BBC iPlayer HD.. is it supposed to be 1280x720? - Broadcasting

DaveHutch · 31-10-2009, 17:21

It's just that I downloaded the HD episode of Life...Mammals and it definitely isn't.
Anybody else?

neil.christie · 31-10-2009, 17:59

The bitrate on iPlayer "HD" programmes is less than the broadcast bitrate of BBC One on Freeview.

DaveHutch · 31-10-2009, 22:49

It's more the fact that the Internet window and the subsequent downloaded file window are definitely not 1280 pixels x 720 pixels.
If I do a quick screen capture of the video window it's more like 830 x 440.
There is a small "intro" clip that goes with the episode showing a cat in a garden and the BBC HD logo. That is definitely 1280x720
Should the episode be that size as well?

mad_dude · 31-10-2009, 22:51

it is 720x404 definatly not HD and BBC 1 is 720x575

DaveHutch · 01-11-2009, 14:54

So are we agreed, that is not what it's supposed to be?

Mal · 01-11-2009, 16:19

HD is a loosely used term on the web, it simply means it's a higher definition than the standard definition offered, obvious example being YouTube.

jzee · 01-11-2009, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveHutch

It's more the fact that the Internet window and the subsequent downloaded file window are definitely not 1280 pixels x 720 pixels.
If I do a quick screen capture of the video window it's more like 830 x 440.
There is a small "intro" clip that goes with the episode showing a cat in a garden and the BBC HD logo. That is definitely 1280x720
Should the episode be that size as well?

Not sure how you are ascertaining what resolution the intro and the main prog are in- you do realise you can watch in full screen right

?

mossy2103 · 01-11-2009, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

HD is a loosely used term on the web, it simply means it's a higher definition than the standard definition offered, obvious example being YouTube.

Not according to the standards that the BBC set itself:

Quote:

The BBC HD Channel quality controllers have high standards and insisted that for us to label content as "HD" it had to be true HD - i.e. 720p or above with no obvious encoding artefacts. No cheating (as some other video sites do) labelling anything upwards of 800x600 as HD - our HD needed to be at least 1280x720.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcintern...dds_highe.html

Mal · 01-11-2009, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by mossy2103

Not according to the standards that the BBC set itself:

Yeah, but that sounds like it's TV related, not internet streaming or downloading. With the latter, content providers compromise due to the way it's distributed and viewed. Things like processing power, bandwidth, viewer connections etc...

DaveHutch · 01-11-2009, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzee

Not sure how you are ascertaining what resolution the intro and the main prog are in- you do realise you can watch in full screen right

?

By playing the movies at 100% size and then measuring the height and width in pixels.
Of course I realise I can play them full screen, but you do realise that doesn't change the resolution don't you?

mossy2103 · 01-11-2009, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

Yeah, but that sounds like it's TV related, not internet streaming or downloading. With the latter, content providers compromise due to the way it's distributed and viewed. Things like processing power, bandwidth, viewer connections etc...

It was a standard set for TV, however if you read the whole entry there is a clear implication that it applies to any BBC HD output, iPlayer included

jzee · 01-11-2009, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveHutch

By playing the movies at 100% size and then measuring the height and width in pixels.
Of course I realise I can play them full screen, but you do realise that doesn't change the resolution don't you?

That is not an accurate way to check resolution of a video file- I know for a fact that BBC HD iplayer files are 1280 x 720.

mossy2103 · 01-11-2009, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzee

That is not an accurate way to check resolution of a video file- I know for a fact that BBC HD iplayer files are 1280 x 720.

So they ARE as they are supposed to be then

jzee · 01-11-2009, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by mossy2103

So they ARE as they are supposed to be then

Yes

.

DaveHutch · 01-11-2009, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzee

That is not an accurate way to check resolution of a video file- I know for a fact that BBC HD iplayer files are 1280 x 720.

Can you elaborate please?
How should I measure them?
And when you say not accurate, are we talking the difference between 1280 pixels and 800 pixels?

When you say you know for a fact...how?

Gilson · 01-11-2009, 17:55

If I right click in the iPlayer HD picture on the PC it tells me the bitrate codec and that it is 1280x720.

whynotandy · 01-11-2009, 17:59

Just did a quick check on a HD files I got from the Iplayer

Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.2
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 26mn 9s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 991 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.130
Stream size : 560 MiB (94%)

1280x720 @3mbit

DaveHutch · 01-11-2009, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilson

If I right click in the iPlayer HD picture on the PC it tells me the bitrate codec and that it is 1280x720.

Mine does too, but it definitely isn't that size

DaveHutch · 01-11-2009, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by whynotandy

Just did a quick check on a HD files I got from the Iplayer

Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.2
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 26mn 9s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 991 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.130
Stream size : 560 MiB (94%)

1280x720 @3mbit

How do you check them? Also, are you sure it's not just taking information from the file header?

If you measure the video window, what are its pixel dimensions?

plastik2k9 · 01-11-2009, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveHutch

If you measure the video window, what are its pixel dimensions?

Well I measured 842x468 (give or take), but don't forget that the 1280x720 video is being shrunk to fit into that. 1280x720 is too large to sensibly fit onto a webpage, which is the same reason Youtube HD videos are best viewed in full screen.

DaveHutch · 01-11-2009, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastik2k9

Well I measured 842x468 (give or take), but don't forget that the 1280x720 video is being shrunk to fit into that. 1280x720 is too large to sensibly fit onto a webpage, which is the same reason Youtube HD videos are best viewed in full screen.

That doesn't explain downloaded programmes though does it?
Using iPlayer Desktop it would be simple to view 1280x720 full sized without having to resort to "view full screen".

In Quicktime I can watch a 1920x1080 video full size at 100% so maybe the question to ask is, are we watching it 100% in the player and if not, how do we watch at 100% because that is entirely different to watching it at full-screen (screens are all different sizes of course)

tv-Addict · 02-11-2009, 13:49

For available iPlayer resolutions see here:
http://beebhack.wikia.com/wiki/IPlayer_TV

Looks like you were getting "flashvhigh" 832x468 instead of "flashhd" 1280x720.

This may happen if there is not enough bandwidth.

DaveHutch · 02-11-2009, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tv-Addict

For available iPlayer resolutions see here:
http://beebhack.wikia.com/wiki/IPlayer_TV

Looks like you were getting "flashvhigh" 832x468 instead of "flashhd" 1280x720.

This may happen if there is not enough bandwidth.

Would that also affect the downloaded file which is 1.2GB on my hard drive as opposed to about 600MB for the SD version though?
In iPlayer Desktop that should play in the correct size window, but SD and HD open in the same size window as each other.
My desktop is 1920x1200 on a MacBook Pro

tv-Addict · 03-11-2009, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveHutch

Would that also affect the downloaded file which is 1.2GB on my hard drive as opposed to about 600MB for the SD version though?
In iPlayer Desktop that should play in the correct size window, but SD and HD open in the same size window as each other.
My desktop is 1920x1200 on a MacBook Pro

I would not expect a download to be affected by bandwidth available - it would just take longer to download if you had a poor rate.

For Life - Mammals, file sizes are:
flashhd=1406MB
flashvhigh=659MB
flashhigh=350MB
flashlow=352MB
flashstd=211MB
iphone=227MB
n95_3g=45MB
n95_wifi=81MB

so it looks like you do have the HD version.

I don't use the iPlayer desktop so I do not know why the window is not full size... maybe it just remembers the last size you used?
maybe HD only runs in Full screen?

DaveHutch · 03-11-2009, 16:37

Hopefully the BBC Support people will be able to clarify when they get around to answering my question. I'll let you know what they say

31-10-2009, 17:21	#1
DaveHutch Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, England Services: Philips DTR1500, Humax PVR 8000T, Virgin V-Box Posts: 52	BBC iPlayer HD.. is it supposed to be 1280x720? It's just that I downloaded the HD episode of Life...Mammals and it definitely isn't. Anybody else?

31-10-2009, 17:59	#2
neil.christie Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 308	The bitrate on iPlayer "HD" programmes is less than the broadcast bitrate of BBC One on Freeview.

31-10-2009, 22:49	#3
DaveHutch Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, England Services: Philips DTR1500, Humax PVR 8000T, Virgin V-Box Posts: 52	It's more the fact that the Internet window and the subsequent downloaded file window are definitely not 1280 pixels x 720 pixels. If I do a quick screen capture of the video window it's more like 830 x 440. There is a small "intro" clip that goes with the episode showing a cat in a garden and the BBC HD logo. That is definitely 1280x720 Should the episode be that size as well?

31-10-2009, 22:51	#4
mad_dude Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Services: SKY, Freesat HD, Freeview 20mb. PS3,CFW PSP 60gb (320gb),Wii, Saturn Posts: 3,674	it is 720x404 definatly not HD and BBC 1 is 720x575

01-11-2009, 14:54	#5
DaveHutch Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, England Services: Philips DTR1500, Humax PVR 8000T, Virgin V-Box Posts: 52	So are we agreed, that is not what it's supposed to be?

01-11-2009, 16:19	#6
Mal Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,212	HD is a loosely used term on the web, it simply means it's a higher definition than the standard definition offered, obvious example being YouTube.

01-11-2009, 17:55	#16
Gilson Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 851	If I right click in the iPlayer HD picture on the PC it tells me the bitrate codec and that it is 1280x720.

01-11-2009, 17:59	#17
whynotandy Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 19	Just did a quick check on a HD files I got from the Iplayer Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : High@L3.2 Format settings, CABAC : No Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames Codec ID : avc1 Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding Duration : 26mn 9s Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 2 991 Kbps Width : 1 280 pixels Height : 720 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 25.000 fps Standard : PAL Resolution : 24 bits Colorimetry : 4:2:0 Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.130 Stream size : 560 MiB (94%) 1280x720 @3mbit

02-11-2009, 13:49	#22
tv-Addict Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 57	For available iPlayer resolutions see here: http://beebhack.wikia.com/wiki/IPlayer_TV Looks like you were getting "flashvhigh" 832x468 instead of "flashhd" 1280x720. This may happen if there is not enough bandwidth.

03-11-2009, 16:37	#25
DaveHutch Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, England Services: Philips DTR1500, Humax PVR 8000T, Virgin V-Box Posts: 52	Hopefully the BBC Support people will be able to clarify when they get around to answering my question. I'll let you know what they say