[Gripper Stebson]

The years of true regional ITV was brilliant. Not only did it have brilliant schedules, but also had some regional specific programmes thrown in too. So what plonker decided to nationalise it, and why? Whilst there are still some good programmes shown nowadays, overall it's a load of rubbish compared to the old days. The final straw came earlier this year(or it may have been last year) when the regional news expanded to cover much larger regions(i.e. places 100 or so miles away from where you live). And the regional news is about the only region specific programmes that are shown on ITV now. In fact the way things are going, I can foresee the regional news being axed within the next few years. That really would be the final nail in the coffin. And ITV becoming completely 100% nationalised.

I'm very nostalgic about the old days of ITV. What a great station it once was! I particularly liked the years of the invision continuity announcers. For instance how they'd say what lovely weather we had today, and thumbing through a copy of the TV Times to tell us the highlights of what's on tomorrow, etc. Oh happy days! There's some great clips like this on YouTube.

Yes sadly the days of regional ITV are well and truly over now. I can't see it ever being regionalised ever again. All we have are the memories of what a great station it once was.

[The Phazer]

Not only did it have brilliant schedules, but also had some regional specific programmes thrown in too. So what plonker decided to nationalise it, and why?

Regions were incredibly financially inefficient and only worked at the time because ITV had an effective monopoly on television advertising, and television had a not far off a monopoly on advertising full stop.

If ITV had remained regional most of those regions would now be bankrupt.

Phazer

[PJMillar]

Well, ironic you should use the word 'nationalise'.

If ITV were nationalised by the government, we'd have our regions back.

I agree with the OP's post, it takes me back to a bygone day when my station was called Westward Television.

Each regional company was quaint. Although it is not financially viable in the short term, it is definitely viable in the long term.

People (such as the poster before me) need to look at the bigger picture. Viewers like good local programming, the BBC Regional News at 6:30pm is incredibly popular.

Some of ITV's regional news programmes, when done well, can gain very high shares.

'Lookaround', Border's news service, was one of the most popular, gaining on average a 35% share. It has now gone, however.

As for programmes that have the potential to go nationwide, Grampian used to produce a regional gameshow called 'Top Club', which used to achieve a 46% share in its area (Source: Wiki)

Also, take Coronation Street as a big example. It inherited a lot of Granada's televisual ideologies. Very socialist, hence the kitchen sink appeal. LWT and Thames (ITV in London) could never produce programmes like that, and now everything has to be so glitzy and awful.

What the regional companies brought was charm and variety. Emmerdale, Heartbeat and Frost are three of Yorkshire Television's significant contributions to ITV, all able to show quality and longevity. And now, Yorkshire Studios are closed.

And the BBC just can't show this charm and variety, in my opinion. That's why it always lost in the ratings, and that's why people preferred ITV. Even now, when ITV hit gold, they really hit gold. Look at Britain's Got Talent peaking at 19 million viewers. That programme is definitely influenced from a regional production of Opportunity Knocks.

As for recent years, have ITV really had many original ideas? Primeval? Well, that comes from an independent company. Midsomer Murders, that comes from an independent company. Doc Martin, that comes from an independent company.

It seems all of ITV's shows are imported these days, when ITV could make millions from selling their shows worldwide.

Hell's Kitchen and the Agatha Christie adaptations might not be ratings winners, but they provide millions in sales worldwide. And that's why regional companies could play a role in ITV today.

It would need big, but methodical investment. ITV could create regional slots throughout the week, with negotiations on what programmes to show/drop, instead of what's going on at STV at the moment.

And though STV are being quite unfair to their viewers, they are right to want to keep their identity. Of course, they should try to negotiate with ITV in a different way, so they can broadcast its most popular programmes.

An idea I've pitched before is a Tuesday/Thursday thing. Where regional companies are able to broadcast, by and large, and what they want, from 7:30pm-10:00pm. I think this would bring more pluracy and might be a trial & error way of looking at what programmes can evolve into the main ITV schedules.

Regional companies will also be able to pitch their ideas to ITV (in order to get money) to produce shows. The problem with closing the regions is that it has closed years and years of experience from the highest level. They've moved onto different things, and deprived ITV of their ideas and quality.

ITV obviously should focus on genres that have worked in the past, and use ITV2 and ITV4 for developing unfamiliar or specific genres like certain sci-fi brands, but mainly comedy.

Shiny floor entertainment, gameshows, Comedy drama, clip shows, crime/detective drama, family drama, period drama, authored factual journeys, documentaries, current affairs and sport is where priorities should lie.

Regions could produce shows concerning the local music, wildlife, political, social scene. Because, it is all very different throughout the country.

[JAS84]

Put simply, it wasn't nationalised, but Granada gradually bought everyone else out, only Scottish, Ulster and Channel remain independent now as a result - Grampian doesn't count, as they're owned by Scottish. In fact, all the regional names are gone. Scottish and Grampian use STV, Ulster is UTV, and Channel uses the ITV1 brand despite not being owned by Granada. I wish they'd bring back the YTV chevron...

[Gripper Stebson]

Ah so basically ITV started losing a lot of views and advertising revenue. A factor in this is probably the fact from around 1995 onwards they started changing the programmes that were shown. They started dropping all the imported programmes such as the popular shows like Beverly Hills 90210, Baywatch, LA Law, etc. Then all the variety/light entertainment/game shows started dropping like flies, such as say Take Your Pick, The Price Is Right, Sunday Night at the London Palladium, etc. Then in their place they started increasing the amout of episodes per week of the soaps Emmerdale and Coronation Street, and umpteen docu-soap/reality shows like Builders From Hell, Neighbours From Hell, Work Colleagues From Hell, etc, etc. Also worth mentioning is from 1993 onwards we had next to no prime time sit-coms occupying the schedules, due to the loss of Thames Television and the many sit-coms they produced.

Anyway basically the line-up now on ITV isn't even half as good as it onces was. It's not the brilliant mix of game shows, light entertainment/variety shows, sit-coms, soaps, current affairs, wildlife shows(like Survival for example)drama, films, imported shows, sport, and region specific shows that it once was. No wonder they started losing viewers and advertising revenue. Certainly anyone over 30 who remembers ITV back in the day will remember just how good a channel it was. It was THE premiere channel for many.

That said, I can't think of one channel out of all the satellite/cable channels that is a good all round channel showing a variety of programming that you could watch for hours at a time every day. I don't for example want to watch three or four hours per night of just sci-fi shows, or just history shows, or just re-runs of old comedies that have been constantly repeated. Even the channels like Sky 1, 2, and 3 don't really interest me and I rarely watch anything on those channels, let alone for hours at a time every night. What's missing in this country is a good all round channel. Even BBC1 isn't as good as it used to be too.

Maybe if ITV started getting things back to how they were in the 1980's, with the fantastic range of programming that period offered, then maybe ITV will start winning back viewers and advertising revenue. Whilst the rating for their shows will never be as good as they were in their heyday, the ratings could be an improvement on what they are now.

[80sfan]

Originally Posted by Gripper Stebson

Ah so basically ITV started losing a lot of views and advertising revenue. A factor in this is probably the fact from around 1995 onwards they started changing the programmes that were shown. They started dropping all the imported programmes such as the popular shows like Beverly Hills 90210, Baywatch, LA Law, etc. Then all the variety/light entertainment/game shows started dropping like flies, such as say Take Your Pick, The Price Is Right, Sunday Night at the London Palladium, etc. Then in their place they started increasing the amout of episodes per week of the soaps Emmerdale and Coronation Street, and umpteen docu-soap/reality shows like Builders From Hell, Neighbours From Hell, Work Colleagues From Hell, etc, etc. Also worth mentioning is from 1993 onwards we had next to no prime time sit-coms occupying the schedules, due to the loss of Thames Television and the many sit-coms they produced.

Anyway basically the line-up now on ITV isn't even half as good as it onces was. It's not the brilliant mix of game shows, light entertainment/variety shows, sit-coms, soaps, current affairs, wildlife shows(like Survival for example)drama, films, imported shows, sport, and region specific shows that it once was. No wonder they started losing viewers and advertising revenue. Certainly anyone over 30 who remembers ITV back in the day will remember just how good a channel it was. It was THE premiere channel for many.
That said, I can't think of one channel out of all the satellite/cable channels that is a good all round channel showing a variety of programming that you could watch for hours at a time every day. I don't for example want to watch three or four hours per night of just sci-fi shows, or just history shows, or just re-runs of old comedies that have been constantly repeated. Even the channels like Sky 1, 2, and 3 don't really interest me and I rarely watch anything on those channels, let alone for hours at a time every night. What's missing in this country is a good all round channel. Even BBC1 isn't as good as it used to be too.

Maybe if ITV started getting things back to how they were in the 1980's, with the fantastic range of programming that period offered, then maybe ITV will start winning back viewers and advertising revenue. Whilst the rating for their shows will never be as good as they were in their heyday, the ratings could be an improvement on what they are now.

Excellent post Gripper, and what I've highlighted in bold sums it up for me. It's sad to say I can't even remember the last time ITV showed anything I wanted to watch

Even 15 years ago, I'd have said I watched ITV more than any other channel. Sadly today all I see are endless northern soaps, 'reality' shows, 'X,Y,Z from Hell' and repeats of things like Police Camera Action. Local news is a disgrace now too on ITV

[stripedcat]

You make an excellent point Gripper about the current state of ITV. In the past the BBC's local news programmes(even in the days of Nationwide) were not as local based as ITV's were so viewers who wanted local news went to ITV in those days. You also have to remember that ITN and the News At Ten were much more associated with ITV, even when ITN started doing Channel 4 news the ITN broadcasts were good on ITV.

Sadly ITV stopped doing children's TV in the 90s and that is a shame as they left it all up to the BBC. Remember classic serials like "Children of Stone", "Famous Five", and "Henry's Leg" on ITV.

Whilst sit coms and comedy weren't that much good on ITV I think The New Statesman and Spitting Image were great on ITV.

I suppose you make a good point about the US imports(although 90210 and Baywatch are hardly highbrow stuff) they dropped the ball and allowed Sky and Channel 4 to scoop up all the good US programmes(Sopranos, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, etc). The only decent US programme they show nowadays is Dexter, and they don't seem to advertise that much.

Their current drama line up is rubbish. I will admit I liked The Fixer(a shame that has been axed) and also Primevial wasn't bad. But come on back in the early 90s they had Cracker, September Song, and even Minder was still high quality in those days.

A shame they got rid of World in Action. Their current affairs line up is flimsily as hell.

Another bad move by ITV is the axing of The South Bank Show. Okay Bragg is to retire by why not look for a new presenter of the show? ITV don't even have a film review programme any more they used to have The Little Video Show with Mariella Frostup, and I also remember an Arts programme called The Pier(similar to BBC' The Culture Show). Again more dumbing down.

I suppose The X Factor has helped to bring the light entertainment audience back to ITV.

Things don't look good for much new material from ITV, you only have to look at some of their old programmes on their website for downloads or popping up on ITV 3 or 4 and see the downward spiral it is taking.

[Gripper Stebson]

The Little Video Show? You're thinking of both Video View and The Little Picture Show. Both hosted by Mariella Frostrup and both good shows. There was also things like Hollywood Report - a British made show about the Hollywood movie and entertainment scene. That was good too. Lots of great stuff on ITV late at night/early morning's back in the day.

Another complaint I have about ITV(ITV1) as it is now, is the repeating of certain programmes just a day or so later at similar times of the day. For instance on Saturdays at 7:30pm is Harry Hill's TV Burp. Yet it's also repeated on Sundays at 6:45pm! And also Piers Morgan's Life Stories on Saturdays at 9:45pm, repeated Thursday's at 10:35pm! Is there any need of this? Sure, repeat the shows on ITV2/3, but not repeat the shows on the same channel at similar times to the original screening! Put something new on in these time slots instead. This sort of scheduling would never have happened back in ITV's heyday.

I've just read on the internet that ITV intends to drop regional news by 2012! So that will be the final nail in the coffin.

ITV is gradually going down the gutter. It's now run by a bunch of complete muppets it seems! There's a number of things they could do to improve the quality of the channel and get more advertising revenue. But they're simply not interested it seems in getting ITV back on top as the UK's premiere channel everyone watches. It's as though they want to kill ITV off!

[Tassium]

It's possible that the regional nature of ITV just happened to be around when it was a good network, but the reason ITV was good was down to something else entirely.


The people who set-up the original ITV network companies were risk-takers and, to a large degree, showmen.

When they died or sold out, those who bought up the ready-made companies were a very different type of people with little understanding of the business. After all, does a cook buy ready-meals?

We see this often with companies that have been around for a bit, the original risk-taking "genius" pops his clogs and the mercenary banker-types buy it up.

All is well for a time, until society changes (often down to technological changes) and the new owners have not got a clue how to change to survive and prosper.

Then you see the risk-taking begin again with new endevours like broadband and so forth.

[TUC]

ITV has really lost out by the lack of creative tension compared to what existed under the old system. The sheer fact of having a number of different programme making companies all having to fight and make their case for their programmes getting a national slot drove up quality by the need to demonstrate that programme x was better than programme y from another company.

It may not be possible to recreate the same old structure but ITV would really benefit by recreating that tension and incentive.

[Bill Clinton]

It's only STV & UTV that could compete on that tension but they're not bothering to compete with ITV1 they're just going their own way. ITV1's programming decisions are completely unchallenged and as a result its weaker than its ever been which is sad because it used to be very good.
Does anyone else think its not quite right that STV & UTV get to be independent from ITV1 but welsh viewers are stuck with ITV1 Wales, what would a maverick welsh version of STV be like?, there should be a risk taking Channel 3 company there that could display its independence from ITV and put lots of its own welsh shows in the schedules in place of lots of ITV1 shows.

It's not fair like Scotland & Northern Ireland, Wales has its own assembley but its channel 3 remains almost completely in London-based control and doesn't pay much homage to Wales and welshness in general on its ITV1 variant. At least the welsh have a strong broadcaster in the form of S4C to represent them which is the equivalent to STV there except without having the advantage of some of the countries top shows like Coronation Street.
If you are Welsh what do you think of ITV1 Wales?


Why are ITV1 now allowed to make only 30 minutes a fortnight of regional programmes outside the regional news? Before this change there being a different Soccer Night for each region and I remember there being the occasional regional programme on Sundays such as Locks & Quays in the Granada region which is now one of the Discovery channels.

The only thing I would say in mitigation of ITV1 is despite not representing the regions anymore is that there are sometimes still some quite good shows on the schedule and the network is looking better in quality now that it's dropped all its overnight quiz slots, last night they were showing a Halloween film at 1am whilst stv had live casino.

But the atmosphere of the channel can be rather hollow as we are reminded of what it once had, whenever I see Midsomer Murders scheduled at 4pm I remember that this was once the slot that CITV had every day and there were new british childrens show such as Knightmare and Children's Ward being made for it.
After Midnight there used to be a diverse mix of creative little shows such as the video review programme, the hitman and her, Get Stuffed and US imports, the schedule used to run right through to the 5.30 Early Morning News there was no Nightscreen (but Yorkshire did have Jobfinder).
On Saturday mornings there wasn't a Coronation Street omnibus, there was a live studio show for kids and cartoons and live action, across the weekend you'd find Looney Tunes dropped in here and there which gave the schedule a charm. Saturday afternoons didn't just show crusty old murder mysteries they had things like Dinosaurs, Movies, Games & Videos and Knight Rider, it was distinctly different from the Sunday schedule which would be more likely to offer a Bond film and a regional programme.
Primetimes would offer a lot more than just Coronation Street & Emmerdale, there was also game shows and strong factual output in the evening. Some of this has slightly returned but factual output could do with getting stronger, Tonight is there now in place of World In Action which used to feature strong, thought-provoking & compelling topics, Tonight by comparison comes across like a quick documentary made for readers of the Daily Mail about the slight concerns of the middle classes. There was also The Cook Report, what has replaced that?
Going even further back Granada used to make a lot of groundbreaking dramas and documentaries, it was only under the original Granada culture that programmes such as Coronation Street were made possible, that in itself demonstrates how important it must be to not have accountants in charge and for a channel to be risk-taking and maverick in some respects.
The problem now is while the channel may be reasonably OK, but we can remember how good it once was and it would take a change in attitude and finding the people with the right outlook to work at ITV to change things. Just because there are all these other channels airing many strong programmes doesn't mean that ITV1 should give up what made it great, make groundbreaking programmes and people will still flock to the channel.

[Mikeandhersonq]

ITV News should move to Manchester and BBC News stay in London. That would mean we have a good balance of news broadcasting - and it already seems that ITV appeals to the North while BBC appeals to the South. Scotland have STV and N I have UTV, Wales have S4C. Maybe if ITV, BBC, 4 and five all became publisher broadcasters and made companies independent companies such as BBC Studios, ITV Studios it would all be better.

[stripedcat]

Originally Posted by Gripper Stebson

The Little Video Show? You're thinking of both Video View and The Little Picture Show. Both hosted by Mariella Frostrup and both good shows. There was also things like Hollywood Report - a British made show about the Hollywood movie and entertainment scene. That was good too. Lots of great stuff on ITV late at night/early morning's back in the day.

Thanks for the correction. Sad that ITV gave up on a film review programme, mind you I don't watch the Beeb's one now that Wossy is on it nowadays!

I agree pretty much with what all the posters have said on this posting. It is really depressing to see ITV nowadays(I only really watch it for films, I do sort of like ITV 3 and 4 but then I only watch some of the old ITV programmes I missed first time around like Brideshead, and I enjoy the repeats of Robin of Sherwood(love that theme tune come back HTV!!!!). God I never thought I'd miss the days of Southern Television or TVS(they had so many opt outs on the big films and programmes, not at Xmas time though).

[Alan Gowdy]

Thanks to digital technology we can now see hundreds of different channels on our TV sets. Hooray.

That's hundreds of channels all fighting for a share of advertising revenue that is both diminishing and being redirected towards the internet.
Face it folks - the good times are over. Perhaps pay-per-view will enable decent programmes to survive. Perhaps convergence with the net will give programming a new lease of life.

Don't hold your breath though. Switch off the lights when you leave please.