Lucie Not In Rachel's League - So Why The Fuss? - The X Factor

Hogzilla · 09-11-2009, 12:25

I was not a huge Rachel fan, but it was pretty obvious she had the best (by far) female voice in the competition this year. And went out in exactly the same way Lucie did - but, if anything, against a weaker contestant.

I don't get why the fuss about Lucie going out versus Jedward - when there was comparatively little fuss about Rachel going out against a far worse contestant, in the same way?

Love or loathe, Jedward have more media interest and are entertaining/controversial. Bottom line is they are, to some people, compelling viewing. Lucie on the other hand, was never more than average and never for a second of her stay on XF, 'compelling'. Her range was so miniscule, songs constantly had to be scaled down for her, etc etc.

So why the kerfuffle about boring, competent but not great Lucie going - against the Twins - and no fuss about Rachel (who could sing) going, against the atrocious Lloyd?

smashbox · 09-11-2009, 12:28

Very very true! Rachel was the only girl I felt could go all the way. Don't really get the lack of fuss last weak when she went and a dire Lloyd stayed whereas this week all hells broke loose!

masterquan · 09-11-2009, 12:29

Nah. I liked Rachel and she may have a better voice but Lucie sang and performed better during the live shows.
And there was no outrage when Rachel went because Llyod was sick and can sing. He isn't trying to be a novelty act whereas John and Edward are.

Boxfresh · 09-11-2009, 12:29

I think because it came as a shock to see Lucy in the bottom 2.

People already knew Rachel was unpopular, and they put it down to her image or people not connecting with her personality or not knowing enough about her. But she'd been bottom 2 twice before.

Lucy was a complete shock. Nobody realised she lacked public support, and I think many people expected her to skate into the final. Wheras people already knew Rachel was living on borrowed time, no matter how talented she may have been.

If Rchel hadn't been bottom 2 in the first two weeks, I think the outcry would have been similar to Lucy's if she had lost to Jedward.

Bellaaahhhh · 09-11-2009, 12:30

I think the fact that this is the second time Simon has wimped out and gone to the viewers vote is a big factor this time round.

Winsome · 09-11-2009, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashbox

Very very true! Rachel was the only girl I felt could go all the way. Don't really get the lack of fuss last weak when she went and a dire Lloyd stayed whereas this week all hells broke loose!

Just posted on another thread about this. I really thought Rachel had a chance, I was voting for her. However, the public in general didn't like her enough to keep her in. Am I arrogant enough to think that I am right and everyone else is wrong? Nope, she was voted out fairly. I haven't voted for Lucie, tbh I thought she was mediocre, does that make me and all the others who didn't vote for her wrong? Nope, she was voted out fairly.

glenshane · 09-11-2009, 12:35

I totally agree that Rachel was a much better singer than Lucie, and I was very disappointed that she went.

I think there were 2 things though - it was Rachel's 3rd time in the bottom 2, the judges couldn't support someone who was so consistently lacking in public appeal;

Secondly, Lloyd had such a sore throat that he couldn't sing properly - it would have been unfair to send him home that week when he hadn't been able to do himself justice.

red_outlaw · 09-11-2009, 12:39

Personally, I think Lucie is by far the better singer and whilst she has consistently sung beautifully, Rachel tended to strain and failed stay in tune in some parts of her songs.

However, having said that, I could have accepted it had Lucie gone out to her (although would still have been gutted). The point is that a fabulous singer has lost out to a pair of twins who are tone-deaf. Anyone could prance around the stage like they do.

Winsome · 09-11-2009, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_outlaw

Personally, I think Lucie is by far the better singer and whilst she has consistently sung beautifully, Rachel tended to strain and failed stay in tune in some parts of her songs.

However, having said that, I could have accepted it had Lucie gone out to her (although would still have been gutted). The point is that a fabulous singer has lost out to a pair of twins who are tone-deaf. Anyone could prance around the stage like they do.

And Rachel lost out to Lloyd.... enough said

Blue Aardvark · 09-11-2009, 12:54

What's hilarious is Lloyd's voice actually fell apart mid-performance and he pretty much stopped for a moment to say "oh crap" - yet not even that gets them to change the script and get rid of his pitiful presence. So it just exposes the lie. The judges' decision is purely to manipulate the public vote when it suits them and then to hide behind the public vote when that suits them too. They obviously have a list of preference and neither the voting of the audience or the judges has much impact other than to determine the order in which the least favoured acts go home. So basically it's a waste of money voting because the whole thing's a borderline fraud. Maybe they use some of the voting data after the fact to revise their priorities because it's probably useful market research. But short of the producers two favourite contestants being in the bottom two, there's no point voting until they get to the final. Like her or not, Rachel did seem to be one of the two or three best vocalists by any credible measure, didn't she. What a circus. I thought Lucie was decidedly mediocre and a bit embarrassing any time she was interviewed, but she's a kid, she should finish education then try for a singing career when she's a bit more mature. They need to stop hyping these children except in the rare instances they are precociously smart or charismatic - none of these kids is ever going to be Miley Cyrus. But she did have some potential at least. John and Edward were singing over a backing track for Christ's sake. But in terms of stage presence there's more to work with, so you can see the thinking from the television production stand point. This is after all the channel that moronically believes Ant and Dec aren't completely talentless. But it makes a mockery of Simon Cowell's fake persona as a "music mogul".

VoiceOfTreason · 09-11-2009, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogzilla

I was not a huge Rachel fan, but it was pretty obvious she had the best (by far) female voice in the competition this year. And went out in exactly the same way Lucie did - but, if anything, against a weaker contestant.

I don't get why the fuss about Lucie going out versus Jedward - when there was comparatively little fuss about Rachel going out against a far worse contestant, in the same way?

Love or loathe, Jedward have more media interest and are entertaining/controversial. Bottom line is they are, to some people, compelling viewing. Lucie on the other hand, was never more than average and never for a second of her stay on XF, 'compelling'. Her range was so miniscule, songs constantly had to be scaled down for her, etc etc.

So why the kerfuffle about boring, competent but not great Lucie going - against the Twins - and no fuss about Rachel (who could sing) going, against the atrocious Lloyd?

It's got nothing to do with who went, and everything to do with who stayed. There would have been outrage over anyone losing in the sing-off to John & Edward.

americandreamer · 09-11-2009, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogzilla

I was not a huge Rachel fan, but it was pretty obvious she had the best (by far) female voice in the competition this year.

Complete codswhallop. Lucie trounced her all throughout the show, as did Stacey. Rachel should never have made the lives, which was blatantly obvious by her poor performances.

KPG1978 · 09-11-2009, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by americandreamer

Complete codswhallop. Lucie trounced her all throughout the show, as did Stacey. Rachel should never have made the lives, which was blatantly obvious by her poor performances.

Totally agree with this and disagree with the OP.

I loved Lucie's voice and didnt like Rachel's, that may made me look at it less objectively but I don't think so, I honestly think Lucie is the better singer and has the better voice.

Hogzilla · 09-11-2009, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by americandreamer

Complete codswhallop. Lucie trounced her all throughout the show, as did Stacey. Rachel should never have made the lives, which was blatantly obvious by her poor performances.

Ooh doesn't 'codswallop' look classier with that 'h' in?

Well it's subjective, but in my opinion - and that's all it is, an opinion - Rachel had a good, sound voice that technically was way superior to Lucie's. That's just my opinion and it's no more valid than your's.

I think VoiceofTrason is probably accurate to say there'd be outrage about anyone going versus Jedward. (Except Lloyd?)

Blue Aardvark I'm with you on the Lloyd 'Oh crap' moment. I actually thought he was about to burst into tears at one point or run off the stage, sobbing - even he seemed aware it was a stunningly bad performance. At least in the sing off, Jedward sang in tune - far more than Lloyd has been capable of doing for the entire competition.

xenosys · 09-11-2009, 13:07

The gap in discernible talent was greater between Lucie & Jedward, than it was between Rachel & Lloyd. Not to mention J&E are a marmite act. Love them or hate them. Lloyd just doesn't seem interesting enough for the media to be able to generate that much hate/love.

Faria262 · 09-11-2009, 13:11

I prefer Lucie's voice - and Stacey's - to Rachel's, and think she was consistently outperformed by both of them. I preferred her to Lloyd, but he's my least faourite contrestant overall. He's actually the only person I'd have rooted for her over - other than Kandy Rain. J&E are entertaining, and I'd have missed them if they'd gone, but I'll miss Lucie too.

I think Rachel's frequent bottom 2 placings are part of what stopped her elimination from being a shock, but if she was one of the best singers in the competition, she didn't prove it to me, and I don't find her especially likeable.

xxxx

Retrospective · 09-11-2009, 13:23

I liked Rachel and was sorry when she was put out last week. I liked Lucie more when she started singing the rock chicks songs. Both Rachel and Lucy should still be in the competition. Lloyd and Joe, Stacey, Danyl can't stand any of them. There is only Olly who is my favourite and I like Jamie as well. They are the only two left that I like.
As for the twins. Well they are tone deaf can't sing can't dance. I thought it was supposed to be a singing competition?
If this had been Opportunity Knocks or New Faces talent programmes from the seventies the twins would have never had got through as you had to be talented back then. Which would have meant that Rachel, and Lucie would have still been in.

Hogzilla · 09-11-2009, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrospective

If this had been Opportunity Knocks or New Faces talent programmes from the seventies the twins would have never had got through as you had to be talented back then. Which would have meant that Rachel, and Lucie would have still been in.

The talentless have always been with us.

Jim Davidson won new Faces didn't he?

ballyclark · 09-11-2009, 13:30

The fuss isn't about Lucie going, it is about Cowell blatantly pulling a ratings stunt & gambling the Twins, he has slated for weeks, would stay in the competition.

On Saturday he stated Lucie was current, & 24 hours later stated she was never going to win the show.

Danyl was in the Bottom 2 & Cowell made no mention of that being an indication he can't win the show. Quite the opposite in fact.

The furore is not Lucie going it is Cowell manipulating events to suit his own ends.

Hogzilla · 09-11-2009, 13:33

Yes, I was surprised when he said he hadn't been surprised that Lucie and Jedward were bottom 2 - as I could swear he said words to the effect that Lucie was improving/maybe even implied she was safe, on Saturday? I could be wrong. I was halfway through a bottle of wine at that point...

Unigal07 · 09-11-2009, 13:35

Because Rachel had been in the bottom 2 twice before. I don't think she should have gone either, I really liked her. However she was never going to go all the way. Plus she was against Lloyd who at least can hold a tune.

Lucie had never been in the bottom two. She'd never performed badly, she'd been great at a variety of styles from jazz/big band to rock... and she goes out to the one act that cannot sing and the one act that Simon has been rolling his eyes at for months.

Putting Lucie at risk like that when the sing off is supposed to protect the great singers from being voted off too early, was unforgiveable. His bo11ocks about not thinking she would go doesn't stand up either. I'm sure he had a good idea. I feel sorry for Lucie (however I think she'll have some sort of singing career whether it be in pop or the theatre), I feel sorry for Dannii and I feel sorry for Lucie's fans.

Oh and yes, I voted, before anybody jumps down my throat. Even if someone didn't - for example if Lucie is someone's second favourite and they voted for their favourite only (like I do) - people have the right to be shocked and disappointed. I hate that argument. But yes I voted.

Unigal07 · 09-11-2009, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballyclark

The fuss isn't about Lucie going, it is about Cowell blatantly pulling a ratings stunt & gambling the Twins, he has slated for weeks, would stay in the competition.

On Saturday he stated Lucie was current, & 24 hours later stated she was never going to win the show.

Danyl was in the Bottom 2 & Cowell made no mention of that being an indication he can't win the show. Quite the opposite in fact.

The furore is not Lucie going it is Cowell manipulating events to suit his own ends.

When Simon's acts are at risk though it's a singing competition remember. When it is anyone else, it's a likeability and popularity contest. He's so hypocritical it's shameful. God knows how he gets away with it.

ballyclark · 09-11-2009, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogzilla

Yes, I was surprised when he said he hadn't been surprised that Lucie and Jedward were bottom 2 - as I could swear he said words to the effect that Lucie was improving/maybe even implied she was safe, on Saturday? I could be wrong. I was halfway through a bottle of wine at that point...

He suggested Stacey was vulnerable

americandreamer · 09-11-2009, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogzilla

Ooh doesn't 'codswallop' look classier with that 'h' in?

Well it's subjective, but in my opinion - and that's all it is, an opinion - Rachel had a good, sound voice that technically was way superior to Lucie's. That's just my opinion and it's no more valid than your's.

I think VoiceofTrason is probably accurate to say there'd be outrage about anyone going versus Jedward. (Except Lloyd?)

Think you'll find it's "Treason".

My, it can happen to the best of us!

Blue Aardvark · 09-11-2009, 13:36

Lloyd does actually have a nice tone to his voice - he just has a stupefyingly limited range so his potential as a singer is basically zilch. He also sounds infuriatingly drippy in all his VT footage. Which isn't his fault. These producers need to stop putting so many teenagers on Saturday night TV. I guess they think it'll get the children hot and bothered and the mums going awe shucks. Ironically, Rachel was a fairly young teenager, but came across as being a lot older, possibly to her detriment. She was much more polished with a lot of upside.

If Lucie and Rachel had been in the bottom two, my view is the judges ought to have saved Rachel, and both would be preferable to Lloyd. Lucie seemed very bland and not as ready as Rachel, although I can see some may have found Rachel a bit screechy at times. I kind of see what they like about John and Edward, but they're more a variety act, surely. They need to write some jokes and learn to juggle or something.

09-11-2009, 12:25	#1
Hogzilla Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,839	Lucie Not In Rachel's League - So Why The Fuss? I was not a huge Rachel fan, but it was pretty obvious she had the best (by far) female voice in the competition this year. And went out in exactly the same way Lucie did - but, if anything, against a weaker contestant. I don't get why the fuss about Lucie going out versus Jedward - when there was comparatively little fuss about Rachel going out against a far worse contestant, in the same way? Love or loathe, Jedward have more media interest and are entertaining/controversial. Bottom line is they are, to some people, compelling viewing. Lucie on the other hand, was never more than average and never for a second of her stay on XF, 'compelling'. Her range was so miniscule, songs constantly had to be scaled down for her, etc etc. So why the kerfuffle about boring, competent but not great Lucie going - against the Twins - and no fuss about Rachel (who could sing) going, against the atrocious Lloyd?

09-11-2009, 12:28	#2
smashbox Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 514	Very very true! Rachel was the only girl I felt could go all the way. Don't really get the lack of fuss last weak when she went and a dire Lloyd stayed whereas this week all hells broke loose!

09-11-2009, 12:29	#3
masterquan Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 130	Nah. I liked Rachel and she may have a better voice but Lucie sang and performed better during the live shows. And there was no outrage when Rachel went because Llyod was sick and can sing. He isn't trying to be a novelty act whereas John and Edward are.

09-11-2009, 12:29	#4
Boxfresh Forum Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 557	I think because it came as a shock to see Lucy in the bottom 2. People already knew Rachel was unpopular, and they put it down to her image or people not connecting with her personality or not knowing enough about her. But she'd been bottom 2 twice before. Lucy was a complete shock. Nobody realised she lacked public support, and I think many people expected her to skate into the final. Wheras people already knew Rachel was living on borrowed time, no matter how talented she may have been. If Rchel hadn't been bottom 2 in the first two weeks, I think the outcry would have been similar to Lucy's if she had lost to Jedward.

09-11-2009, 12:30	#5
Bellaaahhhh Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 2,822	I think the fact that this is the second time Simon has wimped out and gone to the viewers vote is a big factor this time round.

09-11-2009, 12:35	#7
glenshane Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 575	I totally agree that Rachel was a much better singer than Lucie, and I was very disappointed that she went. I think there were 2 things though - it was Rachel's 3rd time in the bottom 2, the judges couldn't support someone who was so consistently lacking in public appeal; Secondly, Lloyd had such a sore throat that he couldn't sing properly - it would have been unfair to send him home that week when he hadn't been able to do himself justice.

09-11-2009, 12:39	#8
red_outlaw Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Nottingham Services: Cowell = national disgrace Posts: 75	Personally, I think Lucie is by far the better singer and whilst she has consistently sung beautifully, Rachel tended to strain and failed stay in tune in some parts of her songs. However, having said that, I could have accepted it had Lucie gone out to her (although would still have been gutted). The point is that a fabulous singer has lost out to a pair of twins who are tone-deaf. Anyone could prance around the stage like they do.

09-11-2009, 12:54	#10
Blue Aardvark Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,108	What's hilarious is Lloyd's voice actually fell apart mid-performance and he pretty much stopped for a moment to say "oh crap" - yet not even that gets them to change the script and get rid of his pitiful presence. So it just exposes the lie. The judges' decision is purely to manipulate the public vote when it suits them and then to hide behind the public vote when that suits them too. They obviously have a list of preference and neither the voting of the audience or the judges has much impact other than to determine the order in which the least favoured acts go home. So basically it's a waste of money voting because the whole thing's a borderline fraud. Maybe they use some of the voting data after the fact to revise their priorities because it's probably useful market research. But short of the producers two favourite contestants being in the bottom two, there's no point voting until they get to the final. Like her or not, Rachel did seem to be one of the two or three best vocalists by any credible measure, didn't she. What a circus. I thought Lucie was decidedly mediocre and a bit embarrassing any time she was interviewed, but she's a kid, she should finish education then try for a singing career when she's a bit more mature. They need to stop hyping these children except in the rare instances they are precociously smart or charismatic - none of these kids is ever going to be Miley Cyrus. But she did have some potential at least. John and Edward were singing over a backing track for Christ's sake. But in terms of stage presence there's more to work with, so you can see the thinking from the television production stand point. This is after all the channel that moronically believes Ant and Dec aren't completely talentless. But it makes a mockery of Simon Cowell's fake persona as a "music mogul".

09-11-2009, 13:07	#15
xenosys Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 870	The gap in discernible talent was greater between Lucie & Jedward, than it was between Rachel & Lloyd. Not to mention J&E are a marmite act. Love them or hate them. Lloyd just doesn't seem interesting enough for the media to be able to generate that much hate/love.

09-11-2009, 13:11	#16
Faria262 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: AMJO - With Love! xxxx Services: JLS - NO AIR DUET ON DEMAND!!!! Posts: 4,035	I prefer Lucie's voice - and Stacey's - to Rachel's, and think she was consistently outperformed by both of them. I preferred her to Lloyd, but he's my least faourite contrestant overall. He's actually the only person I'd have rooted for her over - other than Kandy Rain. J&E are entertaining, and I'd have missed them if they'd gone, but I'll miss Lucie too. I think Rachel's frequent bottom 2 placings are part of what stopped her elimination from being a shock, but if she was one of the best singers in the competition, she didn't prove it to me, and I don't find her especially likeable. xxxx

09-11-2009, 13:23	#17
Retrospective Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 288	I liked Rachel and was sorry when she was put out last week. I liked Lucie more when she started singing the rock chicks songs. Both Rachel and Lucy should still be in the competition. Lloyd and Joe, Stacey, Danyl can't stand any of them. There is only Olly who is my favourite and I like Jamie as well. They are the only two left that I like. As for the twins. Well they are tone deaf can't sing can't dance. I thought it was supposed to be a singing competition? If this had been Opportunity Knocks or New Faces talent programmes from the seventies the twins would have never had got through as you had to be talented back then. Which would have meant that Rachel, and Lucie would have still been in.

09-11-2009, 13:30	#19
ballyclark Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 173	The fuss isn't about Lucie going, it is about Cowell blatantly pulling a ratings stunt & gambling the Twins, he has slated for weeks, would stay in the competition. On Saturday he stated Lucie was current, & 24 hours later stated she was never going to win the show. Danyl was in the Bottom 2 & Cowell made no mention of that being an indication he can't win the show. Quite the opposite in fact. The furore is not Lucie going it is Cowell manipulating events to suit his own ends.

09-11-2009, 13:33	#20
Hogzilla Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,839	Yes, I was surprised when he said he hadn't been surprised that Lucie and Jedward were bottom 2 - as I could swear he said words to the effect that Lucie was improving/maybe even implied she was safe, on Saturday? I could be wrong. I was halfway through a bottle of wine at that point...

09-11-2009, 13:35	#21
Unigal07 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gateshead Services: Liverpool FC, X Factor, Doctor Who. Posts: 4,456	Because Rachel had been in the bottom 2 twice before. I don't think she should have gone either, I really liked her. However she was never going to go all the way. Plus she was against Lloyd who at least can hold a tune. Lucie had never been in the bottom two. She'd never performed badly, she'd been great at a variety of styles from jazz/big band to rock... and she goes out to the one act that cannot sing and the one act that Simon has been rolling his eyes at for months. Putting Lucie at risk like that when the sing off is supposed to protect the great singers from being voted off too early, was unforgiveable. His bo11ocks about not thinking she would go doesn't stand up either. I'm sure he had a good idea. I feel sorry for Lucie (however I think she'll have some sort of singing career whether it be in pop or the theatre), I feel sorry for Dannii and I feel sorry for Lucie's fans. Oh and yes, I voted, before anybody jumps down my throat. Even if someone didn't - for example if Lucie is someone's second favourite and they voted for their favourite only (like I do) - people have the right to be shocked and disappointed. I hate that argument. But yes I voted.

09-11-2009, 13:36	#25
Blue Aardvark Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,108	Lloyd does actually have a nice tone to his voice - he just has a stupefyingly limited range so his potential as a singer is basically zilch. He also sounds infuriatingly drippy in all his VT footage. Which isn't his fault. These producers need to stop putting so many teenagers on Saturday night TV. I guess they think it'll get the children hot and bothered and the mums going awe shucks. Ironically, Rachel was a fairly young teenager, but came across as being a lot older, possibly to her detriment. She was much more polished with a lot of upside. If Lucie and Rachel had been in the bottom two, my view is the judges ought to have saved Rachel, and both would be preferable to Lloyd. Lucie seemed very bland and not as ready as Rachel, although I can see some may have found Rachel a bit screechy at times. I kind of see what they like about John and Edward, but they're more a variety act, surely. They need to write some jokes and learn to juggle or something.