[seosamh]

There's been a lot of talk ESPN's future particularly when their Premiership contract runs out. Personally Bundesliga or Serie A do not remotely appeal to me let alone pretty much all the rest of their programming.

I think the answer is straightforward - to concentrate on American sports. I know you can say that they already do so but I think if they could secure all the live rights, and highlights, magazine shows etc - blanket coverage, to the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, and college football and basketball as well as maybe Nascar it would give them a real identity and lots more subscribers - me for one. Sky seem to be letting the NFL rot away (no Gameday again today) and I think that there would be a market for good, professional coverage of all the major US sports.

[wolvesdavid]

Well yes there is a niche market for any sport.

They will want to concentrate on football and more specifically English Premier League football to get mass subs. I guess they will try for 3 packages from the 2013-2014 football season, plus maybe champions league.

[chrisfinch]

Originally Posted by seosamh

There's been a lot of talk ESPN's future particularly when their Premiership contract runs out. Personally Bundesliga or Serie A do not remotely appeal to me let alone pretty much all the rest of their programming.

I think the answer is straightforward - to concentrate on American sports. I know you can say that they already do so but I think if they could secure all the live rights, and highlights, magazine shows etc - blanket coverage, to the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, and college football and basketball as well as maybe Nascar it would give them a real identity and lots more subscribers - me for one. Sky seem to be letting the NFL rot away (no Gameday again today) and I think that there would be a market for good, professional coverage of all the major US sports.

It still makes me laugh that people think sky are to blame for the lack of NFL Gameday.

As for ESPN, I don't think they are doing much wrong. Forgetting ESPN America, which is pretty much a separate entity, the main channel has naff all on during the week until midnight.

However, the schedules seem pretty full at the weekend and everything they are doing is cost effective-the opposite of setanta. No overlong build-ups for big games, no pointless studio coverage for stuff when its not needed, taking the world feed comms were neccesary AND they've got all their rights dirt cheap.

In a financial sense, can't fault ESPN UK. But for me, there is very little that would make me want to subscribe-sure theres occasional NBA and NHL that I enjoy but thats about it. The bigger Football matches are on Sky and while enjoy a dip in to the european leagues its not enough for me to warrant a subscription. Plus the cost is too high, particularly when compared to setanta.

The problem with focusing on american sports is that I don't really think there is that much of a market for it here in the UK. Particularly with the NFL, people are deluding themselves how big the game is in this country-most notably alastair Kirkwood. Read the press releases, and they'll tell you the game is on the grow over here but I don't think it particularly is. The same niche crowd go to wembley every year (I'm one of them), and TV figures haven't noticably risen or decreased. When people on the NFLUK forums complain about no MNF over here, it makes me think they should be grateful for what they get. Its nothing more than a minority sport in this country.

I'm not denying that NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB and Nascar all have their audiences but combined together would it produce enough subscribers for ESPN? It's hard to tell, NASN seemed to survive for a while.

Plus, a premium US sports channel would cost a premium price, realistically between £15 -£20 a month. Now I'm a fan of US sports but I would never pay that amount for it, and I'm sure there would be a lot of people in a similar position.

But honestly, there has been nothing to suggest that ESPN's future in this country lies in anything other than Football and I think things will stay that way.

There is more money to be made in catering for the Football fans than the US sports fans.

[seosamh]

It makes me laugh when people say it's a niche sport - then why broadcast any American sport at all? Is Nascar a popular sport?Is ESPN America just wasting their time? They seem to doing alright with sports nowhere near as popular as NFL. People are always saying here that there is no market for American sports in the UK but why is it that the rest of Europe seems to be able to get the coverage that I'm talking about. Monday Night Football has been thrilling this season (although probably not tonight!) and no coverage here. Are poker and carp angling major sports? There are a ton of rubbish sports on Sky - netball anyone? How much did it cost Sky to broadcast that crap live?

By the way if Gameday's programming is such a problem for Sky and beyond their control, how about putting their own highlight show together?

[grahamzxy]

ESPN can bankroll channels here for a long time, they have always wanted a foothold in the UK and Europe, remember they are backed by billion $$ disney corp.

I am surprised viewing figures arent higher especially Premier league matches mind you maybe there is a finite number of viewers who want live football and fans are becoming more choosy about which teams they will bother watching.

Roll on the NBA and games shown as live should do decent figures, I am a big espn fan especially as virgin tagged it on free for xl package

[chrisfinch]

Originally Posted by seosamh

It makes me laugh when people say it's a niche sport - then why broadcast any American sport at all? Is Nascar a popular sport?Is ESPN America just wasting their time? They seem to doing alright with sports nowhere near as popular as NFL. People are always saying here that there is no market for American sports in the UK but why is it that the rest of Europe seems to be able to get the coverage that I'm talking about. Monday Night Football has been thrilling this season (although probably not tonight!) and no coverage here. Are poker and carp angling major sports? There are a ton of rubbish sports on Sky - netball anyone? How much did it cost Sky to broadcast that crap live?

By the way if Gameday's programming is such a problem for Sky and beyond their control, how about putting their own highlight show together?

You didn't really read what I put did you. Of course there is a market for US sports over here, I was just saying that the market isn't big enough to warrant ESPN dropping Premier League and european Football to cover it.

Most of the "rubbish sports" that sky show cost very little, if at all to show. The governing bodies, or rights holders tend to "give them away" to sky to raise awareness of their product and encourage sponsors and advertisers. In return, it also fills up sky's schedules.

At the end of the day, there is still very much an "island mentality" on these shores that the general public and broadcasters follow. Sure, I'd like more US sports, particularly Ice Hockey and Basketball to be shown but I know there isn't that much of a market for it on these shores, particularly compared to mainland Europe where Basketball and Hockey are massive in certain countries.

Niche sports will never produce the money or subscribers that Football, Cricket and Rugby would. Most honest american sports fans would agree (that aren't deluding themselves) that their chosen sport is of a minority in this country.

And by the way, there is nothing to stop sky putting together their own highlights programme, and really they ought to have done so.

[DejaVoodoo]

ESPN America already supplies a small but hardcore US sports fanbase with good coverage. That coverage is going to improve if the changes to the European version of ESPNA come to the UK version. There really isn't a need to go back to solely covering US Sports.

As it relates to ESPN UK, they have been very smart with picking up rights on the cheap and keeping costs down. ESPN don't have to be No.1 from the off. Start small and build.

Everyone knows that the EPL brings in the most subscribers to ESPN. When that goes from 46 games to 23 next season, there will be a drop off no doubt. However if they can offer a selection of other rights and other sports, they can become a nice alternative and attract a sports viewer who isn't football driven. Things like Guinness Premiership Rugby, Boxing, Golf, IPL Cricket etc. are available and some at a reasonable price. Alot of this content, Sky have either no interest in, offer some of that sport already or don't have the schedule space to show it, which gives ESPN leverage in negotiations. Eurosport have a tight budget and are fairly conservative with their premium sport rights.

On a side note, wasn't the SPL deal setup in a way that Sky got all the Old Firm games as well as Edinburgh Derbies? It's just that ESPN are showing the 1st Edinburgh Derby of the season on the 7th November. Sky's working relationship with ESPN paying off??

[chrisfinch]

Originally Posted by DejaVoodoo

ESPN America already supplies a small but hardcore US sports fanbase with good coverage. That coverage is going to improve if the changes to the European version of ESPNA come to the UK version. There really isn't a need to go back to solely covering US Sports.

As it relates to ESPN UK, they have been very smart with picking up rights on the cheap and keeping costs down. ESPN don't have to be No.1 from the off. Start small and build.

Everyone knows that the EPL brings in the most subscribers to ESPN. When that goes from 46 games to 23 next season, there will be a drop off no doubt. However if they can offer a selection of other rights and other sports, they can become a nice alternative and attract a sports viewer who isn't football driven. Things like Guinness Premiership Rugby, Boxing, Golf, IPL Cricket etc. are available and some at a reasonable price. Alot of this content, Sky have either no interest in, offer some of that sport already or don't have the schedule space to show it, which gives ESPN leverage in negotiations. Eurosport have a tight budget and are fairly conservative with their premium sport rights.

On a side note, wasn't the SPL deal setup in a way that Sky got all the Old Firm games as well as Edinburgh Derbies? It's just that ESPN are showing the 1st Edinburgh Derby of the season on the 7th November. Sky's working relationship with ESPN paying off??

Nah, sky got the old firm derbies, and I think ESPN got 3 Edinburgh derbies to Sky's 1 (providing both make the top or bottom 6 at the end of the year).

What you've said is pretty much spot on. ESPN America is there and does a good job at what it does. But its the premier league that bring the majority of the subscribers to ESPN.

To drop all their Football to just show american sports is completely unrealistic and to be frank, almost suicidal by them.

What people fail to realise, and thats what seomsah doesn't seem to realise is that what you want isn't neccesarily what the majority of people want.

What you've literally said seomsah is that you don't like Football, but like american sports-so why doesn't ESPN only show that.

[DejaVoodoo]

Originally Posted by chrisfinch

Nah, sky got the old firm derbies, and I think ESPN got 3 Edinburgh derbies to Sky's 1 (providing both make the top or bottom 6 at the end of the year).

Wasn't 100% sure of the Sky/ESPN's SPL deal structure.

It will be interesting to see at the end of the season what rights ESPN drop, retain and pick up.

What do you think?

# English Premier League x 23 games
# Scottish Premier League x 30 games
# NBA
# Europa League
# MLS (2009 only)
# German Bundesliga
# Portuguese Liga
# The Eredivisie
# Russian Premier League
# Italian Serie A
# Coppa Italia
# Italian Super Cup
# UFC
# French Rugby Championship
# Australian Football League
# Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters
# FIBA European Basketball Championships
# International Rugby
# NRL
# Friday Night Fight Boxing

[packerbully]

ESPN deliver a very high quality product - and in such a short time.

Whilst they will lose subscribers next year, it must not be forgotten that their costs will drop greatly too. They have kept their costs down and came in knowing that they would only have 23 games for the next 3 years - so there is a long future for ESPN/

ESPN America will be re-hashed shortly to bring it into line with ESPN... then we have SPN's new Sportscenter show some time in the next few months... plus other developments I very much expect.

[DejaVoodoo]

Between the Lines and Talk of the Terrace.

Early Thoughts? Do they have a future in their current formats?

[chrisfinch]

Originally Posted by DejaVoodoo

Wasn't 100% sure of the Sky/ESPN's SPL deal structure.

It will be interesting to see at the end of the season what rights ESPN drop, retain and pick up.

What do you think?

# English Premier League x 23 games
# Scottish Premier League x 30 games
# NBA
# Europa League
# MLS (2009 only)
# German Bundesliga
# Portuguese Liga
# The Eredivisie
# Russian Premier League
# Italian Serie A
# Coppa Italia
# Italian Super Cup
# UFC
# French Rugby Championship
# Australian Football League
# Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters
# FIBA European Basketball Championships
# International Rugby
# NRL
# Friday Night Fight Boxing

ESPN's problem is they have nothing on during the week, but the weekend scedule, particularly on a sunday is crammed.

I think the DTM will go, they've only shown 2 races live, and what was during the international breaks so they had nothing to show then.

The NRL may go to sky, I'd hope so but not sure if its that likely. They were unlucky with EuroBasket. At the last minute BBC decided to show the British games, which was all ESPN showed till the semi finals. Maybe that might put them off that.

The majority of the european football I can see them keeping. Friday Night Fights is easy as its dirt cheap with them just importing it directly from ESPN in the states.

But they need sport that happens during the week. IPL Cricket is a maybe, but with Eurosport showing the T20 Champions League, perhaps thats a hint as to where that will go.

Test cricket is a possibility-perhaps if they set their sights on Pakistani and Sri Lankan games they could get some subscrivers from those communities living in the UK. But those games will take place in the morning, leaving nothing on weekday evenings.

Perhaps they could get the German Cup, but as with the Coppa Italia that will only cover very occasional weeknights.

I'm struggling to think of stuff to fill on weeknights in prime time-any ideas dejavoodoo?

[packerbully]

Originally Posted by chrisfinch

ESPN's problem is they have nothing on during the week, but the weekend scedule, particularly on a sunday is crammed.

Well they have LIVE football this Wednesday Thursday and Friday
plus next week Thursday (2 games) and Friday.

They will have more contracts signed - not bad considering they have only been running 3 or so months.

[ToneXIR]

Originally Posted by chrisfinch

I think the DTM will go, they've only shown 2 races live, and what was during the international breaks so they had nothing to show then.

I disagree there. I thought the DTM deal was actually for two years, I'll see if I can check that, but if it wasn't for Setanta making a real hash of things, and if ESPN came in earlier we might have had more, especially during the summer. I understand that the leather sphere is more important than cars in the eyes of most Sports buyers (although never to me personally), but I'm more than happy to have a 2 hour delay like this weekend than none at all (yeah- cheers Setanta, best DTM track of the year at Norrisring produces the best race of the year, a real nail biter with a Brit winner and you lot bloody folded that day and it was never ever seen in the UK- arses.) and if there's less footie on the cards for next year there could well be more DTM. I thought they did a great job for Brands Hatch, a full 3 hour programme with a special live half hour produced by ESPN themselves apart from the usual 2 and a half from the Wige World Feed.

EDIT: Confirmed. The DTM deal with ESPN is 'multi year' the same terms as AFL, UFC and the Orange French Rugby apparently.

[chrisfinch]

Originally Posted by packerbully

Well they have LIVE football this Wednesday Thursday and Friday
plus next week Thursday (2 games) and Friday.

They will have more contracts signed - not bad considering they have only been running 3 or so months.

Yeah but these midweek games are only occasional. The Europa League has helped to fill some of the gap, but I'm pretty sure where there was a week earlier this season where they went from sunday evening to friday evening only showing Baseball live-and something's up there. Although it has got better, their lack of live sports in the week is a tad worrying

Originally Posted by ToneXIR

I disagree there. I thought the DTM deal was actually for two years, I'll see if I can check that, but if it wasn't for Setanta making a real hash of things, and if ESPN came in earlier we might have had more, especially during the summer. I understand that the leather sphere is more important than cars in the eyes of most Sports buyers (although never to me personally), but I'm more than happy to have a 2 hour delay like this weekend than none at all (yeah- cheers Setanta, best DTM track of the year at Norrisring produces the best race of the year, a real nail biter with a Brit winner and you lot bloody folded that day and it was never ever seen in the UK- arses.) and if there's less footie on the cards for next year there could well be more DTM. I thought they did a great job for Brands Hatch, a full 3 hour programme with a special live half hour produced by ESPN themselves apart from the usual 2 and a half from the Wige World Feed.

EDIT: Confirmed. The DTM deal with ESPN is 'multi year' the same terms as AFL, UFC and the Orange French Rugby apparently.

Maybe its because I'm used to the DTM on Motors TV where it was always pretty good-even despite Carlton and Cole Heck, they even used to interrupt their all day coverage of the BTCC to show it. It just seems a bit half-arsed on ESPN really, but then the last year or so of the DTM has seemed a bit dull to me. At least its better than that garbage WTCC. I've never seen a championship lose quality so much so quickly as the WTCC. Running races on street circuits that are far too narrow meaning its just crashes, safety cars, team orders and no overtaking.

[yvonne]

Originally Posted by chrisfinch

Yeah but these midweek games are only occasional. The Europa League has helped to fill some of the gap, but I'm pretty sure where there was a week earlier this season where they went from sunday evening to friday evening only showing Baseball live-and something's up there. Although it has got better, their lack of live sports in the week is a tad worrying

But they have only been operating 3 1/2 months ... give them time..they have done a fantastic job getting to where they are now.

[DejaVoodoo]

Originally Posted by chrisfinch

ESPN's problem is they have nothing on during the week, but the weekend scedule, particularly on a sunday is crammed.

I think the DTM will go, they've only shown 2 races live, and what was during the international breaks so they had nothing to show then.

The NRL may go to sky, I'd hope so but not sure if its that likely. They were unlucky with EuroBasket. At the last minute BBC decided to show the British games, which was all ESPN showed till the semi finals. Maybe that might put them off that.

The majority of the european football I can see them keeping. Friday Night Fights is easy as its dirt cheap with them just importing it directly from ESPN in the states.

But they need sport that happens during the week. IPL Cricket is a maybe, but with Eurosport showing the T20 Champions League, perhaps thats a hint as to where that will go.

Test cricket is a possibility-perhaps if they set their sights on Pakistani and Sri Lankan games they could get some subscrivers from those communities living in the UK. But those games will take place in the morning, leaving nothing on weekday evenings.

Perhaps they could get the German Cup, but as with the Coppa Italia that will only cover very occasional weeknights.

I'm struggling to think of stuff to fill on weeknights in prime time-any ideas dejavoodoo?

Not 100% sure myself. I always felt that once they have their studio facilities in order, ESPN might take a leaf out of the ESPN US playbook and produce a lot of studio based content. If you look at the average ESPN US schedule, you will see the have a similar problem with lack of live sports through the week, so have programmes such as preview and hype type shows to fill time. Things like College Football Live (maybe we could have EPL/SPL Live with news about all 20 EPL/12 SPL teams Mon-Fri), Sportscentre (Sports News), PTI/ATH (Sports quiz/pundit analysis) and something like You're on Sky Sports (Phone In). I think there is merit in some of these type of shows, however it's not going to attract subscribers.

[chunkc]

Originally Posted by chrisfinch

ESPN's problem is they have nothing on during the week, but the weekend scedule, particularly on a sunday is crammed.

Not enough English football is there problem.
IMO
They should have picked up the Blue Square rights.
Would give them live Footie on most weekday evenings.
The IPL, if they had it, might help in April.

Once the season ends they have nothing of intrest for the summer, and with fewer games next season I can't see them picking up that many more subs.

[ToneXIR]

Originally Posted by chrisfinch

Maybe its because I'm used to the DTM on Motors TV where it was always pretty good-even despite Carlton and Cole Heck, they even used to interrupt their all day coverage of the BTCC to show it. It just seems a bit half-arsed on ESPN really, but then the last year or so of the DTM has seemed a bit dull to me.

I have to say I didn't mind Kirby/Cole too much, at least Carlton had a laugh while doing DTM, Norbert's Mars bar eating habits always raise a smile. It was a shame that Motors lost DTM, just when they went widescreen too, and now we're left with Shouty Marriott from the world feed but better than nothing. The first few races on Setanta were a bit boring thanks to this stupid pit window rule DTM introduced last year, but it was odd that as soon as Setanta went under and stopped showing DTM among other things, all the races have been really good. The last two in particular have been very watchable and nice to see the Brits not doing too badly in them either. The Rumor mill says a 'big F1 name' will join next year as well, so could be good!

[DejaVoodoo]

Originally Posted by chunkc

Not enough English football is there problem.
IMO
They should have picked up the Blue Square rights.
Would give them live Footie on most weekday evenings.
The IPL, if they had it, might help in April.

Once the season ends they have nothing of intrest for the summer, and with fewer games next season I can't see them picking up that many more subs.

There is nothing stopping them picking up the Blue Square Premier League next season. The FA Cup would be a better pick up, however the cost would be far greater.

Personally, I still feel that ESPN would be better adding other popular sports in the UK, such as Rugby, Cricket, Motor Sport and boxing etc. Coupled with the football they have, this would be a nice alternative to Sky Sports.

[Gurj73]

Originally Posted by DejaVoodoo

Personally, I still feel that ESPN would be better adding other popular sports in the UK, such as Rugby, Cricket, Motor Sport and boxing etc.

I would be very surprised if ESPN dont pick up the rights for the IPL in Mar-Apr 2010

Only issue will be fitting into their schedules on weekends when there is loads of footy on in the afternoons.

[casinoman]

Originally Posted by DejaVoodoo

There is nothing stopping them picking up the Blue Square Premier League next season. The FA Cup would be a better pick up, however the cost would be far greater.

Personally, I still feel that ESPN would be better adding other popular sports in the UK, such as Rugby, Cricket, Motor Sport and boxing etc. Coupled with the football they have, this would be a nice alternative to Sky Sports.

Not sure what Big Time Boxing there is left and if im not mistaken Sky have a 5 year deal with Frank Warren? or is it 3?

[DejaVoodoo]

Originally Posted by casinoman

Not sure what Big Time Boxing there is left and if im not mistaken Sky have a 5 year deal with Frank Warren? or is it 3?

I was thinking of a cost effective deal with Top Rank or Showtime from the States. Something like 12 US PPV shows a year coupled with Friday Night Fights from ESPN US would attract the boxing fanbase who are used to parting with their cash for their sport.

[Delenn]

Originally Posted by ToneXIR

I have to say I didn't mind Kirby/Cole too much, at least Carlton had a laugh while doing DTM, Norbert's Mars bar eating habits always raise a smile.

We make at least one Mars bar joke in our house every race!

[leviramsey]

Originally Posted by DejaVoodoo

Not 100% sure myself. I always felt that once they have their studio facilities in order, ESPN might take a leaf out of the ESPN US playbook and produce a lot of studio based content. If you look at the average ESPN US schedule, you will see the have a similar problem with lack of live sports through the week, so have programmes such as preview and hype type shows to fill time. Things like College Football Live (maybe we could have EPL/SPL Live with news about all 20 EPL/12 SPL teams Mon-Fri), Sportscentre (Sports News), PTI/ATH (Sports quiz/pundit analysis) and something like You're on Sky Sports (Phone In). I think there is merit in some of these type of shows, however it's not going to attract subscribers.

Elaborating on that, the schedules for Wednesday on the ESPN family of networks:

ESPN
6am: SportsCenter (rolling news bulletins)
3pm: Outside the Lines First Report (deeper analysis of sports issues beyond what happens in the games)
330pm: College Football Live (college football news and analysis)
4pm: NFL Live (NFL news and analysis)
430pm: Jim Rome Is Burning (talk show)
5pm: Around the Horn (talk show)
530pm: Pardon the Interruption (talk show)
6pm: SportsCenter (news w/ "Pardon the Interruption" insert about 10-20 minutes in)
7pm: NBA Shootaround (NBA pregame show)
8pm: NBA: New Orleans @ San Antonio
1030pm: NBA: Utah @ Denver
1am: SportsCenter
3am: NBA rebroadcast: Utah @ Denver
5am: SportsCenter

ESPN2
6am: Mike and Mike in the Morning (TV broadcast of ESPN Radio's morning show)
10am: ESPN First Take (sports-oriented morning TV show)
2pm: Best of Mike and Mike (highlights from ESPN Radio's morning show)
230pm: NFL Films Presents (NFL archival footage)
3pm: The Scot Van Pelt Show (TV broadcast of ESPN Radio)
4pm: SportsNation (user-generated content/talk show)
5pm: NASCAR Now (NASCAR news and analysis)
530pm: College Football Live
6pm: Around the Horn (rebroadcast)
630pm: Pardon the Interruption (rebroadcast)
7pm: College Football Live
730pm: NFL Live
8pm: 2009 World Series of Poker
11pm: SportsCenter
12m: Baseball Tonight (MLB news and analysis)
1230am: NFL Live
1am: SportsNation (rebroadcast)
2am: NBA rebroadcast: New Orleans @ San Antonio
4am: SportsCenter
5am: Baseball Tonight

ESPNU
6am: Coaches Spotlight
10am: The Herd with Colin Cowherd (TV broadcast of ESPN Radio's midday show)
2pm: ESPNU TMI: Penn State vs. Michigan
5pm: Big 12 This Week (magazine show)
530pm: Inside the Big East (magazine show)
6pm: College Football Live
630pm: Big 12 This Week
7pm: Crunch Time
8pm: Women's Volleyball: Texas vs. Texas A&M
10pm: Women's Volleyball: Pepperdine vs. San Diego
12m: ESPNU TMI: Penn State vs. Michigan
3am: Women's Volleyball rebroadcast: Pepperdine vs. San Diego
430am: Women's Volleyball rebroadcast: Texas vs. Texas A&M

Don't knock women's college volleyball until you've seen it, btw