The Death of Gardeners' World - TV Programmes

ftv · 09-11-2009, 08:00

Interesting piece in the Express today about what they see as the demise of the BBC's Gardeners' World programme, been going downhill since Titchmarsh left apparently (but he may be coming back). They claim it has switched its target audience from 50-plus to young people living in cities (who by definition don't do much gardening apart from water their window boxes). Is this another example of ageism at the BBC

www.express.co.uk

Aedin · 09-11-2009, 10:36

Agree 100%. Since Monty Don had to retire, its never been the same. The new bloke seems perfectly inoffensive but has zero personality. They should have made Carol Klein the new main presenter - but I suppose she wasn't young enough!

The previous mix of head gardener with gravitas supplemented by others with specialist interests worked. The new crowd are nonentities and I gave up watching it about a year ago. Shame, because it used to a great programme.

sharw · 09-11-2009, 11:21

Since it moved from 30 mins. to an hour it has felt like a 30 min. programme stretched out. I only watch it on iPlayer so that I can skip over those tediously slow filler bits.

HHGTTG · 09-11-2009, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharw

Since it moved from 30 mins. to an hour it has felt like a 30 min. programme stretched out. I only watch it on iPlayer so that I can skip over those tediously slow filler bits.

I gave up on it after Geoff Hamilton died. Couldn't stand Monty Don doing anything on TV (nothing against him personally).
Anyway there is only so much you need to know about gardening without rehashin the same old stuff every year.

Camino · 09-11-2009, 11:39

I really liked Monty he was so calming and interesting but Toby the new presenter is so dull im afraid and Carol only features in small clips she needs a bigger role, i wouldnt even mind Titchmarsh coming back. It has seriously gone down hill and the new garden is not terribly attractive.

Mariaella · 09-11-2009, 11:51

It mightn't be altogether the new presenter's fault. Gardening has kind of gone out of fashion in recent years. Remember the heyday of Ground Force and numerous other garden makeover shows with Diarmuid Gavin and other celebrity gardeners? It seemed that everyone had decking and water features and spent all their leisure time down at the garden centre.

Gardeners World is the only gardening show left. It existed before the others and, hopefully, will survive for many more years to come.

jabegy · 09-11-2009, 12:01

I'm just hoping and praying that the god Alan comes back. It's just not been the same since he left.

ftv · 09-11-2009, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariaella

It mightn't be altogether the new presenter's fault. Gardening has kind of gone out of fashion in recent years. Remember the heyday of Ground Force and numerous other garden makeover shows with Diarmuid Gavin and other celebrity gardeners? It seemed that everyone had decking and water features and spent all their leisure time down at the garden centre.

Gardeners World is the only gardening show left. It existed before the others and, hopefully, will survive for many more years to come.

You wouldn't think it had gone out of fashion if you went to our local garden centre any afternoon

gladysbach · 09-11-2009, 12:18

My goodness - what a load of tosh about Gardeners World.

Things have to move on and the current presenters are all experienced gardeners and know what they are talking about. OK, so it is not all flash bang wallop, but if you are interested in gardening, the substance is there. And no, not Alan again -we've had years and years of him - rather tiring!

Aedin · 09-11-2009, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by gladysbach

My goodness - what a load of tosh about Gardeners World.

Things have to move on and the current presenters are all experienced gardeners and know what they are talking about. OK, so it is not all flash bang wallop, but if you are interested in gardening, the substance is there. And no, not Alan again -we've had years and years of him - rather tiring!

No-one is looking for 'flash bang wallop' but a telly programme has to connect with people and if its core audience is deserting it, then something isn't working. (Otherwise, just direct people to a textbook!). And its hardly as if gardening is no longer popular - think of the rise in allotments and grow-your-own in the last year.

It might be 'tosh' to you, but there are quite a few diehard GW fans out there (been watching for over 20 years myself) who really think the programme isn't what it used to be. As someone else has pointed out the hourly format doesn't help, but a significant part of the problem is that the presenting team isn't connecting with the core audience.

Programmes can renew presenters and participants and still keep the core audience (even gardening programmes!) I remember the fuss when Monty Don took over from Titchmarsh, but the core audience took to him immediately. The kerfuffle when the whole R4 'Gardener's Question Time' team changed didn't stop its core, knowledgeable audience listening.

There's no need to bring Titchmarsh back - but there is a need to acknowledge that the new format and presenters aren't 'cutting it'.

mossy2103 · 09-11-2009, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariaella

It mightn't be altogether the new presenter's fault. Gardening has kind of gone out of fashion in recent years. Remember the heyday of Ground Force and numerous other garden makeover shows with Diarmuid Gavin and other celebrity gardeners? It seemed that everyone had decking and water features and spent all their leisure time down at the garden centre.

Gardeners World is the only gardening show left. It existed before the others and, hopefully, will survive for many more years to come.

You are really referring to the craze of "designing" your garden as an extension to rooms of the house, rather than what is true gardening (cultivating & improving the soil, growing plants, flowers fruit & veg). It is this sort of gardening that is now coming back into fashion as more people see the benefit of growing their own fruit & veg, and have plants that attract wildlife. And this is what GW should get back to (just as Monty Don was doing). Sadly, Toby et al seem to be the wrong team to do this (despite a feeling when I first saw him that his money-saving ideas would make him a Geoff Hamilton type of "getting hands really dirty" gardener), and the programme needs to get back to its basics again. I gave up with it early-summer, and the wife gave up a few months later.

scotch · 09-11-2009, 13:47

I've given up with the new show, hate it.

Love Carole Kelin though

RegCox · 09-11-2009, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotch

Love Carole Kelin though

She's like nails down a blackboard to me I'm afraid

Camino · 09-11-2009, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariaella

It mightn't be altogether the new presenter's fault. Gardening has kind of gone out of fashion in recent years.

Gardening is more popular than ever actually

Arthur Pringle · 09-11-2009, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aedin

. The kerfuffle when the whole R4 'Gardener's Question Time' team changed didn't stop its core, knowledgeable audience listening.

.

I thought it improved massively, I couldn't stand Stefan Buczacki.

As for Gardener's World, I still miss Geoff Hamilton

quisling · 09-11-2009, 15:46

The last phase of 'fashion gardening' was all to do with the property boom and tied in with programmes like Changing Rooms.
The current gardening trend is more about growing your own fruit and veg for economic and health reasons, and/or seeing your garden as your very own little piece of nature rather than a fashion statement.
I thought Monty Don tapped into the second wave perfectly, but the programme does seem to have lost it's way a little bit and doesn't seem to know who it's target audience is.
It's all gone a little bit Woolworths in that it's trying to appeal to everyone and ends up annoying a lot of potential viewers by appearing lightweight with it's ever shorter sections and generally too much going on to be able to cover anything in depth.
Perhaps if (as with so many programmes) the BBC stopped fretting quite so much about ratings and concentrated on producing a serious gardening programme for serious gardeners, it might surprise itself by finding it's got a quite a substantial potential audience after all.

mossy2103 · 09-11-2009, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by quisling

Perhaps if (as with so many programmes) the BBC stopped fretting quite so much about ratings and concentrated on producing a serious gardening programme for serious gardeners, it might surprise itself by finding it's got a quite a substantial potential audience after all.

It's got little to do with ratings, you have provided the real reason - it's lost its focus, it does not know what its target audience is now, and because of that it's trying to appeal to too many people.

Yes, it just needs to get back to basics, concentrate on the essentials of growing (just as Monty Don did, and as Geoff H excelled).

m06een00 · 09-11-2009, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Pringle

I thought it improved massively, I couldn't stand Stefan Buczacki.

Yes, whatever happened to him? (Never trusted anyone who wears a dickie-bow) Geoff Hamilton was the governor of TV gardening for me and many others, I suspect. Monty Don did a great replacement job (much better than Titchmarsh), and was very personable too, but somehow, I don't quite know what's wrong with this current team. They just don't seem to cut it. I think the contrived mateiness may have something to do with it as I find it grates somewhat.

Loz_Fraggle · 09-11-2009, 18:02

I think they're trying to make the new presenters very Top Gear-esque, you know the chumminess of the presenters, it works with Top Gear but doesn't seem to here. I don't like gardening but have to put up with it being on because my mum likes it. It seems they are trying to appeal to younger viewers, yet it seems they're going to alienate other viewers. I can't stand that Alys Fowler, 'thrifty gardener' my arse.

hoggies · 09-11-2009, 18:08

I never thought the time would come when I didn't settle down on a Friday evening to enjoy GW but even I have given up on this series.

I find Toby guilty of "dumbing down" and dragging the rest of the team down with him. He doesn't look comfortable in front of the camera and just can't communicate his enthusiasm in the same way AT used to.

As for the annual Gardener of the Year competition, what a disappointment. I guessed which garden would win - it was wonderful but obviously money was no object there. I think even I could create a fantastic garden with unlimited means (and probably an assistant gardener or two!). The body language of the other finalists was very telling!

The garden the GW team has created from a couple of rugby pitches has just not cut it (IMHO), and it would be extremely interesting to know how much money has been spent on it.

I need inspiration and am just not getting it so I really hope someone in charge of BBC gardening sits up and pays attention to comments like these.

Simon Jackson · 09-11-2009, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftv

Interesting piece in the Express today about what they see as the demise of the BBC's Gardeners' World programme, been going downhill since Titchmarsh left apparently (but he may be coming back). They claim it has switched its target audience from 50-plus to young people living in cities (who by definition don't do much gardening apart from water their window boxes). Is this another example of ageism at the BBC

www.express.co.uk

Don't really understand the ''living in cities'' bit. Seems to prove they think they watch it for the presetner and not for the gardening.

soapfan_1973 · 09-11-2009, 23:25

For me GW will always be Geoff Hamilton although I do vaguely recall episodes with the brilliant Percy Thrower , better known for my generation as the Blue Peter gardener.

Coming from Birmingham, Mr A.T. will always be remembered to me as the Pebble Mill gardener (sadly demolished a few years ago and now an empty building lot

)

Birdcage · 09-11-2009, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aedin

Agree 100%. Since Monty Don had to retire, its never been the same. The new bloke seems perfectly inoffensive but has zero personality. They should have made Carol Klein the new main presenter - but I suppose she wasn't young enough!

The previous mix of head gardener with gravitas supplemented by others with specialist interests worked. The new crowd are nonentities and I gave up watching it about a year ago. Shame, because it used to a great programme.

Hey dya mind me asking, did Monty Don retire due to ill health? I remember hearing about him suffering from depression.

quisling · 09-11-2009, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz_Fraggle

It seems they are trying to appeal to younger viewers, yet it seems they're going to alienate other viewers.

Couldn't agree more.
But I don't understand why!
If you're interested in gardening, you'll watch a decent gardening programme regardless of your age.

It's so patronising that programme makers appear to think that anyone under 35 has the attention span of a goldfish and an IQ in single figures.
I'm sure the sort of 'young people' who take an interest in gardening (or any particular subject) are quite capable of watching a proper, grown up programme!

JellyKate · 10-11-2009, 00:23

I used to watch GW regularly but I've hardly watched this series at all. I'm afraid Toby is very dull compared to other presenters. And that Alyse or whatever her name is, is terribly irritating. Can't stand her. The only bits that are watchable are the bits with Joe or Carol.

Wish they'd given Chris Beardshaw the job, and not just because he's very easy on the eye...

The new garden isn't interesting at all and doesn't bear much relation to a real garden. I miss Berryfields.

And it irritates me when Toby says things like "I've planted up this lovely container and it only cost £50" - excuse me? £50 for one container??? He and Alyse live in another world from us ordinary gardeners, I fear.

09-11-2009, 08:00	#1
ftv Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,757	The Death of Gardeners' World Interesting piece in the Express today about what they see as the demise of the BBC's Gardeners' World programme, been going downhill since Titchmarsh left apparently (but he may be coming back). They claim it has switched its target audience from 50-plus to young people living in cities (who by definition don't do much gardening apart from water their window boxes). Is this another example of ageism at the BBC www.express.co.uk

09-11-2009, 12:18	#9
gladysbach Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4	gardeners world My goodness - what a load of tosh about Gardeners World. Things have to move on and the current presenters are all experienced gardeners and know what they are talking about. OK, so it is not all flash bang wallop, but if you are interested in gardening, the substance is there. And no, not Alan again -we've had years and years of him - rather tiring!

09-11-2009, 18:08	#20
hoggies Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW France Posts: 21	Empty Friday evenings! I never thought the time would come when I didn't settle down on a Friday evening to enjoy GW but even I have given up on this series. I find Toby guilty of "dumbing down" and dragging the rest of the team down with him. He doesn't look comfortable in front of the camera and just can't communicate his enthusiasm in the same way AT used to. As for the annual Gardener of the Year competition, what a disappointment. I guessed which garden would win - it was wonderful but obviously money was no object there. I think even I could create a fantastic garden with unlimited means (and probably an assistant gardener or two!). The body language of the other finalists was very telling! The garden the GW team has created from a couple of rugby pitches has just not cut it (IMHO), and it would be extremely interesting to know how much money has been spent on it. I need inspiration and am just not getting it so I really hope someone in charge of BBC gardening sits up and pays attention to comments like these.

09-11-2009, 10:36	#2
Aedin Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 32	Agree 100%. Since Monty Don had to retire, its never been the same. The new bloke seems perfectly inoffensive but has zero personality. They should have made Carol Klein the new main presenter - but I suppose she wasn't young enough! The previous mix of head gardener with gravitas supplemented by others with specialist interests worked. The new crowd are nonentities and I gave up watching it about a year ago. Shame, because it used to a great programme.

09-11-2009, 11:21	#3
sharw Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 96	Since it moved from 30 mins. to an hour it has felt like a 30 min. programme stretched out. I only watch it on iPlayer so that I can skip over those tediously slow filler bits.

09-11-2009, 11:39	#5
Camino Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Buckinghamshire Posts: 1,294	I really liked Monty he was so calming and interesting but Toby the new presenter is so dull im afraid and Carol only features in small clips she needs a bigger role, i wouldnt even mind Titchmarsh coming back. It has seriously gone down hill and the new garden is not terribly attractive.

09-11-2009, 11:51	#6
Mariaella Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 935	It mightn't be altogether the new presenter's fault. Gardening has kind of gone out of fashion in recent years. Remember the heyday of Ground Force and numerous other garden makeover shows with Diarmuid Gavin and other celebrity gardeners? It seemed that everyone had decking and water features and spent all their leisure time down at the garden centre. Gardeners World is the only gardening show left. It existed before the others and, hopefully, will survive for many more years to come.

09-11-2009, 12:01	#7
jabegy Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: North Hampshire Services: a compaq computer, an ipod, a jake gyllenhaal calendar and a bus pass Posts: 2,430	I'm just hoping and praying that the god Alan comes back. It's just not been the same since he left.

09-11-2009, 13:47	#12
scotch Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,149	I've given up with the new show, hate it. Love Carole Kelin though

09-11-2009, 15:46	#16
quisling Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,181	The last phase of 'fashion gardening' was all to do with the property boom and tied in with programmes like Changing Rooms. The current gardening trend is more about growing your own fruit and veg for economic and health reasons, and/or seeing your garden as your very own little piece of nature rather than a fashion statement. I thought Monty Don tapped into the second wave perfectly, but the programme does seem to have lost it's way a little bit and doesn't seem to know who it's target audience is. It's all gone a little bit Woolworths in that it's trying to appeal to everyone and ends up annoying a lot of potential viewers by appearing lightweight with it's ever shorter sections and generally too much going on to be able to cover anything in depth. Perhaps if (as with so many programmes) the BBC stopped fretting quite so much about ratings and concentrated on producing a serious gardening programme for serious gardeners, it might surprise itself by finding it's got a quite a substantial potential audience after all.

09-11-2009, 18:02	#19
Loz_Fraggle Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,249	I think they're trying to make the new presenters very Top Gear-esque, you know the chumminess of the presenters, it works with Top Gear but doesn't seem to here. I don't like gardening but have to put up with it being on because my mum likes it. It seems they are trying to appeal to younger viewers, yet it seems they're going to alienate other viewers. I can't stand that Alys Fowler, 'thrifty gardener' my arse.

09-11-2009, 23:25	#22
soapfan_1973 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Birmingham Services: Virgin Media VIP package Posts: 487	For me GW will always be Geoff Hamilton although I do vaguely recall episodes with the brilliant Percy Thrower , better known for my generation as the Blue Peter gardener. Coming from Birmingham, Mr A.T. will always be remembered to me as the Pebble Mill gardener (sadly demolished a few years ago and now an empty building lot )

10-11-2009, 00:23	#25
JellyKate Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Somewhere In London Posts: 297	I used to watch GW regularly but I've hardly watched this series at all. I'm afraid Toby is very dull compared to other presenters. And that Alyse or whatever her name is, is terribly irritating. Can't stand her. The only bits that are watchable are the bits with Joe or Carol. Wish they'd given Chris Beardshaw the job, and not just because he's very easy on the eye... The new garden isn't interesting at all and doesn't bear much relation to a real garden. I miss Berryfields. And it irritates me when Toby says things like "I've planted up this lovely container and it only cost £50" - excuse me? £50 for one container??? He and Alyse live in another world from us ordinary gardeners, I fear.