Company Move - Advice

vinba · 10-11-2009, 08:55

Hi,

Just wondering who's in the right here. Our company is moving in January and wants it to be as cheap as possible. They've told us that we'll have to to work the 4 weekends before the move (including Christmas)and evenings without overtime or days of in lieu as it has to cost nothing for the actual move to take place. We'll also be expected to work our normal hours. We have no say in the matter and it's a disciplinary offence to refuse. Can they actually do this? They're expecting us to also move heavy bits of equipment as they don't want to pay for a removal firm.

Can we refuse without getting the sack?

Charlie Coo · 10-11-2009, 09:09

I don't know legally where you stand but that is crazy.

Keefy-boy · 10-11-2009, 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinba

Can we refuse without getting the sack?

unless it is written into your contract they cannot make you do that work. it's outrageous. what a bunch of cowboys. they could sack you but it would clearly be unfair dismissal. there are also clearly health and safety issues. you cannot bring a case of unfair dismissal without being employed there for a year though.

fainéant · 10-11-2009, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinba

They've told us that we'll have to to work the 4 weekends before the move (including Christmas)and evenings without overtime or days of in lieu as it has to cost nothing for the actual move to take place.

Are you saying that there will be no payment at all?

vinba · 10-11-2009, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by fainéant

Are you saying that there will be no payment at all?

None at all because there is 'no budget for it'. We'd be expected to move heavy racks and It equipment. It's making my blood boil at the moment. The bloke in charge is only concerned about making himself look good to management by providing a 'zero cost' move.

fainéant · 10-11-2009, 09:51

Clearly all of those involved or a significant number need to act collectively to negotiate with management. He may look good with a 'zero cost' move but he will not be popular if the move does not go ahead or incurs delay affecting the smooth operation of the business.

PamelaL · 10-11-2009, 09:51

My blood would be bloody boiling too vinba, it's boiling on your behalf at the minute.

Are you sure that's right? It sounds incredibly unfair. If you're sacked for refusing to work unpaid weekends I think you'd have a very good case for unfair dismissal.

My company moved and to cut down on costs we all did the moving but we did it during paid working hours and made a party of it.

vinba · 10-11-2009, 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by PamelaL

My blood would be bloody boiling too vinba, it's boiling on your behalf at the minute.

Are you sure that's right? It sounds incredibly unfair.

My company moved and to cut down on costs we all did the moving but we did it during working hours and made a party of it.

Ta Pamela. Don't let your blood boil please, it's bad for you. They're refusing to do it during company time as they want the staff to continue working. Also it won't be all the staff doing the move, just the IT department.

vinba · 10-11-2009, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by fainéant

Clearly all of those involved or a significant number need to act collectively to negotiate with management. He may look good with a 'zero cost' move but he will not be popular if the move does not go ahead or incurs delay affecting the smooth operation of the business.

We have to be out by a certain date so we have a tight deadline, ie doors will have their locks changed, etc. Arrghh. He hasn't even signed the lease on the new place yet, there's 8 weeks to go and they new premises is a shell. WTF!!!! It is also possible that we'll be expected to also take apart all the desks for 150 people, move them and put them back together again, over a weekend as well as moving all their IT equipment and setting it back up again. That's 5 of us, over a weekend....

fainéant · 10-11-2009, 10:07

A major IT move is complex enough without taking dismantling and rebuilding furniture as well. As the focus is IT related it could be reasonable to expect the IT department to be responsible. After all you will get the flack if the systems don't work again after the move and the business cannot operate. That said, it is never, ever a good idea to upset the IT department.

fluffyslippers · 10-11-2009, 10:14

That just sounds soo wrong to me, where I work overtime is voluntary and we are paid either time and a half for evenings or double time at the weekend.

Also we are not allowed to lift or move any item of either IT equipment or furniture unless we have had the relevant training because of health and safety issues.

Have a look at this, it might be helpful http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ff/DG_10028439

David ® · 10-11-2009, 10:18

What does your contract state regarding overtime? Are you salaried or hourly paid? How long have you been employed by this company?

vinba · 10-11-2009, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by fainéant

A major IT move is complex enough without taking dismantling and rebuilding furniture as well. As the focus is IT related it could be reasonable to expect the IT department to be responsible. After all you will get the flack if the systems don't work again after the move and the business cannot operate. That said, it is never, ever a good idea to upset the IT department.

He He, it gets better. His plan is:

We shut down all the servers (45 of them).
Remove the servers (including a blade enclosure that weighs 110kg) and put them somwehere
Remove the 14 Ups's that are in the racks
Dismantle the racks
Carry the racks to the new site
Reassemble the racks
Put the servers back in
Power them up and change their Ip addresses
Test they are working
Go back to the old office
Clear the consultants desks of IT equipment and their paperwork
Dismantle their desks
Move their desks and It equipment to new office
Reassemble their desks
Setup their It equipment and test it

All over a weekend. We're going to be expected to work Friday through to Sunday night solidly and then be in at work at 8.00 as usual on Monday to hand hold any problems from the move. Seriously considering handing my notice in...

vinba · 10-11-2009, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by David ®

What does your contract state regarding overtime? Are you salaried or hourly paid? How long have you been employed by this company?

My contract states I get paid overtime. The company refuses to pay it as I'm a 'manager'. I've been there 9 years.

David ® · 10-11-2009, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinba

My contract states I get paid overtime. The company refuses to pay it as I'm a 'manager'. I've been there 9 years.

When did you last do overtime and was you paid for it?

vinba · 10-11-2009, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by David ®

When did you last do overtime and was you paid for it?

Been doing work from home in the evenings and weekends for a number of months and they've refused to pay overtime for it.

fainéant · 10-11-2009, 10:28

OP, you need some light relief:

Dilbert: "At first I thought you committed me to an impossible deadline. But I have a theoretical solution. It involves flying around the earth so fast that I travel back to the past."
Pointy-haired Boss: "And then you'll have enough time?"
Dilbert: "No, then I'll give your parents this pamphlet on contraception."

vinba · 10-11-2009, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by fainéant

OP, you need some light relief:

Dilbert: "At first I thought you committed me to an impossible deadline. But I have a theoretical solution. It involves flying around the earth so fast that I travel back to the past."
Pointy-haired Boss: "And then you'll have enough time?"
Dilbert: "No, then I'll give your parents this pamphlet on contraception."

Thanks. Needed that!

vinba · 10-11-2009, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluffyslippers

That just sounds soo wrong to me, where I work overtime is voluntary and we are paid either time and a half for evenings or double time at the weekend.

Also we are not allowed to lift or move any item of either IT equipment or furniture unless we have had the relevant training because of health and safety issues.

Have a look at this, it might be helpful http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ff/DG_10028439

Thank you for the link. Will have a good read. He hasn't even asked us if we're OK to work those weekends. He's just assumed that we'll be fine with it and has started making plans.

The Deebster · 10-11-2009, 11:51

What they are asking you to do sounds crazy! Its just not possible to do this - I've been involved in an office move before and we did work the weekend (paid overtime for it) but it involved loads of people and professional movers and we still weren't ready for Monday morning!

I also think what they are asking you to do contravenes european working time regulations, see www.hse.gov.uk as they have the regulations.

I would go to your manager (or his manager if he's not listening) and set out clearly what they are expecting you to do and point out its not possible. If you are a member of a union then it might be an idea to consult them.

Good Luck!

eng123 · 10-11-2009, 12:34

Ask them if they are putting people through lifting courses. Legally, they can only ask people to lift a certain weight. Health and Safety states that by law they have to provide training.

The other thing is, are they asking women to lift? If a woman is pregnant and asked to lift something it could cause harm to a baby. The thing about that is, legally a woman doesn't have to notify her employer until a certain time into the pregnancy that she is pregnant. So by asking a woman to lift who is of child bearing age, they could be putting her in the position of having to tell them she is pregnant prior to her legally having to do so, that way they are breaking employment law.

woodbush · 10-11-2009, 12:45

If the 5 of you refuse to do it in the timescale and unpaid they're stuffed anyway.
How will they get someone else with your technical knowledge do do it for nothing.
I suppose in this economic climate they think to protect your jobs you will do it for nothing and be grateful.

Go higher up the tree and tell them you are not prepared to do it.

ACAS are the people to speak to regarding possible unfair dismissal and other work/contract issues.

ACAS

10-11-2009, 08:55	#1
vinba Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Class 971 Shchuka-B Gepard Services: Sky+,16mb broadband, V+,10mb Cable. Posts: 3,453	Company Move Hi, Just wondering who's in the right here. Our company is moving in January and wants it to be as cheap as possible. They've told us that we'll have to to work the 4 weekends before the move (including Christmas)and evenings without overtime or days of in lieu as it has to cost nothing for the actual move to take place. We'll also be expected to work our normal hours. We have no say in the matter and it's a disciplinary offence to refuse. Can they actually do this? They're expecting us to also move heavy bits of equipment as they don't want to pay for a removal firm. Can we refuse without getting the sack?

10-11-2009, 09:09	#2
Charlie Coo Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 8,569	I don't know legally where you stand but that is crazy.

10-11-2009, 09:51	#6
fainéant Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,363	Clearly all of those involved or a significant number need to act collectively to negotiate with management. He may look good with a 'zero cost' move but he will not be popular if the move does not go ahead or incurs delay affecting the smooth operation of the business.

10-11-2009, 09:51	#7
PamelaL Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Worcestershire Posts: 54,960	My blood would be bloody boiling too vinba, it's boiling on your behalf at the minute. Are you sure that's right? It sounds incredibly unfair. If you're sacked for refusing to work unpaid weekends I think you'd have a very good case for unfair dismissal. My company moved and to cut down on costs we all did the moving but we did it during paid working hours and made a party of it.

10-11-2009, 10:07	#10
fainéant Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,363	A major IT move is complex enough without taking dismantling and rebuilding furniture as well. As the focus is IT related it could be reasonable to expect the IT department to be responsible. After all you will get the flack if the systems don't work again after the move and the business cannot operate. That said, it is never, ever a good idea to upset the IT department.

10-11-2009, 10:14	#11
fluffyslippers Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Blackpool Posts: 19	That just sounds soo wrong to me, where I work overtime is voluntary and we are paid either time and a half for evenings or double time at the weekend. Also we are not allowed to lift or move any item of either IT equipment or furniture unless we have had the relevant training because of health and safety issues. Have a look at this, it might be helpful http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ff/DG_10028439

10-11-2009, 10:18	#12
David ® Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 127	What does your contract state regarding overtime? Are you salaried or hourly paid? How long have you been employed by this company?

10-11-2009, 10:28	#17
fainéant Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,363	OP, you need some light relief: Dilbert: "At first I thought you committed me to an impossible deadline. But I have a theoretical solution. It involves flying around the earth so fast that I travel back to the past." Pointy-haired Boss: "And then you'll have enough time?" Dilbert: "No, then I'll give your parents this pamphlet on contraception."

10-11-2009, 11:51	#20
The Deebster Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Gender: Female Location: Nottingham Services: Virgin Posts: 315	What they are asking you to do sounds crazy! Its just not possible to do this - I've been involved in an office move before and we did work the weekend (paid overtime for it) but it involved loads of people and professional movers and we still weren't ready for Monday morning! I also think what they are asking you to do contravenes european working time regulations, see www.hse.gov.uk as they have the regulations. I would go to your manager (or his manager if he's not listening) and set out clearly what they are expecting you to do and point out its not possible. If you are a member of a union then it might be an idea to consult them. Good Luck!

10-11-2009, 12:34	#21
eng123 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,822	Ask them if they are putting people through lifting courses. Legally, they can only ask people to lift a certain weight. Health and Safety states that by law they have to provide training. The other thing is, are they asking women to lift? If a woman is pregnant and asked to lift something it could cause harm to a baby. The thing about that is, legally a woman doesn't have to notify her employer until a certain time into the pregnancy that she is pregnant. So by asking a woman to lift who is of child bearing age, they could be putting her in the position of having to tell them she is pregnant prior to her legally having to do so, that way they are breaking employment law.

10-11-2009, 12:45	#22
woodbush Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Location: Scottish Borders Services: AOL Broadband. Sky TV. Freeview TV Posts: 2,502	If the 5 of you refuse to do it in the timescale and unpaid they're stuffed anyway. How will they get someone else with your technical knowledge do do it for nothing. I suppose in this economic climate they think to protect your jobs you will do it for nothing and be grateful. Go higher up the tree and tell them you are not prepared to do it. ACAS are the people to speak to regarding possible unfair dismissal and other work/contract issues. ACAS