[UglyDuckling40]

You have the odd housemate who has a media career following their exit (e.g. Jade and Alison from BB3).

But you also have a sizeable number of ex-housemates who cannot stop chasing fame (e.g. Nikki, Imogen and Aisleyne from BB7).

But you also have a number who return to their former lifes and become successful. For example, you have Grace from BB7 who has set up her own stage school. From the same year, you have Sezer who is now a millionaire with two businesses growing quickly.

The question is, how do we measure how successful an ex-housemate has become after leaving the most famous house in the land?

[Barracute]

There is no single measure of success, each person has there own opinion on what categorises success. Some may say fame/fortune (Jade) or some would say personal happiness (Mikey/Grace) matters more.

But imo the greatest measure of success is not what you have done for yourself but what you have done for others with that success.....

[wonkeydonkey]

I like Barracute's answer. But really you are asking an unanswerable question. Even someone who loves a good top 10 like me can hardly compile a top 10 that includes fame, income, personal happiness and benefits for other people. Let me point a wildly shaky finger and nominate Cameron. He has achieved the sort of long-lasting, local media career that looks fun without a lot of stress. and he always sounds like a contented man. And he did use his winnings (or part of) to buy a piano for his church.

[UglyDuckling40]

I can see your point WD, but I suppose the point I am trying to make is this.

The majority of the housemates have done BB for one reason: to find fame and fortune. They want to be the next Jade Goody who obtains fame and fortune without possessing any real talent.

When they get outside the house, the ex-housemate gets that fame but it doesn't last long. At this point, they have two choices: They can go back to their normal lives or they can continue chasing fame.

The ones who continue chasing fame, in the main, do so by going topless for some mens magazine or by sleeping around with Z-list celebritys because they have not got the talent to do anything else (Alison from BB3 is among the few exceptions).

Meanwhile, the others who stop chasing fame seem happier and quite a few have become successful in their business professions.

Basically, I am asking the question that when you leave the BB House will you do anything to stay in the public spotlight or will you go back to your normal life?

[Bibbles]

If I had time I could mock mathematise it but it would not really show anything.It has to be a combination of the factors mentioned-whether "happiness" comes into it is moot-as one can be successful without happiness and vice versa so it doesn't really come into it.Although if someone appears unhappy BECAUSE of BB then some account must surely be taken.Also success arising from the BB experience itself is mainly what we can evaluate-rather then success arising from general life and work which might have occurred anyway.ie you have to really have used the show appearance.

I remain convinced that one can bracket Jade Kate Alison and Brian together some way ahead of others but I know Craig and Anna from BB1 havesome positives above the remainder.So my top 6 are all from the first 3 BB's-coincidence or just a measure of how more difficult it is now or the TYPE of people being selected in BB5 and onwards.

[Radical Joe]

Originally Posted by wonkeydonkey

I like Barracute's answer.

TBH, I can't understand it...

Originally Posted by Barracute

But imo the greatest measure of success is not what you have done for yourself but what you have done for others with that success.....

Barracute says the greatest measure of success is what you have done for others with that success.

What success? To my mind, it would make more sense if the emboldened part was omitted.

[John Dough]

If you read Barracute's profile it will make more sense regardless of the fact that there's little evidence of it.....

[Barracute]

Originally Posted by Radical Joe

TBH, I can't understand it...



Barracute says the greatest measure of success is what you have done for others with that success.

What success? To my mind, it would make more sense if the emboldened part was omitted.

Well, i think what sticks out for me, is using the success gained from appearing in BB, to embark on a campaign to raise awareness of anorexia, publishing a book to both give guidance and inspiration, and to raise funds rather than to pocket a few bucks from your fans, towards the opening of a drop-in centre to provide help and information for suffers is my idea of using ones success to help others.

Nikki's drop in centre is opening in January by the way.

[UglyDuckling40]

I think Barracute is trying to say that Nikki has been successful and that she has used that success to highlight her problems with anorexia and, hopefully, she has helped people with similar problems by giving eating disorders more exposure.

[rossyrahrah]

Originally Posted by UglyDuckling40

I think Barracute is trying to say that Nikki has been successful and that she has used that success to highlight her problems with anorexia and, hopefully, she has helped people with similar problems by giving eating disorders more exposure.

In which case, immaterial of the fact that I utterly and completely loathed her on BB, I say good for her.

[Radical Joe]

Originally Posted by UglyDuckling40

I think Barracute is trying to say that Nikki has been successful and that she has used that success to highlight her problems with anorexia and, hopefully, she has helped people with similar problems by giving eating disorders more exposure.

I guessed that's what Barracute was getting at, although for Barracute to say that she measures success in one way, then to say that a HM can use their success to achieve Barracutes definition of success dosen't make sense IMO. If Barracute measures success in 'alturistic' acts, not exposure, then, by Barracute's own definition, someone who's had plenty of exposure isn't necessarily a success in the first instance.


In any case, to answer the question, I think we have to go beyond what we would consider success when discussng how much success the HM's have had. surely the ultimate criteria is, how much success have the HM's had by their own definition? I can't imagine many HM's, when entering the house, thought "well, if I can help young kids overcome Anorexia/bring attention to the plight of the third world etc, then I'll have succeeded." Sure, there may be a handful who thought along these lines (Carole BB8, for one), but the vast majority, IMO, consider success in terms of photoshoots, TV work and column inches.

As for my answer, I really don't know, because I don't read the kind of mags/watch the kind of TV they might appear in.

[Barracute]

Originally Posted by Radical Joe

I guessed that's what Barracute was getting at, although for mBarracute to say that she measures success in one way, then to say that a HM can use their success to achieve Barracutes definition of success dosen't make sense IMO.

In any case, to answer the question, I think we have to go beyond what we would consider success when discussng how much success the HM's have had. surely the ultimate criteria is, how much success have the HM's had by their own definition? I can't imagine many HM's, when entering the house, thought "well, if I can help young kids overcome Anorexia/bring attention to the plight of the third world etc, then I'll have succeeded." Sure, there may be a handful who thought along these lines (Carole BB8, for one), but the vast majority, IMO, consider success in terms of photoshoots, TV work and column inches.

I dont understand why you dont understand??

Do you not think helping anorexia suffers is a good thing?

Thats always been Nikki's aim, some people may not want Nikki to do it, but its not about them, its about the people who need the help and who will benefit from Nikki's success.

As i said different people have different ideas about how to measure success, nothing wrong with measuring in terms of being the most famous or profitable, but IMO nothing wrong with helping others either. I haven't contradicted myself at all

[Radical Joe]

Originally Posted by Barracute

I dont understand why you dont understand??

Do you not think helping anorexia suffers is a good thing?

Thats always been Nikki's aim, some people may not want Nikki to do it, but its not about them, its about the people who need the help and who will benefit from Nikki's success.

As i said different people have different ideas about how to measure success, nothing wrong with measuring in terms of being the most famous or profitable, but IMO nothing wrong with helping others either. I haven't contradicted myself at all

I don't believe for one second that Nikki's aim, when entering the house, was to warn others about the dangers of Anorexia, rather, that she was hoping to be famous - that was her definition of success IMO. Furthermore, being cynical, I find it hard to believe that, even now (given what I've seen of her character), she isn't playing the 'Anorexic' card to futher her own career.

Didn't she call someone (Marcus I think) 'fat' during BB10? That's not what people who are concerned with Anorexia say.

[Barracute]

Originally Posted by Radical Joe

I don't believe for one second that Nikki's aim, when entering the house was to warn others about the dangers of Anorexia, rather, that she was hoping to be famous - that was her definition of success IMO. Furthermore, being cynical, I find it hard to believe that, even now (given what I've seen of her character), she isn't playing the 'Anorexic' card to futher her own career.

You keep misunderstanding, i am talking about what Nikki has chosen to do with her success NOW, she is putting her time and money raised to the benefit of people who are going through what she did. Nikki as long talked about her dream to open a drop-in centre - some people of course said it was just a PR stunt and would never happen, (the same people who said she'd never get a book published!!) but she has proved them ALL wrong.

I have seen for myself with my own eyes the difference Nikki has made to the lives of Anorexia Suffers, and no thats not based on what i have read but what i saw the last time i met Nikki and a very ill girl who was there at the time who has taken inspiration from Nikki and who Nikki has befriended, thats the kind of person that Nikki has helped and whose lives she has touched - what i saw that night is true success - not the success of making money, mag covers or tv shows...

But the success of making someones life better...
(there is much more to the above story of Nikki and that girl, but you would have had to have been there to understand.....)

[Radical Joe]

You keep misunderstanding, i am talking about what Nikki has chosen to do with her success NOW

Then you shouldn't have said...

Originally Posted by Barracute

Thats always been Nikki's aim...

You also said...

some people of course said it was just a PR stunt and would never happen, (the same people who said she'd never get a book published!!) but she has proved them ALL wrong.

I've personally never said she wouldn't get a book deal, on the contrary, there's a sucker born every minute - although I don't see how her getting a book deal proves that people were wrong to accuse it of being a PR stunt.

I have seen for myself with my own eyes the difference Nikki has made to the lives of Anorexia Suffers, and no thats not based on what i have read but what i saw the last time i met Nikki and a very ill girl who was there at the time who has taken inspiration from Nikki and who Nikki has befriended, thats the kind of person that Nikki has helped and whose lives she has touched - what i saw that night is true success - not the success of making money, mag covers or tv shows...

I sympathise with sufferers of Anorexia, and I accept that some may have benefited from meeting with, or reading Nikki's book - but, again, it dosen't follow that her primary motivation in doing these things is to help sufferers, any more than Diana's visits to Aids victims and the like was motivated more by a genuine concern rather than an opportunity to portray herself in a positive light and get one over on her ex-husband.


As a fan, you're obviously more inclined to give Nikki the benefit of the doubt in anything she says or does but, looking at it from a more objective POV, it does seem like a cynical exercise, designed to increase her profile. Everything I've seen of her character suggests to me someone who craves the limelight, rather than someone with an overriding concern for the welfare of others.

And, as someone who craves the limelight, that's how, IMO, her success should be judged (what she's achieved by her own standards), not some arbitary standard imposed by others who invariably put their own slant on what 'success' is to suit their own ends - as, I would argue, you have done with Nikki.

[Barracute]

If you think a BB hm opening a drop-in centre for Anorexia suffers isnt the best use of her success - then please tell me what you would have preferred her to do?

[Radical Joe]

Originally Posted by Barracute

If you think a BB hm opening a drop-in centre for Anorexia suffers isnt the best use of her success - then please tell me what you would have preferred her to do?

I'm not sure if you're deliberatly missing the point, but I'll say it again. Regardless of how you might see it (as a success, no doubt), I'm arguing that we should judge a HM's success on how we believe they would define success not how you or me might define it.

And, yet again, you've contradicted yourself. In your first (and subsequent posts) you've argued that success should be measured in what people (the HM's) do for others, and not through exposure etc. Fine, I've no problem with that. Yet, you then say, in the same sentence, that she is using her success to help others. WHAT SUCCESS??? You've already said that you don't consider exposure to be a measure of success. Thus, saying that she is using her success (through exposure) to achieve what you consider to be success is inherently contradictory.

[wonkeydonkey]

I suppose the least successful ex-housemates might be those with the biggest gap between their hopes and their achievements. For a long time I found Vanessa Layton-Mackintosh a rather forlorn figure. (I understand that she is settled in a career now, phew). Every so often the paparazzi sites would feature her in extreme states of dishevellment and undress, trying frantically to get some media attention. As far as I can see, these photographs were never selected for publication, so she did all those breastage shots for nothing really.

Charley was another one who flickered feebly and went out. We were told that she was not interested in glamour work because she wanted a 'proper' tv career. She was last seen slumped drunkenly in a car with naked breasts, still perhaps waiting for the tv career.

Billi from the same series seems to be another one whose ambitions far outweighed his talents.

[Barracute]

Originally Posted by Radical Joe

I'm not sure if you're deliberatly missing the point, but I'll say it again. Regardless of how you might see it (as a success, no doubt), I'm arguing that we should judge a HM's success on how we believe they would define success not how you or me might define it.

And, yet again, you've contradicted yourself. In your first (and subsequent posts) you've argued that success should be measured in what people (the HM's) do for others, and not through exposure etc. Fine, I've no problem with that. Yet, you then say, in the same sentence, that she is using her success to help others. WHAT SUCCESS??? You've already said that you don't consider exposure to be a measure of success. Thus, saying that she is using her success (through exposure) to achieve what you consider to be success is inherently contradictory.

I think we are both talking about different things, you are talking about what you think a hm thinks is a definition of success whereas i am talking about what we should regard as a definition of success.

[UglyDuckling40]

Originally Posted by wonkeydonkey

I suppose the least successful ex-housemates might be those with the biggest gap between their hopes and their achievements. For a long time I found Vanessa Layton-Mackintosh a rather forlorn figure. (I understand that she is settled in a career now, phew). Every so often the paparazzi sites would feature her in extreme states of dishevellment and undress, trying frantically to get some media attention. As far as I can see, these photographs were never selected for publication, so she did all those breastage shots for nothing really.

Charley was another one who flickered feebly and went out. We were told that she was not interested in glamour work because she wanted a 'proper' tv career. She was last seen slumped drunkenly in a car with naked breasts, still perhaps waiting for the tv career.

Billi from the same series seems to be another one whose ambitions far outweighed his talents.

Vanessa is now a qualified solicitor. You are right about her though, you often saw her leaving nightclubs trying to show off cleavage. But she has seemed to change.

Charley is going down the glamour girl route. She recently had a boob job and has decided that they are there to be exposed.

Billi has been pathetic. The worst case being when trying to sell his car recently, according to him, one of the main selling points is that had sex with Katie Price's sister on the back seat.

I suspect that it won't be long before Sophie gets her boobs out for the paps outside nightclubs. She seems so predicatable.

[wonkeydonkey]

Originally Posted by UglyDuckling40

Billi has been pathetic. The worst case being when trying to sell his car recently, according to him, one of the main selling points is that he had sex with Katie Price's sister on the back seat.

.

Did it come with a free bottle of upholstry shampoo?

[UglyDuckling40]

Originally Posted by wonkeydonkey

Did it come with a free bottle of upholstry shampoo?

No, the stains are apparently the main selling points of the vehicle.

[daryl_spicer]

Sree is now Marcus's shoe shine boy

[poochapanta]

Originally Posted by UglyDuckling40

Billi has been pathetic. The worst case being when trying to sell his car recently, according to him, one of the main selling points is that had sex with Katie Price's sister on the back seat.

Is occassional sex with Katie Price's sister included in the purchase of the car?

[Omah]

Originally Posted by UglyDuckling40

Vanessa is now a qualified solicitor. You are right about her though, you often saw her leaving nightclubs trying to show off cleavage. But she has seemed to change.

I can't believe it's the same girl who was a totally useless BB housemate :

Greenwich Student Wins Prestigious Law Award

Each year, mentors involved across the National Mentoring Consortium’s (NMC) mentoring schemes nationally are invited to nominate their mentee for the Law Student of the Year Award if they are studying law and working towards finding employment in the field.

For the second year running, the coveted award was presented to a University of Greenwich student on the NMC Ethnic Minority Undergraduate Scheme (EMUS). Vanessa Layton-McIntosh, a second year LLB Law student was nominated by her mentor from HM Revenue & Customs. She was commended for the range of legal experience that she has gained in the UK and overseas, within areas such as assistance with legal aid, legal secretarial work and a placement with the Crown Prosecution Service. In addition to high achievement with her academic study, Vanessa also took on the role of Residents Assistant to students at the University of Greenwich- a significant additional responsibility involving the welfare of fellow students. Her mentor’s nomination included the following statement of support:

“Whilst other students may have been enjoying long summer breaks, Vanessa sought to get a placement in the world renowned Harvard University, take a summer course, gain a placement in a major UK legal corporation, enhance her prospects through the NMC scheme achieving a keen career focus and gaining a placement with the Crown Prosecution Service.”

http://www.gre.ac.uk/student_informa...2009/law-award