[Dear Viewer]

Moel-Y-Parc completes its DSO on 28 October, with Long Mountain completing on 4th November - the same day as Winter Hill.

What consequences. or even benefits, for Winter Hill consumers?! So far, with Freeview equipment I've re-tuned, I found (by luck or design) that they have favoured the majority group of channels, ie. Winter Hill.

M-Y-P will soon have as many digital channels to offer as Winter Hill, and a higher transmitter power to boot.

Unless we know what we are doing, perhaps its best for consumers to leave their Freeview equipment alone until 4th November when Winter Hill is transmitting its channels at top power.

[brunobrookes]

2 December is when WH goes through DSO2 - dates mixed up! Yes, those who don't like fiddling around are best to wait until afternoon of 2 December.

[mrdtv]

4 November is long gone!

Winter Hill completes on 2nd December. Those with aototuning boxes are going to have more headaches come 25 November as more Moel-y-Parc muxes come on air at 20kW in particular D3&4. This means that LCN 1-5 will be BBC1 Wales, BBC2Wales , HTV, S4C and Five for many North West viewers leading Granada to potentially lose hundreds of thousands of viewers. BARB will not like this unforeseen technical development. The problem seems to stretch from Blackpool, through to Manchester and Salford, to Liverpool and down to Cheshire: these were all areas in the MyP analogue footprint. It will be compounded when NW viewers have to retune again on December 2nd:

The only solutions appear to be:

a) Manual tuning

b) Use of variable attenuators

c) Keeping the aerial out until the last MyP channel is passed ( Ch 52)

d) Buy receivers which handle this problem eg the Tesco receiver mentioned yesterday.

e) Edit the channel list to reorder the LCNs if the receiver has this facility.

f) Get a Group C/D aerial installed for Winter Hill


All of these options either imply a cost and/or significant technology competencies and confidence in carrying out the actions. This has major iimplications for elderly and disadvantaged groups which the DUK help scheme is supposed to handle.

It is interesting that Storeton England viewers have not been affected because the Storeton DTT channels are below MyP and are therefore stored first before MyP whereas Winter Hill channels are stored LAST by many receivers. Along the North Wales coast there seems to have been less of a problem perhaps because MyP and Winter Hill are more or less in line and receivers which sort on the basis of strongest signal strength will put WH first because it is going to be 100kW whereas MyP is going to be 20kW.

Granada should be seriously concerned about what happens to Channel 3 in the North West on December 2nd. To quote Laurel and Hardy: 'Freeview that's another fine mess you've got us into'

[Dear Viewer]

Originally Posted by brunobrookes

2 December is when WH goes through DSO2 - dates mixed up! Yes, those who don't like fiddling around are best to wait until afternoon of 2 December.

Meant 2nd December, sorry.

[digispec]

Not that I watch analogue TV anymore, but in the short term it'll be interesting to see how the analogue "five" from Winter Hill on UHF 48 is affected (until 2nd Dec) when the high powered ArqB Mux from M-y-P comes on line on 48- on Nov 25.

[John259]

Originally Posted by mrdtv

this unforeseen technical development

If wasn't unforeseen by anyone with even a tiny amount of technical knowledge. It will of course become far more widespread over the country as other Freeview power levels are increased.

John

[mrdtv]

Originally Posted by John259

If wasn't unforeseen by anyone with even a tiny amount of technical knowledge. It will of course become far more widespread over the country as other Freeview power levels are increased.

John

The perils of email exchange: I was being sardonic. That would have been obvious from the context...

[John259]

Originally Posted by mrdtv

The perils of email exchange: I was being sardonic.

Ah, I do apologise.

[Rossall]

I'm definitely watching Granada Tonight on December 2nd to witness the catastrophic fallout after thousands of viewers rescan their boxes and get BBC Wales, ITV Wales and S4C in their 1-4 slots. I suspect many North West viewers will be stuck with Wales Tonight.

Moel Y Parc coverage area: http://tx.mb21.co.uk/mapsys/anatv/moel-y-parc.gif

[GaryLov]

Originally Posted by digispec

Not that I watch analogue TV anymore, but in the short term it'll be interesting to see how the analogue "five" from Winter Hill on UHF 48 is affected (until 2nd Dec) when the high powered ArqB Mux from M-y-P comes on line on 48- on Nov 25.

As it happens, the powers that be have foreseen this one. The lucky people in MyP-land have what amounts to a DSO3 (hope someone has told them). It's described by DigitalUk as "COM late channel change":

28/10: 45, 58, 61, 30, 34
25/11: 45, 49, 61, 30, 34
02/12: 45, 49, 51, 52, 48

[mrdtv]

Originally Posted by Rossall

I'm definitely watching Granada Tonight on December 2nd to witness the catastrophic fallout after thousands of viewers rescan their boxes and get BBC Wales, ITV Wales and S4C in their 1-4 slots. I suspect many North West viewers will be stuck with Wales Tonight.

Moel Y Parc coverage area: http://tx.mb21.co.uk/mapsys/anatv/moel-y-parc.gif

I do hope somebody sues or initiates a class action against DUK, Freeview, DTG and Ofcom. Because they deserve it for negligence....

[kasg]

Originally Posted by mrdtv

I do hope somebody sues or initiates a class action against DUK, Freeview, DTG and Ofcom. Because they deserve it for negligence....

Class Action is a US legal term - no such thing here, although a consumer group could potentially take it up - but what would it achieve?

[digispec]

Originally Posted by GaryLov

As it happens, the powers that be have foreseen this one. The lucky people in MyP-land have what amounts to a DSO3 (hope someone has told them). It's described by DigitalUk as "COM late channel change":

28/10: 45, 58, 61, 30, 34
25/11: 45, 49, 61, 30, 34
02/12: 45, 49, 51, 52, 48

Thanks for the info, I'd forgotten about that! Now you mention it - I do think I remember that someone posted about DSO3 in another thread. I wonder if they do have this DSO3 date printed out on their huge "Digital Al" style DSO posters.

I just saw two of these posters by the Birkenhead tunnel this morning, for the WH area - doesn't look like there'd be room to fit a third DSO on that particular poster template!

[GaryLov]

It is burried at the back of the consumer "glossy" leaflet on page 15. Wouldn't be surprised if many people don't miss it.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/as...hBro_may09.pdf

[reslfj]

Originally Posted by GaryLov

It is burried at the back of the consumer "glossy" leaflet on page 15. Wouldn't be surprised if many people don't miss it.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/as...hBro_may09.pdf

Its also in this technical paper:
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/as...l12Oct09me.pdf

And digitaluk.co.uk has the info in the trade view with eg. postcode LL197JG .

Lars

[ledders]

Originally Posted by digispec

I just saw two of these posters by the Birkenhead tunnel this morning, for the WH area - doesn't look like there'd be room to fit a third DSO on that particular poster template!

No, there is no mention of 2nd December on the posters for the Moel Y Parc schedule at all. Only 28th October and 25th November. As there is no mention of 2nd December, will this still be happening on that date? Has it been confirmed?

Does anybody know if there will be a power increase on November 25th? Or will this happen on 2nd December?

[janet owen]

Does anybody know if there will be a power increase on November 25th? Or will this happen on 2nd December?[/quote]

Some one on DS threads suggested it was Dec as Nov
Power Increase at MYP had been postponed, ,otherwise
don't know.

I smile when I leave Wales on the old Chester Road at Rossett
which joins Pulford England, Two lamposts five feet apart give differing infos, as if anyone in Rossett watched M Y P,suppose the borders the border, what a farce.

[a516]

Moel Y Parc:

25th November: D3&4 launches at full post-switchover power on new frequency. Becomes available on all relays.
Existing low power Freeview (and Top Up TV) service on Multiplex A, C and D continues from Moel Y Parc only.
A retune is required.

Technically on the above date the switchover from analogue to digital is complete - the analogue signals will cease just after midnight from Moel Y Parc and relays.

The switchover from low-powered digital to high-power digital and the changing of frequencies continues seven days later:

2nd December: New post-switchover multiplexes SDN (Mux A), Arq A (Mux C) and Arq B (Mux D) launch on new post-switchover frequencies at Moel Y Parc only.
Arq B will broadcast at full post-switchover power.
SDN and Arq A will broadcast at slightly higher than pre-switchover levels but will not go to full post-switchover levels until 2011, so as not to interfere with pre-switchover Mux B and Mux C from Sutton Coldfield.
A retune is required (Not relays).

1st Half of 2010: BBC-B HD launches.


On a different point - I inputted a Manchester postcode on the Digital UK database (trade view) and it showed Moel Y Parc, but indicated that over the next few years the signal would not be as strong. Perhaps radiation patterns might change slightly as adjacant regions switchover?

[AD]

I know this may be slightly off the original topic but...

I live in Neston on the Wirral and currently can only get decent signal from MYP. I would like to get Winter Hill as it would give programs / news for the area I live in rather than Wales.

I have today had a new aerial installed with the intention of getting a signal from Winter Hill.
Apparently the signal wasn't powerful enough being only 27dB, so this new aerial is now swung round to face MYP.

My questions are;
Can I expect the signal level from Winter Hill to increase enabling this new aerial to pick up a signal from Winter Hill?

If I can get 27dB today, what could I expect in the future and would this be powerful enough?

When would any change take place, I see various dated being mentioned but am confused?

[a516]

Originally Posted by AD

I know this may be slightly off the original topic but...

I live in Neston on the Wirral and currently can only get decent signal from MYP. I would like to get Winter Hill as it would give programs / news for the area I live in rather than Wales.

I have today had a new aerial installed with the intention of getting a signal from Winter Hill.
Apparently the signal wasn't powerful enough being only 27dB, so this new aerial is now swung round to face MYP.

My questions are;
Can I expect the signal level from Winter Hill to increase enabling this new aerial to pick up a signal from Winter Hill?

If I can get 27dB today, what could I expect in the future and would this be powerful enough?

When would any change take place, I see various dated being mentioned but am confused?

Would Storeton (a relay of both Moel Y Parc and Winter Hill) be of any use to you?

[AD]

Originally Posted by a516

Would Storeton (a relay of both Moel Y Parc and Winter Hill) be of any use to you?

I think it is also to weak from where we are, we are in a bit of a dip!

I am wondering when the switchover pans out, if when the power gets cranked up, we will be able to get Winter Hill.

[mrdtv]

Originally Posted by AD

I know this may be slightly off the original topic but...

I live in Neston on the Wirral and currently can only get decent signal from MYP. I would like to get Winter Hill as it would give programs / news for the area I live in rather than Wales.

I have today had a new aerial installed with the intention of getting a signal from Winter Hill.
Apparently the signal wasn't powerful enough being only 27dB, so this new aerial is now swung round to face MYP.

My questions are;
Can I expect the signal level from Winter Hill to increase enabling this new aerial to pick up a signal from Winter Hill?

If I can get 27dB today, what could I expect in the future and would this be powerful enough?

When would any change take place, I see various dated being mentioned but am confused?

It depends on what aerial was installed: if its a contract it might be problematic. I entered two Neston central postcodes and they both returned perfect reception from Winter Hill.

Try:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/postcodechecker/main/trade

Be sure to tick the trade box. I think you may have been sold a pup. WH started going up by 10dB last week and is being received all over the NW and N Wales. Ask the neighbours what they are getting. Storeton England only radiates over the Mersey and not towards Wales. Let us know..

[AD]

Originally Posted by mrdtv

It depends on what aerial was installed: if its a contract it might be problematic. I entered two Neston central postcodes and they both returned perfect reception from Winter Hill.

Try:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/postcodechecker/main/trade

Be sure to tick the trade box. I think you may have been sold a pup. WH started going up by 10dB last week and is being received all over the NW and N Wales. Ask the neighbours what they are getting. Storeton England only radiates over the Mersey and not towards Wales. Let us know..

Have checked this previously, it shows the following!

Name Region Parent Transmitter Linked Transmitter More information Distance (km) Bearing° Switchover Step 1 Switchover Step 2 Aerial Group Before Aerial Group After
Most Likely Transmitter The Wrekin Central N/A N/A 76 153 2011 2011 W H,C/D H A H,K H
Alternative Transmitter Winter Hill Granada N/A N/A 53 44 4 Nov 09 2 Dec 09 C/D H C/D H
Alternative Transmitter Storeton Wales Wales Moel y Parc Winter Hill 8 15 28 Oct 09 25 Nov 09 C/D H C/D H
Alternative Transmitter Moel y Parc Wales N/A N/A 18 248 28 Oct 09 25 Nov 09 E H,W H B H

I know that the power has gone up, but is it going up any more and if so when.
I read somewhere 2nd December, any ideas if this is correct?

Neighbours aerials, are to say the least "vintage" and all point towrds MYP, further up the road I can see larger poles pointing towards Winter Hill and some probably towards the Wrekin!


Thanks in advance for your help!

[radioredcat]

Don't forget BBC A uhf CH 62 is the only mux on high power from winter hill until dec 2nd.

andy

[AD]

Originally Posted by radioredcat

Don't forget BBC A uhf CH 62 is the only mux on high power from winter hill until dec 2nd.

andy

Assuming the 27 dB reading was not on this mux, what do you think I could expect after december 2nd?

Will it be worth getting them back after December 2nd?