Sky Dish: Inside window? - Sky+

donelson · 22-02-2005, 10:35

I may be moving to an apartment block which does not allow Sky dishes mounted outside the flats....

Since I own a Sky+ box, I'm not keen on having it sit idle.

Ideas, anyone?

Thanks
William Donelson

donelson · 22-02-2005, 18:13

I have been told that the apartments have a "community dish". How does this work? Do I have to pay extra or run cables?

RMG · 22-02-2005, 20:15

Most communal systems are set up so that only one cable is sent to each apartment. You will still be able to use your Sky+, but not the dual recording facility.Also you will need to speak to the management company to ensure that the feed to your flat is turned on. Some of them make a charge for this. If you have a window that faces the right direction it might be possible to set up a dish there, it has been done, but if the window is double glazed and has a heat reflective coating it won't.

donelson · 22-02-2005, 22:10

Thanks. I've also discovered they don't take cats, so that place is out anyway!

seancfagan · 23-02-2005, 02:10

No Sky and no cats!, you're right to forget that place.

We've had two tabby moggies for 12 years, the're still sometimes more fun than just watching TV.

good luck finding a Sky and cat friendly home.

ALanJ · 23-02-2005, 08:31

Although in gerenal comunal dishes only have one cable run depending on the number of flats and the system in place and the ducting in the building it may be possible to have a second feed to your flat at a cost. It will depend on the building and the people who installed and maintain the communal system.

The reality is however that unless you can persuade them to give you a second feed that you will be heading for an uphill battle.

donelson · 24-02-2005, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALanJ

Although in gerenal comunal dishes only have one cable run ...

I am moving (I hope) into a nice new apartment building, very modern, but the two RF connectors on the wall says "satellite" and "TV". I assume the sat feed is for Sky... ???

If I plug my Sky+ box into this (can I?) what will happen? What will I be able to do?

Will I get one channel recording, plus recorded-playback? (i.e. single tuner, but otherwise fully featured?)

Thanks

ALanJ · 24-02-2005, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelson

I am moving (I hope) into a nice new apartment building, very modern, but the two RF connectors on the wall says "satellite" and "TV". I assume the sat feed is for Sky... ???

If I plug my Sky+ box into this (can I?) what will happen? What will I be able to do?

Will I get one channel recording, plus recorded-playback? (i.e. single tuner, but otherwise fully featured?)

Thanks

You only have one feed - if you look in this forum you will see discussions on what you can do with a single feed and how to get the best of it.

generally if you have a SINGLE wall socket with 3 plugs in it you will discover that there is just a single cable plugged into the back.

So you only have a single feed for Sky. There has been discussion that there is a device to put two feeds onto a single cable but it does cost over £100 (again check one of the several other disucussions about this for full details).

donelson · 24-02-2005, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALanJ

You only have one feed - if you look in this forum you will see discussions on what you can do with a single feed and how to get the best of it.

Since SEARCH is *still* broken, could you give me a reference? Thanks.

ALanJ · 24-02-2005, 18:12

Having done some more research (and apologies for search being down) here is a selection of info that might be useful:

If you only have one feed suggestions have been made to plug the feed into the No 1 LNB and then set a manual repeating recording in the planner for every day from 04:00 to 03:59 (ie 24hrs) on a radio channel. Because although it will always fail to record it will switch any recordings you make onto the No 1 LNB which is attached. You can obviously only do one thing at a time but it should work according to reports - you will need to check this out as I have not tried it and with the search down this is a problem.

In addition having some some research if you can get another feed of the SMATV system in your block you could use a Johannsen stacker-destaker which can be found on their web site at:

http://www.johansson.be/htmen/stacke...f=9633KIT%20UK

and the PDF for installation gives all the technical details

There is a UK one and a general one for SMATV installations.

For anyone interested in more a quick search on Goggle shows a few people selling these on the web they are not check £130-£150 but they will do the job if there is no other solution.

http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page1b.htm
http://www.dastv.co.uk/DAS/Products/...?ProductID=305
http://www.parabolic.co.uk/catalog/p...roducts_id=193

This feeds two satellite feeds for PVR type products down a single cable along (in the SMATV version) with TV and radio signals. Although this is quite expensive if you can not get another cable from the headend in your building to your TV point it will solve the problem.

It still requires that there is a spare satellite feed on the SMATV system and you will need to get access to it from your landlord and the people who install and maintain the system.

ALan

donelson · 24-02-2005, 23:19

Alan

Thanks very much for your suggestions. However, I am not quite clear on one point: If I do get another feed from the headend in my building, will I need to do anything special. (Sorry if I've misunderstood an existing answer here).

donelson · 24-02-2005, 23:22

Also, since my new apartment will be on the top floor of the building, I have noted that there is an attic space just behind a panel door in the ceiling of one of my rooms. The roof and rafters are quite visible in this space.... So, could I put a dish in the attic space? How much would a wood & tar shingle roof attenuate the signals? Could this work better than other solutions?

Thanks!

donelson · 24-02-2005, 23:26

Ahem. Third question:

Can I buy and install my own dish? What does Sky say about this? Would I need a special tool/instrument to align the dish properly?

(I really like my Sky Plus system, and want to figure out a way to keep it).

seancfagan · 25-02-2005, 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelson

So, could I put a dish in the attic space? How much would a wood & tar shingle roof attenuate the signals?

Hi William, is this new apartment cat friendly?

I posted on your other thread http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...d.php?t=195810 before making the connection with this thread.

A dish in the attic is a non starter. Apart from access and permission issues, the dish really needs a clear line of sight to the satellites. Even a tree branch will screw up the signal so your wood and tar shingle roof is extremely unlikely to be transparent to the very weak signal. Sorry, I know you probably hoped it was the ideal answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelson

Can I buy and install my own dish? What does Sky say about this? Would I need a special tool/instrument to align the dish properly.

Yes, you can buy your own dish. It is still a free country despite Mr Blair's efforts (moderators, I hope I am not breaking any no political comments rule here) Cant you take the dish you already own or is it easier to leave it for new owner?

Yes you can install it yourself if you have enough diy skills, but do you really want to work at the top of an apartment building? Sky wont care, it happens all the time. You will need to contact them to advise change of address and maybe change of regional TV area so they can update your card.

You can buy a satellite meter quite cheaply, £10-20 on ebay. Some people say you can use the meters in the Sky+ box, others say they are too insensitive, too slow to react, and how do you see them from the top of a ladder (have someone else help and shout instructions up at you) I have recabled my dish, a doddle but I was only working at 1st floor height and the dish was already there. I plan to move the dish soon and I have therefore bought a meter and I will give it a go. Again I repeat I am not going high and I have the existing dish install as a guide.

You have got lots to think about.

ALanJ · 25-02-2005, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelson

Alan

Thanks very much for your suggestions. However, I am not quite clear on one point: If I do get another feed from the headend in my building, will I need to do anything special. (Sorry if I've misunderstood an existing answer here).

If you get a second feed from the SMATV head end in your building - and then use a stacker destaker you do NOT need to do anything else.

The Stacker Destaker is specifically desigend for this situation for STBs with TWO independent inputs but where you only have a single feed from the SMATV distribution system to your flat.

Hope that explains.

As has been said you can install your own disk or get an independent installer to do so you then just plug in your Sky (+) box (if it is a new box you need to get Sky to initialise and marry the box to the card you will have got from Sky for your subscription) all can be done without Sky though often Sky will be the least inexpensive solution.

donelson · 25-02-2005, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALanJ

The Stacker Destaker is specifically desigend for this situation for STBs with TWO independent inputs but where you only have a single feed from the SMATV distribution system to your flat.

So, the stacker goes at the head end and puts two signals onto one coax, and then the DE-stacker goes in the apartment and splits the single RF feed into the two SKY inputs?

And this will then give me FULL Sky Plus functionality? Recording two channels while watching a recorded programme, etc?

I didn't realise the stacker-de was TWO pieces of kit.

Thanks

donelson · 25-02-2005, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by seancfagan

Yes you can install it yourself if you have enough diy skills, but do you really want to work at the top of an apartment building? Sky wont care, it happens all the time. You will need to contact them to advise change of address and maybe change of regional TV area so they can update your card.

You can buy a satellite meter quite cheaply, £10-20 on ebay.

So I can take the dish I have now? Won't Sky complain?

Do I need to contact Sky & switch account BEFORE I install/test the dish at the new location?

Thanks

chippo · 25-02-2005, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelson

So I can take the dish I have now? Won't Sky complain?

Do I need to contact Sky & switch account BEFORE I install/test the dish at the new location?

Thanks

It's your dish, so you can do what you like with it!

You need to advise SKY of your new address and phone number for billing purposes. SKY will only check the connection to the phone line if you have multiroom.

I'd be more concerned about the T&C's of the apartment block - they often don't allow tennants to attach anything to the exterior of the building. I would check thouroughly before you even think about mounting a dish on the roof.

donelson · 25-02-2005, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippo

I would check thouroughly before you even think about mounting a dish on the roof.

No way will I put anything on the Roof or outside of the building. And the attic seems to be a non-starter. The apartment I've decided on is northwest-facing, so no view through the window of the satellite. Looks like dwindling options...

I'm going to track down the company that deals with the CATV system in the building...

donelson · 25-02-2005, 13:27

The apartment tech management only offer the single feed, no exceptions, no additions. But at least they admit they made a mistake in not anticipating the dual coax requirement for Sky+...

If I want to use a Stacker-De, will I need access to the head end?

pcbbc · 25-02-2005, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelson

If I want to use a Stacker-De, will I need access to the head end?

Yes, stacker goes at head end, de-stacker goes with the Sky+ box.

ALanJ · 25-02-2005, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelson

So, the stacker goes at the head end and puts two signals onto one coax, and then the DE-stacker goes in the apartment and splits the single RF feed into the two SKY inputs?

And this will then give me FULL Sky Plus functionality? Recording two channels while watching a recorded programme, etc?

I didn't realise the stacker-de was TWO pieces of kit.

Thanks

That is exactly correct - the bit to go in the head end (STACKER) is unplowed and connects 2 independent Sky Feeds - on one of them can also be multiplexed your TV and Radio signal. It places these onto a single cable.

The DE-STACKER goes in your apartment and depending on the model you have connects to the single cable coming from your wall and presents TWO independent Sky satellite connections and a TV and FM connection.

This will give FULL Sky+ functionality.

the version designed for SMATV systems can be found
http://www.johansson.be/htmen/stacke...hp?ref=9639KIT
slightly different to the UK model which is designed to go on the roof where you can put the QUAD LNB but can't run a second cable to the Sky+ box.

You will see the SMATV version has extra connections for TV and FM on the box that you plug into the mains in your apartment.

ALanJ · 25-02-2005, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelson

The apartment tech management only offer the single feed, no exceptions, no additions. But at least they admit they made a mistake in not anticipating the dual coax requirement for Sky+...

If I want to use a Stacker-De, will I need access to the head end?

It may be worth talking to them as using a stacker / destaker there is no extra cabling required just an additional port on the multi-switch thing in the head end (sorry don't know the technical term). If there isn't a spare you will need to persuade them to install one which ofcourse will cost even more but as it will generate another 4-8-16 ports there might be posibilities to share this with others in the bllocak that might want Sky+.

The reality is that developers did not think about this and it is suddenly a problem but I'm sure that many installeds would (for a price) be happy to add capacity and use a device like the stacker to keep the owners happy but they probably don't know how easy it is to do.

So you might have to (a) persuade them with lots of discussion and (b) pay them.

My mother is about to move into a block with exactly this problem and I am meeting with the installer next week to discuss the issues will tell you what they suggest

donelson · 25-02-2005, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALanJ

My mother is about to move into a block with exactly this problem and I am meeting with the installer next week to discuss the issues will tell you what they suggest

Alan, thanks. I hope it's good news !

William

seancfagan · 25-02-2005, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelson

....But at least they admit they made a mistake in not anticipating the dual coax requirement for Sky?

This is a very widespread problem. Builders build to a price, ditto electricians etc. There are lots of tales of woe out there along similar lines.

Even if you are lucky enough to get enough cables, there is no guarantee they are the correct cables. To your average electrical sub contractor (no offense meant), sweating hard installing all the wires a new building requires, "co-ax is that brown stuff isn't it. I've got a few reels of that in the back of the van, works fine with satellitte doesn't it."

Please don't hit back at me on this, I am sure there are lots of well informed, diligent sparks out there as well.

22-02-2005, 10:35	#1
donelson Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London Services: Sky+ & Broadband, Mac/PC. FREE Online 360° virtual tour at Taj-Mahal.net Posts: 1,526	Sky Dish: Inside window? I may be moving to an apartment block which does not allow Sky dishes mounted outside the flats.... Since I own a Sky+ box, I'm not keen on having it sit idle. Ideas, anyone? Thanks William Donelson

22-02-2005, 18:13	#2
donelson Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London Services: Sky+ & Broadband, Mac/PC. FREE Online 360° virtual tour at Taj-Mahal.net Posts: 1,526	I have been told that the apartments have a "community dish". How does this work? Do I have to pay extra or run cables?

22-02-2005, 20:15	#3
RMG Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Services: Sky+,Sky,AOL Platinum Posts: 577	Most communal systems are set up so that only one cable is sent to each apartment. You will still be able to use your Sky+, but not the dual recording facility.Also you will need to speak to the management company to ensure that the feed to your flat is turned on. Some of them make a charge for this. If you have a window that faces the right direction it might be possible to set up a dish there, it has been done, but if the window is double glazed and has a heat reflective coating it won't.

22-02-2005, 22:10	#4
donelson Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London Services: Sky+ & Broadband, Mac/PC. FREE Online 360° virtual tour at Taj-Mahal.net Posts: 1,526	Thanks. I've also discovered they don't take cats, so that place is out anyway!

23-02-2005, 02:10	#5
seancfagan Banned User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cloud Nine and 1/2 Services: Anything in a skirt, and showing Minimum Respect. Check my new picture. Posts: 1,800	No Sky and no cats!, you're right to forget that place. We've had two tabby moggies for 12 years, the're still sometimes more fun than just watching TV. good luck finding a Sky and cat friendly home.

23-02-2005, 08:31	#6
ALanJ Digital Spy Staff Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: London Services: SKY Digital, DTT Freeview, Sky+, TiVo Posts: 2,948 Blog Entries: 21	Although in gerenal comunal dishes only have one cable run depending on the number of flats and the system in place and the ducting in the building it may be possible to have a second feed to your flat at a cost. It will depend on the building and the people who installed and maintain the communal system. The reality is however that unless you can persuade them to give you a second feed that you will be heading for an uphill battle.

24-02-2005, 18:12	#10
ALanJ Digital Spy Staff Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: London Services: SKY Digital, DTT Freeview, Sky+, TiVo Posts: 2,948 Blog Entries: 21	Having done some more research (and apologies for search being down) here is a selection of info that might be useful: If you only have one feed suggestions have been made to plug the feed into the No 1 LNB and then set a manual repeating recording in the planner for every day from 04:00 to 03:59 (ie 24hrs) on a radio channel. Because although it will always fail to record it will switch any recordings you make onto the No 1 LNB which is attached. You can obviously only do one thing at a time but it should work according to reports - you will need to check this out as I have not tried it and with the search down this is a problem. In addition having some some research if you can get another feed of the SMATV system in your block you could use a Johannsen stacker-destaker which can be found on their web site at: http://www.johansson.be/htmen/stacke...f=9633KIT%20UK and the PDF for installation gives all the technical details There is a UK one and a general one for SMATV installations. For anyone interested in more a quick search on Goggle shows a few people selling these on the web they are not check £130-£150 but they will do the job if there is no other solution. http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page1b.htm http://www.dastv.co.uk/DAS/Products/...?ProductID=305 http://www.parabolic.co.uk/catalog/p...roducts_id=193 This feeds two satellite feeds for PVR type products down a single cable along (in the SMATV version) with TV and radio signals. Although this is quite expensive if you can not get another cable from the headend in your building to your TV point it will solve the problem. It still requires that there is a spare satellite feed on the SMATV system and you will need to get access to it from your landlord and the people who install and maintain the system. ALan

24-02-2005, 23:19	#11
donelson Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London Services: Sky+ & Broadband, Mac/PC. FREE Online 360° virtual tour at Taj-Mahal.net Posts: 1,526	Alan Thanks very much for your suggestions. However, I am not quite clear on one point: If I do get another feed from the headend in my building, will I need to do anything special. (Sorry if I've misunderstood an existing answer here).

24-02-2005, 23:22	#12
donelson Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London Services: Sky+ & Broadband, Mac/PC. FREE Online 360° virtual tour at Taj-Mahal.net Posts: 1,526	Also, since my new apartment will be on the top floor of the building, I have noted that there is an attic space just behind a panel door in the ceiling of one of my rooms. The roof and rafters are quite visible in this space.... So, could I put a dish in the attic space? How much would a wood & tar shingle roof attenuate the signals? Could this work better than other solutions? Thanks!

24-02-2005, 23:26	#13
donelson Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London Services: Sky+ & Broadband, Mac/PC. FREE Online 360° virtual tour at Taj-Mahal.net Posts: 1,526	Ahem. Third question: Can I buy and install my own dish? What does Sky say about this? Would I need a special tool/instrument to align the dish properly? (I really like my Sky Plus system, and want to figure out a way to keep it).

25-02-2005, 13:27	#20
donelson Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London Services: Sky+ & Broadband, Mac/PC. FREE Online 360° virtual tour at Taj-Mahal.net Posts: 1,526	The apartment tech management only offer the single feed, no exceptions, no additions. But at least they admit they made a mistake in not anticipating the dual coax requirement for Sky+... If I want to use a Stacker-De, will I need access to the head end?