Dell trouble - Computing and Networks

mysticegg · 13-03-2006, 08:46

Hi there,

A friend of mine runs a small business, just 2 people. They rang Dell and asked them what they would like to buy 2 new machines and whatever was necessary to network their computers together so that they could share files.
Basically Dell sold them 2 PCs (fine) and a PowerEdge Server!

Yes, my friends should have spoken to me first so that I could advise them what to buy but now they are lumbered with a Server.
Dell say that items bought under the 'Business Channel' are not elegible for refunds (under the Dell Terms and Conditions of Sale).
I've basically sent them a couple of emails on my friends' behalf telling them that they should not have been reccomended the Server in the first place.

They didn't even know what a Server was when they rang Dell - they feel taken advantage of.

Obviously it's 'Buyer beware' but what do you think my chances are of getting them a refund.
(I've been quoting this: http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/fa...legoodsact.htm)

Parker · 13-03-2006, 11:26

Do they have a proper business? Did they pay using a company credit card or a personal card?

Looking at the page you link to it clearly says "not buying in the course of a business" - but if they used a personal card they may be able to get away with saying it was actually a personal purchase, just from the business section.

Craig_E · 13-03-2006, 16:41

This was posted on the The Reg this afternoon- guess they read DS

As for the server purchase, surely the price was enough to alert the guy that maybe he should get a second quote, or at least someone's informed opinion?

TimmyRaa · 13-03-2006, 17:06

I'll take it off his hands for £50.

Marky · 13-03-2006, 17:22

Distance Selling Regulations might come into effect here as well... because it wasn't made in a shop or anything, that applies for business as well as personal purchases AFAIK...

peebly · 13-03-2006, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig_E

This was posted on the The Reg this afternoon- guess they read DS

As for the server purchase, surely the price was enough to alert the guy that maybe he should get a second quote, or at least someone's informed opinion?

yes, this post made it onto the register.

here it is

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03...ll_overssells/

dreaddan · 13-03-2006, 18:15

Distance selling regs say you can send it back with a full refund (not inc devivery).
Details can be found on this site http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/guide/distsell.htm

leo · 13-03-2006, 18:31

wow...just read this on the reg - whod'a think that our little (well...actually over 1 in 600 people in the UK are members) forum would have a headline on the reg

Leo

DJPT · 13-03-2006, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysticegg

Basically Dell sold them 2 PCs (fine) and a PowerEdge Server!

What did your friends agree to this for?!?!

People like this make me laugh. Why agree to buying something that you don't want and then moan about it afterwards, it's not as if Dell forced them to buy!

I mean, you wouldn't agree to buy something if you weren't sure what you were buying? It's not Dell's fault that your friends didn't have a clue what they were looking for.

njeo · 13-03-2006, 19:42

Which one... prices on the web start at £199 for a poweredge server.

John Oates at El Reg obviously doesn't have anything else to do except read DS... hmm, like me...

It isn't Dell's fault that they didn't know what they were looking but a server is total overkill between just two computers. Just goes to show how untrustworthy and dishonest sales reps can be - in any organisation. All they are bothered about is their commission. C'mon, any sales reps out there, disprove that stereotype!

Lucas Fan · 13-03-2006, 20:11

That's just outrageous. File and printer sharing comes as standard with any version of windows.

Vertigo1 · 13-03-2006, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreaddan

Distance selling regs say you can send it back with a full refund (not inc devivery).
Details can be found on this site http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/guide/distsell.htm

The DSR does NOT apply to business transactions, only to purchases by end users.

If he purchased it through the business channels of Dell then he's automatically waived any rights to a refund under the DSR.

Outcast_Aussie · 13-03-2006, 21:27

Actually this sounds like my boss !!

He just started up a HGV agency and asked me to do the IT stuff.

I said yeah ... Ok.

He had two laptops and a desktop which is kept on dial up for Bacs.

Had to persuade him to install broadband.

Rang me up and said he'd got it done. So went into office to find he got someone in to install it all.....

and I saw they had installed a Dell server !!

"Goes like a rockit (sic) Mate" he said !!

er... You aint got broadband at home anyway have you, So its your first time on ADSL speed.

It will fly compared to what your used to.

I give up !!

http://www.am-hgv-resources.co.uk

( My 16 year old daughter made the website)

dreaddan · 13-03-2006, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vertigo1

The DSR does NOT apply to business transactions, only to purchases by end users.

If he purchased it through the business channels of Dell then he's automatically waived any rights to a refund under the DSR.

I'm supprised! I though it covered everyone inc business.

Paul Reading · 13-03-2006, 22:33

If you business is unincorporated and has no more than two Partners then I believe you do qualify for protection under the Consumer Protection Act, of which the DSR are an addendum.

I read about this in the Sunday Times, a man tried to make a claim against his credit card company under the CPA because goods he ordered were never delivered as the company had gone bust holding his deposit. The credit company had to pay up because his business had only two partners and under that act there are treated as having the same rights as a married couple etc.

I cannot find a copy of the CPA on line to prove that this information is correct, but what I do know is that the Sunday Times surprised the credit card company who did not know of it's existence.

What I cannot say is if the law has since been changed removing this anomaly, after all why should a partnership of three have fewer rights than one of two?

cjunky · 14-03-2006, 08:59

I would say your friend has pretty good chances.

The key to dealing with companies like dell is to be aware that they operate on the premise that if they ignore/stonewall you 90% of their problems will simply go away.

Get legal advice. I’m fairly sure you have some grounds for protection under the CPA as the previous poster mentioned.

Likewise if your friend bought the equipment on any kind of credit tool such as a credit card, then so long as they are an individual, sole trader, partnership or unincorporated organisation the consumer credit act (1974) offers them protection that enables them to enlist their credit card in fighting their battle for them.

Basically you want to get a "without prejudice" letter citing that the goods are not fit for the purpose for which they were intended, namely connecting two machines.

You can also look at getting organisations such as watchdog involved since the one thing organisations dell likes least is negative publicity. Saying that getting El Reg to run a story was a pretty good step in the right direction.

Oh and if you talk to them by phone, make sure you are speaking to a manager or duty manager. However I would recommend sending the letter first then following it up.

(get the letter registered so you have proof of delivery)

If your friends organisation is a limited company, then both these acts offer no protection, however the negative publicity angle is still a pretty powerful thing. If Dell realise you aren’t going to back down and your willing to go to press chances are they will back down to make the problem go away.

Hope this helps.

Please paste a follow-up so we can see what happens.

cj

mysticegg · 14-03-2006, 12:12

Hi Guys,

I'm overwhelmed by the response to this!
I've been contacted by John Oates from Theregister and he's contacted Dell. Apparently, they are keen to speak to my friends!

Will post the minute I hear any news!

media guy · 14-03-2006, 16:36

Big brother and Freeview hacks, that's disgrace.... no-wait, he's totally right

Back on topic: I can't believe things like that actually happen, although I don't really know who is stupider Dell for not knowing that you don't need a server to share files or some who just pays 3 grand for a 2 PC office.

mysticegg · 14-03-2006, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by media guy

Big brother and Freeview hacks, that's disgrace.... no-wait, he's totally right

Back on topic: I can't believe things like that actually happen, although I don't really know who is stupider Dell for not knowing that you don't need a server to share files or some who just pays 3 grand for a 2 PC office.

Dell also told them that the server needed 2 network cards, one per machine!!! You've got to laugh. From what they've told me, Dell told them that they "needed" a Server.
Being very trusting people, they happily went along with it!

John Oates tells me that he has passed my friends' details on to the Dell Press Office. Hopefully we can get a satisfactory response out of them rather than 'template responses'.

mbhatton · 15-03-2006, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysticegg

Dell also told them that the server needed 2 network cards, one per machine!!!

Saves on the cost of a switch I suppose :-)

Simon1000 · 15-03-2006, 09:16

We have been having an ongoing battle with Dell for the last couple of months.

Our problem started out as very straightforward and we even got Dell to agree to exchange the purchase with us paying some more cash for a different model. Then the pain started. After a promise of exchange, they phone us back and say they can't do it! The reason, 'we're a business customer' (you do have to wonder why Dell think they can treat their business customers worse than their private customers, oh, yes the reason is that they are required to by European laws...).

The best bit was what then happened. The problem is a laptop with a screen that is basically unusable with Office and Internet Explorer (among other things), as the only way you can have a non-blurry resolution is to have a text size of about 3mm high). We had a couple of different people at Dell say that the laptop is 'optimal for image processing' and admit that the thing is 'not very good' for text-based applications. We wonder how many of their business customers are buying laptops for image processing and viewing....

Basically, they told us to go stuff it. Dell would not assume the financial loss on changing the product as it is our fault for ordering the goods.

So after wasting a load of time on this, we have now had to pass the thing to a lawyer.

brundles · 15-03-2006, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by media guy

Big brother and Freeview hacks, that's disgrace.... no-wait, he's totally right

Back on topic: I can't believe things like that actually happen, although I don't really know who is stupider Dell for not knowing that you don't need a server to share files or some who just pays 3 grand for a 2 PC office.

I don't think you can call the Dell sales people stupid - they're screwing the customer over in the sound knowledge that Dell's approach to business customers is 'tough'.

It's amazing the number of organisations who have a sales team that think along the lines of 'doesn't matter whether I'm selling the right thing or not, that's someone elses problem later on'. So long as they get their comission they're happy.

(Which is why my other halfs company has started imposing penalties on their sales staff when they deliberately ignore things like a note saying the customer isn't paying their bills already

).

Dan27 · 15-03-2006, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysticegg

Dell also told them that the server needed 2 network cards, one per machine!!! You've got to laugh. From what they've told me, Dell told them that they "needed" a Server.
Being very trusting people, they happily went along with it!

John Oates tells me that he has passed my friends' details on to the Dell Press Office. Hopefully we can get a satisfactory response out of them rather than 'template responses'.

Get your friend to say that a couple of their PDAs would be nice compensation for any trouble caused

but... they'll probably get a Dell PowerVault Tape Library sent to them..

mysticegg · 15-03-2006, 16:49

Hi,

An update to our case: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/200...rver_strategy/

My sincere thanks to Chris Rowe (possibly a DS member) for originally tipping 'TheRegister' off. As a result, Alarm bells are now ringing at Dell HQ!!!

JamesHartley · 15-03-2006, 22:12

I had a problem with a Dell server - long storey short - i was was told in confidence by a Dell rep - you need to should "mis sold product" IE Dell told me to buy it and so they recommended the wrong thing - i got the £4500 back.

13-03-2006, 08:46	#1
mysticegg Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Plymouth Services: Virgin XXXL, iMac 24" 2.8GHz, XBox360, Twitter:@mysticegg Posts: 2,131 Blog Entries: 2	Dell trouble Hi there, A friend of mine runs a small business, just 2 people. They rang Dell and asked them what they would like to buy 2 new machines and whatever was necessary to network their computers together so that they could share files. Basically Dell sold them 2 PCs (fine) and a PowerEdge Server! Yes, my friends should have spoken to me first so that I could advise them what to buy but now they are lumbered with a Server. Dell say that items bought under the 'Business Channel' are not elegible for refunds (under the Dell Terms and Conditions of Sale). I've basically sent them a couple of emails on my friends' behalf telling them that they should not have been reccomended the Server in the first place. They didn't even know what a Server was when they rang Dell - they feel taken advantage of. Obviously it's 'Buyer beware' but what do you think my chances are of getting them a refund. (I've been quoting this: http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/fa...legoodsact.htm)

15-03-2006, 09:16	#21
Simon1000 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1	Good luck to them We have been having an ongoing battle with Dell for the last couple of months. Our problem started out as very straightforward and we even got Dell to agree to exchange the purchase with us paying some more cash for a different model. Then the pain started. After a promise of exchange, they phone us back and say they can't do it! The reason, 'we're a business customer' (you do have to wonder why Dell think they can treat their business customers worse than their private customers, oh, yes the reason is that they are required to by European laws...). The best bit was what then happened. The problem is a laptop with a screen that is basically unusable with Office and Internet Explorer (among other things), as the only way you can have a non-blurry resolution is to have a text size of about 3mm high). We had a couple of different people at Dell say that the laptop is 'optimal for image processing' and admit that the thing is 'not very good' for text-based applications. We wonder how many of their business customers are buying laptops for image processing and viewing.... Basically, they told us to go stuff it. Dell would not assume the financial loss on changing the product as it is our fault for ordering the goods. So after wasting a load of time on this, we have now had to pass the thing to a lawyer.

15-03-2006, 22:12	#25
JamesHartley Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1	I found a way around it... I had a problem with a Dell server - long storey short - i was was told in confidence by a Dell rep - you need to should "mis sold product" IE Dell told me to buy it and so they recommended the wrong thing - i got the £4500 back.

13-03-2006, 11:26	#2
Parker Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 706	Do they have a proper business? Did they pay using a company credit card or a personal card? Looking at the page you link to it clearly says "not buying in the course of a business" - but if they used a personal card they may be able to get away with saying it was actually a personal purchase, just from the business section.

13-03-2006, 16:41	#3
Craig_E Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Birmingham; XboxLiveTag=in5ane Services: Sky HD, Bulldog 16MB, Xbox 360, 42" HDTV Plasma Posts: 3,695	This was posted on the The Reg this afternoon- guess they read DS As for the server purchase, surely the price was enough to alert the guy that maybe he should get a second quote, or at least someone's informed opinion?

13-03-2006, 17:06	#4
TimmyRaa Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Henley-on-Thames, UK Services: Humax 9200T PVR, Xbox 360, Wii, Be 20Mb ADSL Posts: 956	I'll take it off his hands for £50.

13-03-2006, 17:22	#5
Marky Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Wakefield, W Yorks Services: Sky HD / ESPN / o2BB / OSX Posts: 521	Distance Selling Regulations might come into effect here as well... because it wasn't made in a shop or anything, that applies for business as well as personal purchases AFAIK...

13-03-2006, 18:15	#7
dreaddan Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 12	Distance selling regs say you can send it back with a full refund (not inc devivery). Details can be found on this site http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/guide/distsell.htm

13-03-2006, 18:31	#8
leo Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Edinburgh Services: Freeview. Giganews. Orange 6630. MythTV/Xbox PVR. PC! Posts: 2,534 Blog Entries: 1	wow...just read this on the reg - whod'a think that our little (well...actually over 1 in 600 people in the UK are members) forum would have a headline on the reg Leo

13-03-2006, 19:42	#10
njeo Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hazel Grove Services: Nokia N96. NTL 20mbps cable modem. Freeview. Posts: 5,116	Which one... prices on the web start at £199 for a poweredge server. John Oates at El Reg obviously doesn't have anything else to do except read DS... hmm, like me... It isn't Dell's fault that they didn't know what they were looking but a server is total overkill between just two computers. Just goes to show how untrustworthy and dishonest sales reps can be - in any organisation. All they are bothered about is their commission. C'mon, any sales reps out there, disprove that stereotype!

13-03-2006, 20:11	#11
Lucas Fan Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Rotherham Services: Freeview (ex ondig + Matsui), Sky World + Filmfour, Nildram ADSL Posts: 75	That's just outrageous. File and printer sharing comes as standard with any version of windows.

13-03-2006, 21:27	#13
Outcast_Aussie Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1	Actually this sounds like my boss !! He just started up a HGV agency and asked me to do the IT stuff. I said yeah ... Ok. He had two laptops and a desktop which is kept on dial up for Bacs. Had to persuade him to install broadband. Rang me up and said he'd got it done. So went into office to find he got someone in to install it all..... and I saw they had installed a Dell server !! "Goes like a rockit (sic) Mate" he said !! er... You aint got broadband at home anyway have you, So its your first time on ADSL speed. It will fly compared to what your used to. I give up !! http://www.am-hgv-resources.co.uk ( My 16 year old daughter made the website)

13-03-2006, 22:33	#15
Paul Reading Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 212	If you business is unincorporated and has no more than two Partners then I believe you do qualify for protection under the Consumer Protection Act, of which the DSR are an addendum. I read about this in the Sunday Times, a man tried to make a claim against his credit card company under the CPA because goods he ordered were never delivered as the company had gone bust holding his deposit. The credit company had to pay up because his business had only two partners and under that act there are treated as having the same rights as a married couple etc. I cannot find a copy of the CPA on line to prove that this information is correct, but what I do know is that the Sunday Times surprised the credit card company who did not know of it's existence. What I cannot say is if the law has since been changed removing this anomaly, after all why should a partnership of three have fewer rights than one of two?

14-03-2006, 08:59	#16
cjunky Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2	I would say your friend has pretty good chances. The key to dealing with companies like dell is to be aware that they operate on the premise that if they ignore/stonewall you 90% of their problems will simply go away. Get legal advice. I’m fairly sure you have some grounds for protection under the CPA as the previous poster mentioned. Likewise if your friend bought the equipment on any kind of credit tool such as a credit card, then so long as they are an individual, sole trader, partnership or unincorporated organisation the consumer credit act (1974) offers them protection that enables them to enlist their credit card in fighting their battle for them. Basically you want to get a "without prejudice" letter citing that the goods are not fit for the purpose for which they were intended, namely connecting two machines. You can also look at getting organisations such as watchdog involved since the one thing organisations dell likes least is negative publicity. Saying that getting El Reg to run a story was a pretty good step in the right direction. Oh and if you talk to them by phone, make sure you are speaking to a manager or duty manager. However I would recommend sending the letter first then following it up. (get the letter registered so you have proof of delivery) If your friends organisation is a limited company, then both these acts offer no protection, however the negative publicity angle is still a pretty powerful thing. If Dell realise you aren’t going to back down and your willing to go to press chances are they will back down to make the problem go away. Hope this helps. Please paste a follow-up so we can see what happens. cj

14-03-2006, 12:12	#17
mysticegg Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Plymouth Services: Virgin XXXL, iMac 24" 2.8GHz, XBox360, Twitter:@mysticegg Posts: 2,131 Blog Entries: 2	Hi Guys, I'm overwhelmed by the response to this! I've been contacted by John Oates from Theregister and he's contacted Dell. Apparently, they are keen to speak to my friends! Will post the minute I hear any news!

14-03-2006, 16:36	#18
media guy Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Southampton (Uni, Staff) Services: Freeview - Humax 9200t \|\| DAB \|\| Be Internet. 22.5Mb/s down 2.5 up Posts: 3,720	Big brother and Freeview hacks, that's disgrace.... no-wait, he's totally right Back on topic: I can't believe things like that actually happen, although I don't really know who is stupider Dell for not knowing that you don't need a server to share files or some who just pays 3 grand for a 2 PC office.

15-03-2006, 16:49	#24
mysticegg Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Plymouth Services: Virgin XXXL, iMac 24" 2.8GHz, XBox360, Twitter:@mysticegg Posts: 2,131 Blog Entries: 2	Hi, An update to our case: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/200...rver_strategy/ My sincere thanks to Chris Rowe (possibly a DS member) for originally tipping 'TheRegister' off. As a result, Alarm bells are now ringing at Dell HQ!!!