Waters of Mars - Theory about one part of it... - Doctor Who and Torchwood

SpringheelJack · 06-11-2009, 11:13

I'll spoiler tag this in case I'm right, but having been told that the Doctor will act "out of character" in this episode and in the finale, and having watched the new trailer, I wonder if...

Notice the scene at the end where the rocket explodes and the Doctor is in the blast zone in a space suit.

spoiler:
Now given how he says this is a fixed point in time and what happens must always happen, I think that means the infection stays on Mars and never returns to Earth, and the consequences of the crew's sacrifice have repercussions in world politics (good or bad).

What if it's the Doctor who, to keep time on track, either sabotages the rocket or prevents someone from stopping the launch, resulting in the death of everyone onboard? Or allows them to go to their deaths, only to try and stop it too late. Certainly the shot of the Doctor in the flames implies a haunted man in the wreckage...

stcoop · 06-11-2009, 11:19

One slight problem, there's lots of photos out there from the shooting of the episode that show

spoiler:
the Doctor bringing Lindsay Duncan and two of the other chacracters back to Earth in the TARDIS.

darthbibble · 06-11-2009, 11:28

spoiler:
I'm wondering the Doctor changes a fixed event which has ramifications which involve the return of the Time Lords (are at least a few of them) in the finale

SpringheelJack · 06-11-2009, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by stcoop

One slight problem, there's lots of photos out there from the shooting of the episode that show

spoiler:
the Doctor bringing Lindsay Duncan and two of the other chacracters back to Earth in the TARDIS.

Interesting - although it doesn't also mean:

spoiler:

That the Doctor destroys the rocket deliberately to prevent the crew from escaping, nor some of the crew who don't come back aren't killed on the rocket when it explodes...

SpringheelJack · 06-11-2009, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthbibble

spoiler:
I'm wondering the Doctor changes a fixed event which has ramifications which involve the return of the Time Lords (are at least a few of them) in the finale

Just had the same thought in the shower!

davrosdodebird · 06-11-2009, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthbibble

spoiler:
I'm wondering the Doctor changes a fixed event which has ramifications which involve the return of the Time Lords (are at least a few of them) in the finale

Of course he does! the new trailer proves it!

the fixed event being

spoiler:
Adelaide's death, which he prevents by bringing her back to earth!

darthbibble · 06-11-2009, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by davrosdodebird

Of course he does! the new trailer proves it!

the fixed event being

spoiler:
Adelaide's death, which he prevents by bringing her back to earth!

spoiler:
I know he changes it in WoM, I'm just wondering if it has implications for the Return of The Time Lords in the finale

Big Steve · 06-11-2009, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthbibble

spoiler:
I know he changes it in WoM, I'm just wondering if it has implications for the Return of The Time Lords in the finale

spoiler:
I would have thought if he had changed a fix point in time then the reapers which appeared in Father's Day would have shown up

darthbibble · 06-11-2009, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Steve

spoiler:
I would have thought if he had changed a fix point in time then the reapers which appeared in Father's Day would have shown up

spoiler:
In Father's Day in was implied that if the Time Lords where around then the Reapers wouldn't be needed. If the Doctor changes something which brings back the Time Lords....

However a few things have been changed by the Doctor in the series where the Reapers haven't turned up - These things being no more worse than Pete not getting killed in FD

Big Steve · 06-11-2009, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthbibble

spoiler:
In Father's Day in was implied that if the Time Lords where around then the Reapers wouldn't be needed. If the Doctor changes something which brings back the Time Lords....

However a few things have been changed by the Doctor in the series where the Reapers haven't turned up - These things being no more worse than Pete not getting killed in FD

I suppose that is true, I just thought

Quote:

The Reapers would have been a good way to bring in danger and then have the time lords arrive to save the day so to speak

Corwin · 06-11-2009, 15:00

The Reapers only appeared in FD because it was a weak point in Time.

The reason it was a weak point in Time was because the Doctor and Rose were there twice.

If the first Rose had stopped her Father getting killed then while she would have changed time it would not have been enough to allow the Reapers in. It was only because it was the 2nd Rose (who should not have been there) who did it that the Reapers appeared.

dgembadgemba · 06-11-2009, 15:09

*sigh*

shove

davrosdodebird · 06-11-2009, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgembadgemba

*sigh*

shove

Who Ya Shovin?!

davrosdodebird · 12-11-2009, 09:59

Right. WoM is almost upon us. any thoughts?

*SHOVE*

heh, now im the one doing the shoving, Dgem!

Listentome · 12-11-2009, 11:32

Wow a thread full of spoiler tags and no spoilers.

darthbibble · 12-11-2009, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Listentome

Wow a thread full of spoiler tags and no spoilers.

Eh? There are at least a couple of references to

spoiler:
The return of the time lords in the finale

Alex Oughton · 12-11-2009, 11:45

Bringing them back to Earth wouldn't necessarily change events. Here's a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey possibility:

An example "orginal" sequence of events

1. Members of Mars expedition die, bad stuff therefore doesn't get to Earth
2. Earth loses contact with Mars. People assumed dead.
3. Later investigation. Base found destroyed. People dead. Yep.

An example of changing the events, without changing causality:

1. Doctor kills/stops bad stuff. Bad stuff doesn't get to Earth. Base still blows up. Doctor removes people from the base before they die, depositing them somewhere else in time. Probably the past. 20th century, maybe. They live their lives there, under assumed names.
2. Earth loses contact with Mars. People assumed dead.
3. Later investigation. Base found destroyed. People dead. Yep.

Listentome · 12-11-2009, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthbibble

Eh? There are at least a couple of references to

spoiler:
The return of the time lords in the finale

Oh please it was a joke referring to theories becoming spoilers.

darthbibble · 12-11-2009, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Listentome

Oh please it was a joke referring to theories becoming spoilers.

Fair enough. You need to work on your comedy act though

Listentome · 12-11-2009, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthbibble

Fair enough. You need to work on your comedy act though

My mother-in-law jokes go down a storm.

06-11-2009, 11:13	#1
SpringheelJack Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sauf Lan'den Posts: 215	Waters of Mars - Theory about one part of it... I'll spoiler tag this in case I'm right, but having been told that the Doctor will act "out of character" in this episode and in the finale, and having watched the new trailer, I wonder if... Notice the scene at the end where the rocket explodes and the Doctor is in the blast zone in a space suit. spoiler: Now given how he says this is a fixed point in time and what happens must always happen, I think that means the infection stays on Mars and never returns to Earth, and the consequences of the crew's sacrifice have repercussions in world politics (good or bad). What if it's the Doctor who, to keep time on track, either sabotages the rocket or prevents someone from stopping the launch, resulting in the death of everyone onboard? Or allows them to go to their deaths, only to try and stop it too late. Certainly the shot of the Doctor in the flames implies a haunted man in the wreckage...

06-11-2009, 11:19	#2
stcoop Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,508	One slight problem, there's lots of photos out there from the shooting of the episode that show spoiler: the Doctor bringing Lindsay Duncan and two of the other chacracters back to Earth in the TARDIS.

06-11-2009, 11:28	#3
darthbibble Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,797	spoiler: I'm wondering the Doctor changes a fixed event which has ramifications which involve the return of the Time Lords (are at least a few of them) in the finale

06-11-2009, 15:00	#11
Corwin Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,958	The Reapers only appeared in FD because it was a weak point in Time. The reason it was a weak point in Time was because the Doctor and Rose were there twice. If the first Rose had stopped her Father getting killed then while she would have changed time it would not have been enough to allow the Reapers in. It was only because it was the 2nd Rose (who should not have been there) who did it that the Reapers appeared.

06-11-2009, 15:09	#12
dgembadgemba Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Professional Voyeur Posts: 7,358	sigh shove

12-11-2009, 09:59	#14
davrosdodebird Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 623	Right. WoM is almost upon us. any thoughts? SHOVE heh, now im the one doing the shoving, Dgem!

12-11-2009, 11:32	#15
Listentome Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,298	Wow a thread full of spoiler tags and no spoilers.

12-11-2009, 11:45	#17
Alex Oughton Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: West London, CryP TX Services: Sky+ HD, Virgin Broadband (50mb), Mac, Windows, Linux, Meerkat Posts: 6,423	Bringing them back to Earth wouldn't necessarily change events. Here's a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey possibility: An example "orginal" sequence of events 1. Members of Mars expedition die, bad stuff therefore doesn't get to Earth 2. Earth loses contact with Mars. People assumed dead. 3. Later investigation. Base found destroyed. People dead. Yep. An example of changing the events, without changing causality: 1. Doctor kills/stops bad stuff. Bad stuff doesn't get to Earth. Base still blows up. Doctor removes people from the base before they die, depositing them somewhere else in time. Probably the past. 20th century, maybe. They live their lives there, under assumed names. 2. Earth loses contact with Mars. People assumed dead. 3. Later investigation. Base found destroyed. People dead. Yep.