Why is the picture quality of Friends so ATROCIOUS - Broadcasting

stirlingguy1 · 03-11-2009, 06:16

On Freeview...its appalling, grainy, dim and not sharp at all. You could expect it on analogue. Its terrible. Is it something to do with converting US-UK formats? If so, how come are other US programmes ok to watch?

Two9A · 03-11-2009, 08:09

It's because E4 have run the DVDs down to ribbons. Doesn't surprise me that the picture quality's degrading over time, especially when they get run through the players so often.

hardylane · 03-11-2009, 08:28

This is nonsense.

They are bad quality because they were filmed on NTSC cameras, made to look like film, edited, converted to PAL and encoded using a bad converter.

There's so many artifacts they should be ashamed. Running the playout from the domestic DVDs would be better!

derek500 · 03-11-2009, 08:33

Also, a lot of people stretch the 4:3 image (Friends wasn't made in widescreen), to fill their 16:9 screens. That makes it look even lower quality.

stirlingguy1 · 03-11-2009, 09:38

Its literally unwatchable sometimes. God bless digital TV hey. They said it'd be better than terretrial. It really is worse.

hardylane · 03-11-2009, 09:48

It's a tradeoff.... often unstable image but good transmitted picture versus stable image and shite transmitted picture.

A single frame of PAL analogue broadcast is infinitely better than a single frame of compressed-to-hell MPEG2 (especially given the low bandwidth of DTT)

156418 · 03-11-2009, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardylane

They are bad quality because they were filmed on NTSC cameras, made to look like film, edited, converted to PAL and encoded using a bad converter.

There's a similar problem on other American progs from the same time - Frasier, Everybody Hates Raymond etc

hopeandfaith06 · 03-11-2009, 10:48

Sorry to bring up a different point, but the post about 4:3 and widescreen reminded me,

How come some American shows/adverts etc still seem to be in 4:3?

I have my TV set to show things in their correct ratio, and i was watching the American Apprentice on BBC One last night and they were in 4:3. Also many animated shows, even new ones like Family Guy are in 4:3
Why? Have America still not discovered 16:9?

derek500 · 03-11-2009, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopeandfaith06

Why? Have America still not discovered 16:9?

US TV only use 16:9 for HD. Any programme not made in HD will still be 4:3.

k3ckham · 03-11-2009, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

US TV only use 16:9 for HD. Any programme not made in HD will still be 4:3.

the first season of 24 was not in HD but was W/S.

angustay · 03-11-2009, 16:09

E4 are using older channel 4 tapes (and yes I do mean tape) it's cheaper than ordering new copies from abroad or using other sources. Even if E4's picture quality was 100% some of the older stuff they show have been used so often the quality has degraded. America use NTSC and never use widescreen on SD transmissions which causes some picture problems in the UK in saying that when Friends first aired on channel four the quality was far better than it is now and back then a lot of us were still using analogue. Basically E4 need's a better copy but it will cost them more money.

linkinpark875 · 03-11-2009, 16:23

I wonder how shows like Scrubs and 8 Simple Rules look so good?

For example another show that looks bad is Two and a Half men on Viva? How come the copies are so poor?

Friends looks extremely bad surprised anybody watches it. Did they never do HD conversions of these shows?

rocketronnie75 · 03-11-2009, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by stirlingguy1

On Freeview...its appalling, grainy, dim and not sharp at all. You could expect it on analogue. Its terrible. Is it something to do with converting US-UK formats? If so, how come are other US programmes ok to watch?

Asda is doing a deal on friends. the box with all 10 seasons for £39

beavis · 03-11-2009, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardylane

This is nonsense.

They are bad quality because they were filmed on NTSC cameras, made to look like film, edited, converted to PAL and encoded using a bad converter.

There's so many artifacts they should be ashamed. Running the playout from the domestic DVDs would be better!

AFAIK Friends was shot on film not NTSC cameras. The quality of the pictures gradually improves over the 10 seasons. To me it also seems crap on the DVDs, but much sharper than on E4.

uk_xtreme · 03-11-2009, 21:18

They were all shot on film, so in theory a good HD (albeit 4:3 windowboxed) transfer is obtainable. However, what we have is the original show, recorded to video, then converted from PAL to NTSC, then sent over the air at the less than optimal resolution of 544x576 using the dated MPEG-2 codec at a lower bitrate than was intended. It all adds up.
Seinfeld was filmed the same way, and they have created HD transfers for the Blu Ray market. The same will likely happen to Friends eventually.

As to why How I Met You Mother, and Scrubs look better, its because they are taken straight from the HD source (digital), and transferred to widescreen PAL, then transmitted. So whilst they would look far better in HD, they stand up in standard definition compared to the picture quality we're used to

James2001 · 03-11-2009, 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by uk_xtreme

They were all shot on film, so in theory a good HD (albeit 4:3 windowboxed) transfer is obtainable.

Even though it was shot on film, it was still edited and mastered on NTSC video- to get a HD version would involve going back to the original film material (if it even still exists in its entirety) and re-constructing the programmes entirely from scratch- a VERY expensive and time consiming process.

Timothy Bryce · 03-11-2009, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by James2001

Even though it was shot on film, it was still edited and mastered on NTSC video- to get a HD version would involve going back to the original film material (if it even still exists in its entirety) and re-constructing the programmes entirely from scratch- a VERY expensive and time consiming process.

Which will 100% happen for friends

remlap · 04-11-2009, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by uk_xtreme

As to why How I Met You Mother, and Scrubs look better, its because they are taken straight from the HD source (digital), and transferred to widescreen PAL, then transmitted. So whilst they would look far better in HD, they stand up in standard definition compared to the picture quality we're used to

Scrubs has never been broadcast in widescreen in the UK.

uk_xtreme · 05-11-2009, 00:45

New series on E4

Cent · 05-11-2009, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy Bryce

Which will 100% happen for friends

I agree, it will happen eventually. Anything popular that is on film will be seen in HD one day, or maybe even Super HD, or Super Super HD.

But it could be very time consuming, essentially re-editing every single episode from stratch.

mad_dude · 05-11-2009, 02:19

if it is being shown on tape e4 have probably worn the tapes down

dd68 · 05-11-2009, 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two9A

It's because E4 have run the DVDs down to ribbons. Doesn't surprise me that the picture quality's degrading over time, especially when they get run through the players so often.

I think this is the best explanation

James2001 · 05-11-2009, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by dd68

I think this is the best explanation

Even though they run everything digitally off of a server, which means it can't possibly be the reason.

hardylane · 05-11-2009, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by dd68

I think this is the best explanation

And that's how you "wear down" DVDs is it? The lasers cut the disc into ribbons.

Poppycock.

BTW, if the tapes were "worn down" then you'd get thousands of dropouts, not just plain, horrible, bad video quality.

Adam D · 05-11-2009, 17:26

I agree, now obviously the series near the end were better quality overall from the start. I've been watching the episodes on e4 and a few weeks ago was the last episode and it started from the begining again and my word did i notice the quality, it really is bad. They must be using old tapes as i have the dvd set and although its not great quality near the start of the series its way better.

03-11-2009, 06:16	#1
stirlingguy1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Belfast Posts: 3,767	Why is the picture quality of Friends so ATROCIOUS On Freeview...its appalling, grainy, dim and not sharp at all. You could expect it on analogue. Its terrible. Is it something to do with converting US-UK formats? If so, how come are other US programmes ok to watch?

03-11-2009, 08:09	#2
Two9A Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 199	It's because E4 have run the DVDs down to ribbons. Doesn't surprise me that the picture quality's degrading over time, especially when they get run through the players so often.

03-11-2009, 08:28	#3
hardylane Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Services: Sky+, Freeview, Virgin XXL Broadband, Sony DVD/PVR, PS2, Xbox, Windows 7 Posts: 934	This is nonsense. They are bad quality because they were filmed on NTSC cameras, made to look like film, edited, converted to PAL and encoded using a bad converter. There's so many artifacts they should be ashamed. Running the playout from the domestic DVDs would be better!

03-11-2009, 08:33	#4
derek500 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 4,314	Also, a lot of people stretch the 4:3 image (Friends wasn't made in widescreen), to fill their 16:9 screens. That makes it look even lower quality.

03-11-2009, 09:38	#5
stirlingguy1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Belfast Posts: 3,767	Its literally unwatchable sometimes. God bless digital TV hey. They said it'd be better than terretrial. It really is worse.

03-11-2009, 09:48	#6
hardylane Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Services: Sky+, Freeview, Virgin XXL Broadband, Sony DVD/PVR, PS2, Xbox, Windows 7 Posts: 934	It's a tradeoff.... often unstable image but good transmitted picture versus stable image and shite transmitted picture. A single frame of PAL analogue broadcast is infinitely better than a single frame of compressed-to-hell MPEG2 (especially given the low bandwidth of DTT)

03-11-2009, 10:48	#8
hopeandfaith06 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Penrith, Cumbria Services: www.itvgallery.co.uk www.twitter.com/tomo359 Posts: 12,752	Sorry to bring up a different point, but the post about 4:3 and widescreen reminded me, How come some American shows/adverts etc still seem to be in 4:3? I have my TV set to show things in their correct ratio, and i was watching the American Apprentice on BBC One last night and they were in 4:3. Also many animated shows, even new ones like Family Guy are in 4:3 Why? Have America still not discovered 16:9?

03-11-2009, 16:09	#11
angustay Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 558	E4 are using older channel 4 tapes (and yes I do mean tape) it's cheaper than ordering new copies from abroad or using other sources. Even if E4's picture quality was 100% some of the older stuff they show have been used so often the quality has degraded. America use NTSC and never use widescreen on SD transmissions which causes some picture problems in the UK in saying that when Friends first aired on channel four the quality was far better than it is now and back then a lot of us were still using analogue. Basically E4 need's a better copy but it will cost them more money.

03-11-2009, 16:23	#12
linkinpark875 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 8,525	I wonder how shows like Scrubs and 8 Simple Rules look so good? For example another show that looks bad is Two and a Half men on Viva? How come the copies are so poor? Friends looks extremely bad surprised anybody watches it. Did they never do HD conversions of these shows?

03-11-2009, 21:18	#15
uk_xtreme Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Manchester Posts: 283	They were all shot on film, so in theory a good HD (albeit 4:3 windowboxed) transfer is obtainable. However, what we have is the original show, recorded to video, then converted from PAL to NTSC, then sent over the air at the less than optimal resolution of 544x576 using the dated MPEG-2 codec at a lower bitrate than was intended. It all adds up. Seinfeld was filmed the same way, and they have created HD transfers for the Blu Ray market. The same will likely happen to Friends eventually. As to why How I Met You Mother, and Scrubs look better, its because they are taken straight from the HD source (digital), and transferred to widescreen PAL, then transmitted. So whilst they would look far better in HD, they stand up in standard definition compared to the picture quality we're used to

05-11-2009, 00:45	#19
uk_xtreme Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Manchester Posts: 283	New series on E4

05-11-2009, 02:19	#21
mad_dude Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Services: SKY, Freesat HD, Freeview 20mb. PS3,CFW PSP 60gb (320gb),Wii, Saturn Posts: 3,808	if it is being shown on tape e4 have probably worn the tapes down

05-11-2009, 17:26	#25
Adam D Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK, Services: Sky+/+mulitiroom. SkyBB, iPhone3G 16GB, AcerAspireOne+Windows7, VistaLaptop Posts: 4,662 Blog Entries: 5	I agree, now obviously the series near the end were better quality overall from the start. I've been watching the episodes on e4 and a few weeks ago was the last episode and it started from the begining again and my word did i notice the quality, it really is bad. They must be using old tapes as i have the dvd set and although its not great quality near the start of the series its way better.