'C4's Bellamy: British TV is getting bland' - Broadcasting

phildesign · 05-11-2009, 09:32

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcasting/news/a185320/c4s-bellamy-british-tv-is-getting-bland.html

...This from the man who insists on inflicting us with a further two interminable series' of Big Brother.

Servalan · 05-11-2009, 14:19

Quite. And giving careers to talent voids such as Justin Lee Collins and Gok Wan.

This, along with Andy Duncan's pathetic rant at the BBC yesterday, is just another example of C4 pointing the finger to cover its own ineptitude.

Perhaps they should spend a little less time bitching and instead concentrate on commissioning programmes people want to watch - something they have spectacularly failed to do all on their own.

mikw · 05-11-2009, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servalan

Quite. And giving careers to talent voids such as Justin Lee Collins and Gok Wan.

This, along with Andy Duncan's pathetic rant at the BBC yesterday, is just another example of C4 pointing the finger to cover its own ineptitude.

Perhaps they should spend a little less time bitching and instead concentrate on commissioning programmes people want to watch - something they have spectacularly failed to do all on their own.

It's a common enough fault, commercial media bosses blaming the BBC, when they should be sorting out their own house.

It's ironic, with C4 bosses comments, that channel 4 itself is much blander than it used to be.

hardylane · 05-11-2009, 14:27

Try coming up with a decent arguement...Big Brother has supplied the media and the viewing public with a hell of a lot of highly risky material (except of course the last series which for once I didn't watch because it was dull as dishwater)

I think he's spot on. This culture of audience power is killing TV... phone-ins, right to replies, PCC complaints... it gives the great uneducated the right to be as irrational as possible, with the least amount of responsibilty for their actions.

The recent "scandals" regard Ross, Brand and Boyle made me utterly sick. The complainers exhibited self-righteous, puffed up, twattery of the first degree.

I get offended by things every day... ignorant people, officious people, filthy streets, parking charges... the list goes on.... I have NO right NOT to be offended, thankfully, otherwise the world was grind to a halt.

Blasphemy laws have been repealed, thankfully, so the god-botherers of a thousand religions now have no legal recourse when we tell them their prophets are figments of their imagination.

The same needs to be done for TV... let them offend... let them get back to creating ground-breaking, opinion-influencing television... put Joe Public back in his bloody box.

Servalan · 05-11-2009, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardylane

Try coming up with a decent arguement...Big Brother has supplied the media and the viewing public with a hell of a lot of highly risky material (except of course the last series which for once I didn't watch because it was dull as dishwater)

I think he's spot on. This culture of audience power is killing TV... phone-ins, right to replies, PCC complaints... it gives the great uneducated the right to be as irrational as possible, with the least amount of responsibilty for their actions.

The recent "scandals" regard Ross, Brand and Boyle made me utterly sick. The complainers exhibited self-righteous, puffed up, twattery of the first degree.

I get offended by things every day... ignorant people, officious people, filthy streets, parking charges... the list goes on.... I have NO right NOT to be offended, thankfully, otherwise the world was grind to a halt.

Blasphemy laws have been repealed, thankfully, so the god-botherers of a thousand religions now have no legal recourse when we tell them their prophets are figments of their imagination.

The same needs to be done for TV... let them offend... let them get back to creating ground-breaking, opinion-influencing television... put Joe Public back in his bloody box.

Big Brother - risky?

As if. BB is stage-managed to high heaven. It pushes none of the boundaries C4 was supposed to extend and has nothing to say. It pretends to be 'shocking' but is actually as corporate, bland and as conformist as it gets.

If C4 was so interested in pushing boundaries, how come it didn't even bid for Mad Men, The Shield, Breaking Bad or The Wire? How come it consigned the genuinely ground-breaking US dramas it did buy to the middle of the night? How come they turned down Life On Mars when it was originally pitched to them?

And when Bellamy slags off other channels for returning to old titles, why is he not admitting that C4 wanted to re-make Day Of The Triffids - one of the titles he slags the BBC off for commissioning?

I'm all for ground-breaking, opinion-influencing television. But C4 is just about the last place you'll find it now.

slow motion · 05-11-2009, 15:18

From the DS news item:

Quote:

Bellamy singled out the BBC as being particularly conservative in its editorial decisions, largely because a series of recent scandals have led the corporation to "avoid disruptive, potentially controversial ideas like the plague".

The BBC's conservatism is an "unintended consequence" of its method of funding, said Bellamy, as intense public scrutiny puts pressures on the corporation's ability to take risks.

"We live in an era when greater transparency is expected in the public realm... individuals and pressure groups are incredibly adept at using social media to mobilise public opinion," he said.

"The press is relentless in measuring and magnifying perceived outrage. It is becoming more uncomfortable for all broadcasters, but particularly the BBC, to stand in opposition to the public mood."

Spot on sir!

They're hoisted with their own petard!

hardylane · 05-11-2009, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servalan

Big Brother - risky?

As if. BB is stage-managed to high heaven. It pushes none of the boundaries C4 was supposed to extend and has nothing to say. It pretends to be 'shocking' but is actually as corporate, bland and as conformist as it gets.

If C4 was so interested in pushing boundaries, how come it didn't even bid for Mad Men, The Shield, Breaking Bad or The Wire? How come it consigned the genuinely ground-breaking US dramas it did buy to the middle of the night? How come they turned down Life On Mars when it was originally pitched to them?

And when Bellamy slags off other channels for returning to old titles, why is he not admitting that C4 wanted to re-make Day Of The Triffids - one of the titles he slags the BBC off for commissioning?

I'm all for ground-breaking, opinion-influencing television. But C4 is just about the last place you'll find it now.

The series you have listed are all on my list of "dullsville" TV... and probably too expensive for C4.

Like I said.. let them get back to makling some stuff without the handcuffs of a prurient, up-itself UK public.

(Or at the very least rediscover their original values... but that's probably lost hope)

mikw · 05-11-2009, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by slow motion

From the DS news item:

Spot on sir!

For goodness sake, watch some TV, Risk taking is something that the commercials have given up on, not much ad revenue there.

Anyway, have you forgotten all the BBC "scandals" and "risks" you have whinged about in the past?

Pizzatheaction · 05-11-2009, 15:24

Has Bellamy looked at the C4 schedules lately?!

Bland, bland, bland.

Looks as though he's adopting the Andrew Duncan approach of scattergun criticism of the BBC, while C4's output carries on deteriorating despite the huge C4 cash reserves.

Servalan · 05-11-2009, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardylane

The series you have listed are all on my list of "dullsville" TV... and probably too expensive for C4.

Like I said.. let them get back to makling some stuff without the handcuffs of a prurient, up-itself UK public.

(Or at the very least rediscover their original values... but that's probably lost hope)

They may not be to your taste but they are exactly the kind of show C4 would have snapped up before it lost its identity - all provocative and ground-breaking series on C4 are either hand-me-downs (True Blood and Generation Kill were first shown on FX) or non-existent.

And if C4 couldn't afford them, please explain why they could afford to pay over the odds for Desperate Housewives?

mikw · 05-11-2009, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servalan

And if C4 couldn't afford them, please explain why they could afford to pay over the odds for Desperate Housewives?

They can afford them alright, have you seen how much the top brass get paid?

slow motion · 05-11-2009, 15:40

Anyone who thinks Channel Four is unadventurous should look at this list

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/tags/comedy

Mr Bellamy is dead right about the BBC becoming less adventurous though. when was the last time the beeb seriously pushed the boundaries?

Tassium · 05-11-2009, 15:52

If book publishing had it's own version of (reactionary) Ofcom then publishing would be blander than a very bland thing too.

A regulator to oversee content is a problem not a solution.

The law of the land is all that should be available to those who object to TV/Radio programmes. Ofcom is the classic example of function creep.

Tassium · 05-11-2009, 15:59

As for the BBC, Channel 4's programming boss Julian Bellamy says "The BBC's conservatism is an 'unintended consequence' of its method of funding"

I disagree. The TV licence has been around for quite a while and it was never the cause of 'conservatism' in programming in the past. The BBC was quite daring in fact.

Perhaps it's down to a reducing popularity of the BBC itself? The 'BBC' is trying to ingratiate itself with certain sections of society by editing itself.

slow motion · 05-11-2009, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassium

I disagree. The TV licence has been around for quite a while and it was never the cause of 'conservatism' in programming in the past. The BBC was quite daring in fact.

But with so many channels doing what it used to have a monopoly on, things have changed.

For instance the BBC used to be great for comedy, I'd be hard psuhed to think of something good now, yet Ch4 has loads of boundary-pushing comedy.

times have changed and the beeb is getting squeezed out, political ciorrectness and self-censorship to please the public is only self-defeating.

Pizzatheaction · 05-11-2009, 16:14

C4 is increasingly sidelining its comedy output. Gone are the all year round Friday comedy nights.

CAMERA OBSCURA · 05-11-2009, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by slow motion

For instance the BBC used to be great for comedy, I'd be hard psuhed to think of something good now, yet Ch4 has loads of boundary-pushing comedy..

And just what, would you say, are the comedy boundaries being pushed in that list exactly?

Pizzatheaction · 05-11-2009, 16:33

I think there's a risk of getting confused between "boundary-pushing" and gimmicks.

Having sitcom characters bursting into a song and dance routine is not "boundary-pushing", it's a gimmick.

Filming sitcom scenes to replicate what a character sees, is not "boundary-pushing", it's a gimmick.

Freeze-framing the background while a character delivers a few lines to camera is not "boundary-pushing", it's a gimmick.

Tassium · 05-11-2009, 18:20

CH4 group started it's descent into badness when Mark Thompson took over, Andy Duncan carried on his good work.

It seems to be about survival at all costs now, regardless of the programming that results.

mad_dude · 05-11-2009, 18:31

Quote:

Anyone who thinks Channel Four is unadventurous should look at this list

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/tags/comedy

Mr Bellamy is dead right about the BBC becoming less adventurous though. when was the last time the beeb seriously pushed the boundaries?

The majority of programmes on there are Imports it is hardly channel 4 pushing the boundaries. It would be like me complaining that im pushing the boundaries of toilet paper design by buying andrex.

Mikeandhersonq · 05-11-2009, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassium

CH4 group started it's descent into badness when Mark Thompson took over, Andy Duncan carried on his good work.

It seems to be about survival at all costs now, regardless of the programming that results.

One of the reason why the license fee should work in principle. I agree with Duncan here that the BBC certainly can't take risks - but isn't it meant to be Channel 4 which takes the risks and the BBC who adopt the winning risks?
I think that Channel 4 should get a guaranteed budget and Channel 4 should try to make up that budget through advertising; but if they don't get enough advertising money it should be made up by the BBC or the government.

Could I question the the decision making by government that the new head of Channel 4 is 65; considerably older than Channel 4's audience - Lord Burns would be excluded from his/her own channel.

Servalan · 05-11-2009, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeandhersonq

One of the reason why the license fee should work in principle. I agree with Duncan here that the BBC certainly can't take risks - but isn't it meant to be Channel 4 which takes the risks and the BBC who adopt the winning risks?
I think that Channel 4 should get a guaranteed budget and Channel 4 should try to make up that budget through advertising; but if they don't get enough advertising money it should be made up by the BBC or the government.

Could I question the the decision making by government that the new head of Channel 4 is 65; considerably older than Channel 4's audience - Lord Burns would be excluded from his/her own channel.

Why should anyone subsidise C4 so it can be adventurous and take risks? That is the remit of the channel and the one it managed to successfully adhere to for many years until it forgot who it was and the schedulers started telling the commissioners what to make.

Just because its management screwed things up doesn't mean the BBC, the government or, frankly, anyone at all should come in and 'rescue' it. That is the job that Andy Duncan should have been doing and has failed at so miserably.

oathy · 05-11-2009, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by phildesign

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcasting/news/a185320/c4s-bellamy-british-tv-is-getting-bland.html

...This from the man who insists on inflicting us with a further two interminable series' of Big Brother.

Sorry thats not right.

C4 allowed Big brother to be castrated overnight..the images of Angela Jain going on world Press and saying sorry was the end.

C4 is just a swamp of 2nd rate home and cookery shows.

BBC3 stole the mantle of E4/C4 in terms of new drama

E4..STILL repeats friends when people can buy the entire set for 40 quid now!!

and they talk about lazy/bland TV.

Agent F · 05-11-2009, 23:49

Channel 4's certainly not what it was.

Wall-to-wall property and makeover shows these days.

Axing Big Brother is certainly a step in the right direction and I daresay that it [Big Brother and the success it brought] was the primary reason for the degradation of Channel 4's primetime schedule.

lnp · 06-11-2009, 00:15

Bit rich of C4 labelling other broadcasters as bland. They ought to take a look closer to home first.

Countdown, Deal or No Deal, Paul O'Grady.Falling in ratings and or flogged to death and all likely to be off air inside a year. Simpsons, repeats of repeats. From 8pm onwards, a token amount of factual programming, a lot treading down the sensationalist route of Sky One. Other than that mostly primetime lifestyle crap. The weekends are heading down exactly the same route of safeness. US imports treated very shabbily indeed.

Big Brother they've choked the death out of due to a policy of letting nothing get in the way of their get out of jail card aka license fee bail out.

To think they wanted license cash for More 4. Look at it now. Obsessed with property and Noel Edmonds.

Channel 4's answer to everything these days seems to be loop round Friends a few more times or launch another timeshift.

If it can't survive on its own it should close IMO.

05-11-2009, 09:32	#1
phildesign Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 35	'C4's Bellamy: British TV is getting bland' http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcasting/news/a185320/c4s-bellamy-british-tv-is-getting-bland.html ...This from the man who insists on inflicting us with a further two interminable series' of Big Brother.

05-11-2009, 14:19	#2
Servalan Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,640	Quite. And giving careers to talent voids such as Justin Lee Collins and Gok Wan. This, along with Andy Duncan's pathetic rant at the BBC yesterday, is just another example of C4 pointing the finger to cover its own ineptitude. Perhaps they should spend a little less time bitching and instead concentrate on commissioning programmes people want to watch - something they have spectacularly failed to do all on their own.

05-11-2009, 14:27	#4
hardylane Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Services: Sky+, Freeview, Virgin XXL Broadband, Sony DVD/PVR, PS2, Xbox, Windows 7 Posts: 854	Try coming up with a decent arguement...Big Brother has supplied the media and the viewing public with a hell of a lot of highly risky material (except of course the last series which for once I didn't watch because it was dull as dishwater) I think he's spot on. This culture of audience power is killing TV... phone-ins, right to replies, PCC complaints... it gives the great uneducated the right to be as irrational as possible, with the least amount of responsibilty for their actions. The recent "scandals" regard Ross, Brand and Boyle made me utterly sick. The complainers exhibited self-righteous, puffed up, twattery of the first degree. I get offended by things every day... ignorant people, officious people, filthy streets, parking charges... the list goes on.... I have NO right NOT to be offended, thankfully, otherwise the world was grind to a halt. Blasphemy laws have been repealed, thankfully, so the god-botherers of a thousand religions now have no legal recourse when we tell them their prophets are figments of their imagination. The same needs to be done for TV... let them offend... let them get back to creating ground-breaking, opinion-influencing television... put Joe Public back in his bloody box.

05-11-2009, 15:24	#9
Pizzatheaction Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Services: DTT Posts: 4,360 Blog Entries: 2	Has Bellamy looked at the C4 schedules lately?! Bland, bland, bland. Looks as though he's adopting the Andrew Duncan approach of scattergun criticism of the BBC, while C4's output carries on deteriorating despite the huge C4 cash reserves.

05-11-2009, 15:40	#12
slow motion Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,233	Anyone who thinks Channel Four is unadventurous should look at this list http://www.channel4.com/programmes/tags/comedy Mr Bellamy is dead right about the BBC becoming less adventurous though. when was the last time the beeb seriously pushed the boundaries?

05-11-2009, 15:52	#13
Tassium Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: It's Grim Services: MK2 Interocitor Posts: 2,233	If book publishing had it's own version of (reactionary) Ofcom then publishing would be blander than a very bland thing too. A regulator to oversee content is a problem not a solution. The law of the land is all that should be available to those who object to TV/Radio programmes. Ofcom is the classic example of function creep.

05-11-2009, 15:59	#14
Tassium Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: It's Grim Services: MK2 Interocitor Posts: 2,233	As for the BBC, Channel 4's programming boss Julian Bellamy says "The BBC's conservatism is an 'unintended consequence' of its method of funding" I disagree. The TV licence has been around for quite a while and it was never the cause of 'conservatism' in programming in the past. The BBC was quite daring in fact. Perhaps it's down to a reducing popularity of the BBC itself? The 'BBC' is trying to ingratiate itself with certain sections of society by editing itself.

05-11-2009, 16:14	#16
Pizzatheaction Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Services: DTT Posts: 4,360 Blog Entries: 2	C4 is increasingly sidelining its comedy output. Gone are the all year round Friday comedy nights.

05-11-2009, 16:33	#18
Pizzatheaction Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Services: DTT Posts: 4,360 Blog Entries: 2	I think there's a risk of getting confused between "boundary-pushing" and gimmicks. Having sitcom characters bursting into a song and dance routine is not "boundary-pushing", it's a gimmick. Filming sitcom scenes to replicate what a character sees, is not "boundary-pushing", it's a gimmick. Freeze-framing the background while a character delivers a few lines to camera is not "boundary-pushing", it's a gimmick.

05-11-2009, 18:20	#19
Tassium Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: It's Grim Services: MK2 Interocitor Posts: 2,233	CH4 group started it's descent into badness when Mark Thompson took over, Andy Duncan carried on his good work. It seems to be about survival at all costs now, regardless of the programming that results.

05-11-2009, 23:49	#24
Agent F Forum Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Twin Peaks ♂ Posts: 20,169 Blog Entries: 18	Channel 4's certainly not what it was. Wall-to-wall property and makeover shows these days. Axing Big Brother is certainly a step in the right direction and I daresay that it [Big Brother and the success it brought] was the primary reason for the degradation of Channel 4's primetime schedule.

06-11-2009, 00:15	#25
lnp Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Services: Satellite - 28E & Astra 19.2E · Freeview Posts: 11,819	Bit rich of C4 labelling other broadcasters as bland. They ought to take a look closer to home first. Countdown, Deal or No Deal, Paul O'Grady.Falling in ratings and or flogged to death and all likely to be off air inside a year. Simpsons, repeats of repeats. From 8pm onwards, a token amount of factual programming, a lot treading down the sensationalist route of Sky One. Other than that mostly primetime lifestyle crap. The weekends are heading down exactly the same route of safeness. US imports treated very shabbily indeed. Big Brother they've choked the death out of due to a policy of letting nothing get in the way of their get out of jail card aka license fee bail out. To think they wanted license cash for More 4. Look at it now. Obsessed with property and Noel Edmonds. Channel 4's answer to everything these days seems to be loop round Friends a few more times or launch another timeshift. If it can't survive on its own it should close IMO.