[COLINSTONES]

I have an visa electron debit card but I can`t pay of goods on open or any shopping channels. Too now as I was looking at bid tv and by some luck. They can so if they can why can`t the big boys. Do any one have any info on this

[Mark Ramsden]

Originally posted by COLINSTONES
I have an visa electron debit card but I can`t pay of goods on open or any shopping channels. Too now as I was looking at bid tv and by some luck. They can so if they can why can`t the big boys. Do any one have any info on this

I'm surprised BiidUp is accepting Electron cards, more to the point do they say theu support Electron cards or have you simply bought something and the card was accepted ?

The reason I ask is that the way these cards work is fairly complex. As you know there are 3 main types of card Credit Cards, Charge Cards and Debit cards. Charge cards are Amex and Diners and are processed seperately to credit / debit cards.

I am ignoring floor limits here as they muddy the waters even more.

Credit cards split into 3 main suppliers Visa, Mastercard and Duet (Creation) When a trader wants to accept credit cards they sign a contract with a Bank (usually) who will validate transactions and at the end of the day will pass these tranaction onto the card supplier for settlement.

Debit cards work in the same way, however when a transaction is authorised the amount is instantly flagged as beign removed from the persons account.

When a retailer signs the agreement with the bank they have options in how they are going to process the cards, This is either customer present, customer not present, customer not present mail order (which also covers Internet purchases).

A customer present agreement requires that the card is swiped (ior the number keyed in) whilst the customer is there and the customer signs agreement to the transaction. The Not present option allows telephone bookings etc to be taken. The mail order option basically works the same way as not present but there is added security for the purchaser (in as much if the customer refutes the charge the retailer has to refund it and then try and prove it was a valid transaction)

Now onto the Electron card, this is a special kind of debit card which the banks insist has to be swiped, and so therefore can only be used in a customer present environment. Technically if the card number is keyed or is generated from a customer not present transaction the transaction should be declined by the authorising bank.

To further this, it is the intention of Electon to start issuing cards with both the magnetic strip and a smart chip in the near future without the acciunt number embossed on the card. This will make it impossible to use the card for any kind of not present transaction.`

I'm sorry this reply has been rambling and I hope it clears it up.

If bidup accept Electron cards I would suspect it is in error.

[lordbyte2000]

This cant be the case as i have visa electron and i can use it over the net to shop ANYWHERE in america and they accept it and also some uk web companys do as well inc the slammer.

[Nikhil]

Are you guys all under 18. If not why don't you just go out and get a switch card and make it much easier!!

[Mark Ramsden]

Originally posted by lordbyte2000
This cant be the case as i have visa electron and i can use it over the net to shop ANYWHERE in america and they accept it and also some uk web companys do as well inc the slammer.

This is because they are being treated as standard VISA debit cards. However I stand by my initial statement - to the pont that one of the clearing banks I have configured systems for have told me this is the case.

[COLINSTONES]

GO TO http://www.VISA.COM AND LOOK UP DEBIT CARD VISA ELECTRON
IT SAYS YOU CAN USE TO ON THE NET BUT MY BANK BARCLAYS INFO LINE SAY I CAN`T BUT MY INFO BOOK SAY I CAN SO IT MUST BE AN BIG MIX UP OR WHAT BY THE WAY I AM 19 BUT MY BANK WILL NOT GIVE ME AN switch card

[COLINSTONES]

MY CARD SAYS ELECTRONIC USE ONLY SO THE BANK CAN SEE IT I HAVE ANY MONEY TO PAY AND BY THE WAY IF THEY START USEING smart chipS CANT THEY USE THE INTERACTIVE PORT ON THE DIGIBOX

[Spoofarama]

Abroad Visa Electron is treated as a normal Visa card. On the net, Streets Online say they accept Visa Electron and I've used my card with them many times. Also WH Smith Online say you can't but in reality you can! Also, the Barclays Visa Electron user guide booklet has a whole section on using it online, giving security tips etc!

[lja]

Well, sorry if I've completely missed this topic, I haven't visited for a while, but this is a very big co-incidence.

I have recently got a Visa Electron card myself, and in my banks hand book, it goes on about how you can only use it in shops where the sign is present, and doesn't mention using it online.

Then I had a look at the visa website, which says you can use it anywhere, which left me somewhat puzzled. Then, when Ch.4 had that big brother auction on it, the Visa Electron graphic was on screen and they specifically said you could use it.

The same is true of bidup.tv, the actual visa electron graphic comes on screen when they say ways to pay.

So now I don't know!!

Liam

[lja]

Forgot this from the streets online website:

[list][*]A Solo card is a member of the Switch family and thus should be entered as a Switch card.[*]When using a Switch/Solo card please enter the long payment number (normally 18 or 19 digits depending on the card issuer) displayed in the centre of the card, not the smaller account number at the base of the card. [*]You need only enter an issue number for a Switch card.[*]If your Switch card has no issue number then chose the option of 'none'. Some Visa Delta cards have issue numbers - do not enter this, as it is not necessary and may cause payment authorisation problems when processing your order.[*]Visa Electron should be entered as a Visa Card.[*]Visa Delta is separate to Visa and thus if the field of Visa is chosen the system will reject the card. Please enter this as a Delta card. If you are unsure whether your card is a Delta, then if the card has a Delta symbol anywhere on the card (normally on the back in the right hand corner) then it is a Delta.

Which is interesting!

[lja]

Yet more info!

I've already done quite a bit of digging around the shoping websites, but checking the new(ish) WHSmith website says the following:

We accept payment by the following cards: Visa, Mastercard, American Express, JCB, Switch and Delta. Unfortunately we are unable to accept Solo and Electron cards.

This is the first one which specifically says that they don't accept them that I've seen.

A question for Mark, is solo not treated as an actual "normal" debit card, and therefore like electron?

Liam

[Spoofarama]

If you want to use Electron on the net but can't see evidence that you can, give it a try anyway, and if they request card type try Visa. Worked for me with WH Smith (OT but btw the book I bought was the critically acclaimed "White Teeth" by Zadie Smith - probably the best novel I've ever read!)

[Paul Kerton X]

It depends on the shop.
For security reasons (under 18's) it is generally not accepted

[rusburns]

Just get a new bank account with Nat West or HSBC and get a SOLO card most shops, online shops and open shops take it.

[bnb]

As far as I understand it, the problem with "Electron" cards occurs because it is a UK-only product; if the retailer you are dealing with issued the card (Barclays, for example) they will process the transaction because it is local.

Most of the banks subscribe directly to the Visa, Mastercard or Amex networks, so if they issue you a UK card, they will probably use these for "Electron" card transactions abroad.

But these networks cant be used for UK transactions, because the banks won't pay the interconnect transactions charge.

[celestial]

I run a mail-order/internet business and we aren't allowed to take Electron cards. We can only process them if the customer comes to the premises and we are able to swipe the card through the terminal. Otherwise it's not possible! I don't know whether the rules have changed recently though.

[John Webb]

Originally posted by Nikhil
Are you guys all under 18. If not why don't you just go out and get a switch card and make it much easier!!

This is not true as I am about to aply for a Switch card as long as I earn over £500 amonth and I am 17!

The problem wiht Electron and Solo cards is that EVERY payment has to be authorised byt the bank / suplier and so shops / internet people are not keen on taking it. Having said that though I have been to a couple of sites and entered my SOLO card as a SWITCH card and got the goods.

John

[mrlipring]

http://www.scan.co.uk takes electron. while i'm here, can i just say that I bloody hate it!

I keep meaning to go see the bank about a new card (i'm 19, btw) but I ALWAYS forget. I was in today to see about a student account, but i'm apparently not a student cos it's only an HND i'm doing, and not a degree course.. grr...

[Mark Ramsden]

Originally posted by Spoofarama
Abroad Visa Electron is treated as a normal Visa card. On the net, Streets Online say they accept Visa Electron and I've used my card with them many times. Also WH Smith Online say you can't but in reality you can! Also, the Barclays Visa Electron user guide booklet has a whole section on using it online, giving security tips etc!

The problem is that the VISA Electron PAN (the leading 6 digits ofthe card number) falls into the VISA range. If you sconfigure a clearing system VISA will usually tell you that any card starting with 4 is a VISA card, however the electron cards also start with 4 so an old or poorly configured system will ccept Electron cards as VISA.

NatWest Streamline are the people who have told me abou Electron cards.

[Mark Ramsden]

Originally posted by lja
Yet more info!

I've already done quite a bit of digging around the shoping websites, but checking the new(ish) WHSmith website says the following:

This is the first one which specifically says that they don't accept them that I've seen.

A question for Mark, is solo not treated as an actual "normal" debit card, and therefore like electron?

Liam

SOLO is slightly different, as it is pointed out further down this thread SOLO cards *have* to be authorised on-line for every transaction, a shop cannot have a floor limit for the card. This add expense to the retailer

[Mark Ramsden]

Originally posted by bnb
As far as I understand it, the problem with "Electron" cards occurs because it is a UK-only product; if the retailer you are dealing with issued the card (Barclays, for example) they will process the transaction because it is local.

Most of the banks subscribe directly to the Visa, Mastercard or Amex networks, so if they issue you a UK card, they will probably use these for "Electron" card transactions abroad.

But these networks cant be used for UK transactions, because the banks won't pay the interconnect transactions charge.

Again this comes down to the fact that the international authorisation systems treat the Electron card number as a standard Visa card.

I have to say in older systems I have worked with where Electron cards have been accepted as standard Visa cards I have yet to see a bamk refuse to honor the payment at setlement even if the transaction is flagged as customer not present

[Mark Ramsden]

Originally posted by celestial
I run a mail-order/internet business and we aren't allowed to take Electron cards. We can only process them if the customer comes to the premises and we are able to swipe the card through the terminal. Otherwise it's not possible! I don't know whether the rules have changed recently though.

Quite the reverse. It is only recently that we have been getting problems from the banks for accepting Electron cards in a customer not present scenario. This first came to light when I was setting up a clearing system for an Internet booking company.

As I stated earlier the reason the cards have to be swiped is that eventually they will be issed without any embossed number on the front of the card. The name "Electron" i supposed to denote that it is an Electronic cash card.

[Spoofarama]

Originally posted by bnb
As far as I understand it, the problem with "Electron" cards occurs because it is a UK-only product; if the retailer you are dealing with issued the card (Barclays, for example) they will process the transaction because it is local.

Most of the banks subscribe directly to the Visa, Mastercard or Amex networks, so if they issue you a UK card, they will probably use these for "Electron" card transactions abroad.

But these networks cant be used for UK transactions, because the banks won't pay the interconnect transactions charge.

Really? In Portugal this year I noticed that all shops accepting cards had a big Visa Electron sticker alongside the other cards!

[Mark Ramsden]

Originally posted by Spoofarama

Really? In Portugal this year I noticed that all shops accepting cards had a big Visa Electron sticker alongside the other cards!

That's not a problem. The cards would be swiped and the authorisation system would go on-line to validate the card. In Europe they would be treated as Visa cards that have to go on-line to auth.

[lja]

Originally posted by Mark Ramsden

SOLO is slightly different, as it is pointed out further down this thread SOLO cards *have* to be authorised on-line for every transaction, a shop cannot have a floor limit for the card. This add expense to the retailer

Sorry to keep asking questions, but you seem to know what you're talking about on this question, so I hope you don't mind!

If I we're in the high street, and wanted to buy something from a shop which had a visa sign in it's window but not an electron sign, could I still use it? (I know it has to be an electronic system, that's why it isn't embossed)

Thanks in advance,

Liam