[The Squire]

It's no good trying to work out who he wants to win, or if he's steering the show in the right/wrong direction, just concentrate on the FACTS & you will see that this fallacy of a 'talent contest' is simply not worth the time you spend watching it, let alone agonising over it......

Cowell, just after Leona Lewis performed:
"There is the living proof that this show works & the cream rises to the top"
Shortly before he squashed a lovely young lady's dream of becoming a pop star in favour of a toytown version of Ant & Dec.

Cowell, before the sing off:
"The slate's wiped clean & this will be judged on the performance in the sing off"
Shortly before applying his 'tin ear' to the sing off & missing the fact that Lucie hardly hit a wrong note & that the singing of Burke & Hare Jnr, was (thankfully) drowned out by the backing singers/track - Cowell then let the public decide, even though the public didn't have chance to vote on the sing off.....

Then at the audition stage......

"They cant sing, they cant dance, they'd sell their own grandmother to be on tv, I just think they're vile creatures"

Then, after all the furore about his latest 'outrage' he does no more than blame the public, for not voting enough for Lucie.........Ignoring the fact that most of the viewers probably dont touch ITV phone votes with a bargepole, based on the companies track record with phone ins, or because they dont want to pay a further levy to watch tv, they have the BBC licence fee for that!

Unless the stupid people lining his pockets stop thinking he gives a monkeys about their opinion of him & stop voting ANY way, he will continue to levy his 'tax on stupidity'

You have been warned

[Blue Aardvark]

If it goes to "deadlock" the credible thing would be to reopen phone lines and then announce the result the following Saturday.

Of course Cowell would miss out on an opportunity for being incredibly smug. But he'd make more money. So he probably just hasn't thought of this yet.

[The Squire]

The only thing Cowell has in common with credible are the letters c,l & e

[ballyclark]

I broadly agree with your post.

I think most viewers who watch or vote are aware of being manipulated in the name of entertainment.

Where Cowell has possibly got it wrong this time is by so blatantly making it clear he has no interest in a singing contest or keeping the better singers in as long as possible.

The credibility of the show was finally extingished last night because it was so blatant.

I am minded of the Big Brother series , Pete's year, when the producers manufactured a scenario for Nicki to be voted back into the house after the public had already voted her out.

Blatant manipulation then, which I think effectively killed that programme.

[marks thespot]

Originally Posted by Blue Aardvark

If it goes to "deadlock" the credible thing would be to reopen phone lines and then announce the result the following Saturday.

Of course Cowell would miss out on an opportunity for being incredibly smug. But he'd make more money. So he probably just hasn't thought of this yet.

But then he loses his element of control. He would never go to deadlock unless he was happy with the outcome.

[oathy]

Originally Posted by ballyclark

I broadly agree with your post.

I think most viewers who watch or vote are aware of being manipulated in the name of entertainment.

Where Cowell has possibly got it wrong this time is by so blatantly making it clear he has no interest in a singing contest or keeping the better singers in as long as possible.

The credibility of the show was finally extingished last night because it was so blatant.

I am minded of the Big Brother series , Pete's year, when the producers manufactured a scenario for Nicki to be voted back into the house after the public had already voted her out.

Blatant manipulation then, which I think effectively killed that programme.

hi I tried making this point last night didnt word it very well..I totally agree

[cathay]

The best thing would be for the public to make Jedward win NOW - and let Simon give them the £1M contract - then perhaps, Simon could also show-off his X Factor" winning act in the US?

[Blue Aardvark]

I think it's a good point that the public vote closes before the sing off. So referring back to that is the equivalent of saying sorry folks for wasting everybody's time tonight.

It's also not necessarily a fair measure of contestant popularity anyway. For instance it isn't inconceivable that an act in the bottom two might be a lot of people's second favourite act, rather than being most people's least favourite act.

If you had a direct vote between two contestants, the results might not be the same as in a poll of the whole field. Especially after a second performance to mull over. The whole thing is pretty shambolic. Cowell is shameless but he'll be found out eventually.

[The Squire]

It did smack of the 'Nikki scenario' in Big Brother & I hope this show also dies a death because of it.
He's made plenty & he should just sod off now.......

[The Squire]

Originally Posted by cathay

The best thing would be for the public to make Jedward win NOW - and let Simon give them the £1M contract - then perhaps, Simon could also show-off his X Factor" winning act in the US?

Dont make the mistake of thinking a win for those two idiots would be a bad thing for Cowell, he's already doing the spadework & he's making all the judges toe the line saying they're "entertaining" & lovelylads, when they are clearly willing to do anything to stay on tv (pretty much what he said when he first laid eyes on them) & he'll have no difficulty selling their first couple of shows to ITV on the strength of the idiots who voted for them in the first place...

Can you imagine ANY of those judges settling down for a night in front of the telly & sticking on a JEDWARD video, because they want some 'entertainment' ???

[Martacus]

Originally Posted by The Squire

It's no good trying to work out who he wants to win, or if he's steering the show in the right/wrong direction, just concentrate on the FACTS & you will see that this fallacy of a 'talent contest' is simply not worth the time you spend watching it, let alone agonising over it......

Cowell, just after Leona Lewis performed:
"There is the living proof that this show works & the cream rises to the top"
Shortly before he squashed a lovely young lady's dream of becoming a pop star in favour of a toytown version of Ant & Dec.

Cowell, before the sing off:
"The slate's wiped clean & this will be judged on the performance in the sing off"
Shortly before applying his 'tin ear' to the sing off & missing the fact that Lucie hardly hit a wrong note & that the singing of Burke & Hare Jnr, was (thankfully) drowned out by the backing singers/track - Cowell then let the public decide, even though the public didn't have chance to vote on the sing off.....

Then at the audition stage......

"They cant sing, they cant dance, they'd sell their own grandmother to be on tv, I just think they're vile creatures"

Then, after all the furore about his latest 'outrage' he does no more than blame the public, for not voting enough for Lucie.........Ignoring the fact that most of the viewers probably dont touch ITV phone votes with a bargepole, based on the companies track record with phone ins, or because they dont want to pay a further levy to watch tv, they have the BBC licence fee for that!

Unless the stupid people lining his pockets stop thinking he gives a monkeys about their opinion of him & stop voting ANY way, he will continue to levy his 'tax on stupidity'

You have been warned

I also agree, I have lost it with this programme, I'm not sure what sort of programme I'm watching anymore, be it a talent contest or an entertainment programme. It's quite obvious to me the record buying public & voting public are two completely different animals. You only have to look at the examples of the non sales Leon & Steve Brookstein to realise this & the good sales of the likes of Rhydian & G4.
Cowell changes his mind to suit his arguement & quite frankly anything he says should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Blue Aardvark]

In Big Brother don't they often have a vote where you vote for who is your least favourite? And this causes problems with keeping in a lot of the dead wood for far too long at the expense of polarising characters. So a lot of fans feel it would work better if they could vote for their favourite with the last place finisher being evicted. In other words, Big Brother would probably benefit from employing the same voting system as the X Factor.

What if the X Factor employed Big Brother's voting system? Vote for the worst. Not in the ironic way people are probably doing with John and Edward. But so that whoever gets the most votes goes home because they're the least popular. Would this work? X Factor is allegedly different to Big Brother in being a "talent" competition - although I suspect a lot of kids do just vote based on perceived personality. Maybe early on this would ensure the poor singers go home. Then switch to positive voting nearer the final? There's probably some unintended consequence I'm missing.

[Davser]

I reckon Cowell saw Lucie as an emerging threat and got rid esp as Minogue has been having a moan about seating positions.

Plus Jedward draw the publicity.

[red_outlaw]

Originally Posted by Blue Aardvark

I think it's a good point that the public vote closes before the sing off. So referring back to that is the equivalent of saying sorry folks for wasting everybody's time tonight.

It's also not necessarily a fair measure of contestant popularity anyway. For instance it isn't inconceivable that an act in the bottom two might be a lot of people's second favourite act, rather than being most people's least favourite act.
If you had a direct vote between two contestants, the results might not be the same as in a poll of the whole field. Especially after a second performance to mull over. The whole thing is pretty shambolic. Cowell is shameless but he'll be found out eventually.

Thank you! Someone's finally said exactly what I've been thinking. The majority of people will have voted for one of the best vocalists. However, at this stage of the competition, this particular type of voter gets split between a number of acts, thus making one vulnerable. Unfortunately, this is what happened to Lucie.

Some people may have voted for Joe because he was their favourite but still loved Lucie's performance. Given a straight choice between her and John and Edward (in a public vote) the vast majority of voters (those who vote for one of the best singers) would have voted to keep Lucie in.

[Syntax Error]

Originally Posted by The Squire

It's no good trying to work out who he wants to win, or if he's steering the show in the right/wrong direction, just concentrate on the FACTS & you will see that this fallacy of a 'talent contest' is simply not worth the time you spend watching it, let alone agonising over it......

Cowell, just after Leona Lewis performed:
"There is the living proof that this show works & the cream rises to the top"
Shortly before he squashed a lovely young lady's dream of becoming a pop star in favour of a toytown version of Ant & Dec.

Cowell, before the sing off:
"The slate's wiped clean & this will be judged on the performance in the sing off"
Shortly before applying his 'tin ear' to the sing off & missing the fact that Lucie hardly hit a wrong note & that the singing of Burke & Hare Jnr, was (thankfully) drowned out by the backing singers/track - Cowell then let the public decide, even though the public didn't have chance to vote on the sing off.....

Then at the audition stage......

"They cant sing, they cant dance, they'd sell their own grandmother to be on tv, I just think they're vile creatures"

Then, after all the furore about his latest 'outrage' he does no more than blame the public, for not voting enough for Lucie.........Ignoring the fact that most of the viewers probably dont touch ITV phone votes with a bargepole, based on the companies track record with phone ins, or because they dont want to pay a further levy to watch tv, they have the BBC licence fee for that!

Unless the stupid people lining his pockets stop thinking he gives a monkeys about their opinion of him & stop voting ANY way, he will continue to levy his 'tax on stupidity'

You have been warned

Great post.

You cannot argue with a word you've said.

[Charlottesweb]

I posted this morning about this too.

It was a significant moment.

The show has always been about money for Cowell, but its had a veneer of a psuedo talent competition to protect it, to give people a reason to vote, and give the show a smidgeon of credibility.

As I said before, the irony of wheeling out leona as 'the proof' its a talent contest 10 minutes before chucking out the singer, not to mention the trickery of lowering the twins mic levels during the singing portions of their song so only the backing vocalists could be heard, totally destroyed that veneer of credibility, and any pretence that this is any sort of talent contest.

Long term, I think it will hurt him.

[hitnmix]

Best thread of the day, and glad you did it we need more threads like this.

[The Squire]

Dont forget to pay your poll tax for watching the show on Saturday folks !!!
Vote vote vote, to keep your favourites in.....

If they really wanted the public to decide, you'd be voting for someone to get binned, but dont let that get in the way of Simon Cowell telling you how to think......

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by The Squire

It's no good trying to work out who he wants to win, or if he's steering the show in the right/wrong direction, just concentrate on the FACTS & you will see that this fallacy of a 'talent contest' is simply not worth the time you spend watching it, let alone agonising over it......

Cowell, just after Leona Lewis performed:
"There is the living proof that this show works & the cream rises to the top"
Shortly before he squashed a lovely young lady's dream of becoming a pop star in favour of a toytown version of Ant & Dec.

Cowell, before the sing off:
"The slate's wiped clean & this will be judged on the performance in the sing off"
Shortly before applying his 'tin ear' to the sing off & missing the fact that Lucie hardly hit a wrong note & that the singing of Burke & Hare Jnr, was (thankfully) drowned out by the backing singers/track - Cowell then let the public decide, even though the public didn't have chance to vote on the sing off.....

Then at the audition stage......

"They cant sing, they cant dance, they'd sell their own grandmother to be on tv, I just think they're vile creatures"

Then, after all the furore about his latest 'outrage' he does no more than blame the public, for not voting enough for Lucie.........Ignoring the fact that most of the viewers probably dont touch ITV phone votes with a bargepole, based on the companies track record with phone ins, or because they dont want to pay a further levy to watch tv, they have the BBC licence fee for that!

Unless the stupid people lining his pockets stop thinking he gives a monkeys about their opinion of him & stop voting ANY way, he will continue to levy his 'tax on stupidity'

You have been warned

All great points, dude . . . . . .

One hopes smart *ass Cowell has bitten off more than he can chew this time . . .

[Charlies Angel]

Opening Post: great, I totally agree!

[Forever Awkward]

Originally Posted by Blue Aardvark

If it goes to "deadlock" the credible thing would be to reopen phone lines and then announce the result the following Saturday.

Of course Cowell would miss out on an opportunity for being incredibly smug. But he'd make more money. So he probably just hasn't thought of this yet.

The only problem with this is that one of the acts would be rehearsing the whole week and then not get to perform which is sort of prolonging the agony.

[Annsyre]

Originally Posted by Blue Aardvark

If it goes to "deadlock" the credible thing would be to reopen phone lines and then announce the result the following Saturday.

Of course Cowell would miss out on an opportunity for being incredibly smug. But he'd make more money. So he probably just hasn't thought of this yet.

He has just been named the top US earner for the past year. He earned more than Donald Trump. I think that he's already getting the best financial advice.

[Lizzy11268]

There are a lot of valid points in all these posts, including the OP's.

However, from my point of view, I understand all that and will STILL be carrying on as usual. What Simon did on Sunday did not surprise me in the slightest, I was pretty much waiting for that to happen. Anything else would have been dull and wouldnt have caused any controversy whatsoever. We and the tabloids would have had very little to talk about this week, apart from maybe 1 day's worth of "Oh, The Twins have finally left the competition - Hurray or Boo depending on your view"

I waited for, and was granted, a Simon "I may have got it wrong" speech. I then waited for, and was granted a "Simon slags the twins off again" speech. He will "address" the issue on Saturday nights show, and I have not yet decided whether he is going to go down the "apologetic, sorry, should have been more consistent blah blah" route or the "Hey I'm Simon Cowell, I was right and you are wrong!" route - this is the only thing I can't call.

So, I know exactly how it works thanks. However, for me, it is now, and has always been, a light entertainment show that I really enjoy on a Saturday night. I enjoy the drama and the outrage and SC and his inconstencies and coming and posting on here afterwards.

I am lucky enough to be able to afford to vote a few times each week, I don't drink or go out over much because of the baby, so I vote for those I like and don't bother for those I don't rate, or only like a little.

I come on here and argue with people and agree with people and have a bit of fun.

The one thing this year that has managed to annoy me somewhat, is the "hatred" towards the Twins and Danyl. Mob mentality always drives me nuts.

But hey, it will all be forgotton soon. By me, probably around 5 minutes after the final finishes.

[spannerandpony]

Originally Posted by Forever Awkward

The only problem with this is that one of the acts would be rehearsing the whole week and then not get to perform which is sort of prolonging the agony.

Agreed. Well then the other route would be to announce the bottom two at the BEGINNING of Sunday's show, then have the sing off, THEN re-open the phone lines for those two and leave them open during the two guest performances, 800 adverts, etc.

That would still give people at least half an hour to vote and then at least it would be based on the sing off ("wiping the slate clean, etc., blah blah).

Gives the public a little bit of control back, at least.

[halloweenbabe]

Originally Posted by Blue Aardvark

In Big Brother don't they often have a vote where you vote for who is your least favourite? And this causes problems with keeping in a lot of the dead wood for far too long at the expense of polarising characters. So a lot of fans feel it would work better if they could vote for their favourite with the last place finisher being evicted. In other words, Big Brother would probably benefit from employing the same voting system as the X Factor.

What if the X Factor employed Big Brother's voting system? Vote for the worst. Not in the ironic way people are probably doing with John and Edward. But so that whoever gets the most votes goes home because they're the least popular. Would this work? X Factor is allegedly different to Big Brother in being a "talent" competition - although I suspect a lot of kids do just vote based on perceived personality. Maybe early on this would ensure the poor singers go home. Then switch to positive voting nearer the final? There's probably some unintended consequence I'm missing.

It's been said elsewhere on DS. Chances are that most peeps would only vote once for the one act they want out. Currently, lotsa voters vote more than once and for more than one contestant. Much more $$$£££. Simples!