learn long period diving without a diving bell or snorkel.

Perhaps the lessons learned have led to a positive development like REAL Digital.

Whats clear is that there is a demand for a better offering than freesat on the same single satellite dish but without all the expensive Sky TV packages.

If anyone knows how the Sky platform works its going to be people that have experience of being on it!

To answer your question that this is just a Sky PAYG its is not. There is no need to take Pay TV services its up to 400 free digital channels and then you can add on to that in a flexible way. Thats not what Sky offer. Then make you pay for a large number of channels before you can get the few that you might be looking for.

[gbswales]

Originally Posted by Rapture TV

Perhaps the lessons ........
To answer your question that this is just a Sky PAYG its is not. There is no need to take Pay TV services its up to 400 free digital channels and then you can add on to that in a flexible way. Thats not what Sky offer. Then make you pay for a large number of channels before you can get the few that you might be looking for.

Real Digital seems to be in a "coming soon phase" with no indication of pricing - ok it will have the free channels that freesat either has or will probably get - but mention of small annual subscription as the alternative to pay as you go is not really helpful - what is the definition of small? Right now faced with a dilemma because I am dropping sky to fund DVD rental and part of the cost of a new TV 90% of my viewing is on mainstream channels which are free anyway. It looks like freeview will never reach my area as we are on a repeater station and even terrestrial was pretty dire. I could go freesat with sky but still lose the premium channels and, unless I pay them £10 a month I cant really use the PVR sky plus box features and of course cant get any HD without a subscription. Then there is the added risk that Real is a private company which could go under in the future......and I have just a 7 day return period to decide whether to keep my new freesat box or wait for Real to at least come clean with prices - if its the equivilent of £10 a month or more I wouldnt be interested - but for £60 a year I might be tempted.........with retirement looming I cant afford to keep making costly mistakes with technology that I will need to last me a few years

[gbswales]

BBC and ITV would collaborate with a Dave style channel on fresat offering the best of their offerings repeated that would solve my problem - I dont care about films and hate sport -so would not need thoses and if they couls add a few things like history and geographic - I am sure the BBC have huge libraries of back catalogue they could run at minimal cost - isnt that the kind of educational/cultural programmes that the BBC are supposed to make!