[SkyBlueArmy]

Anyone seen VM's "Truth, Lies and Broadband" full page advert in the NoTW this weekend? It goes on about how cable is fibre-optic means better speeds (blah blah blah) and it links to http://www.areyouuptospeed.com/

[rhod]

Staggering, isn't it.

Pity VM couldn't spend the considerable amount of money that these adverts have cost on letters of explanation to it's existing customers for whom the 20Mb upgrade has been a debacle.

No, it's easier to put out a few BS adverts and pull in a few more suckers to a service they can't provide (except between 3 and 4 am every other Wednesday morning)

[BBRealist]

Can see one lie straight off.

Now I only spent 2.5 years working on cable, and was only a subscriber for a similar length of time but I'm fairly sure it was coax that came into the home not fibre.

I do love marketing splurge. ASA can go on this one in fairly rapid time.

[TheBigM]

Originally Posted by BBRealist

Can see one lie straight off.

Now I only spent 2.5 years working on cable, and was only a subscriber for a similar length of time but I'm fairly sure it was coax that came into the home not fibre.

I do love marketing splurge. ASA can go on this one in fairly rapid time.

The fibre is to their street cabs. They've already been reprimanded for false advertising as well. You are correct on it being coax into the home. Cable broadband is about as optical as ADSL is in terms of the access network. However in terms of backbone etc it is more fibre compared to the legacy ATM networks.

[intheknow]

Right, this is beyond the joke now, I've already made a complaint to the ASA, now they are claiming this on their website.

I have just filed a complaint with trading standards in Westminster (where Virgin Media's registered office is) and I will update you on any progress.

[intheknow]

Update I just emailed The Times, and 1 or 2 other newspapers about this and had a call back from The Times.

I spoke to the reporter for about 20 and explained the details of my complaint to the ASA and answered lots of questions. He asked if I had spoken to any other newspapers and then he said he was off to go and do some more investigation and he may well call back and speak to me again.

[BBRealist]

Originally Posted by TheBigM

The fibre is to their street cabs. They've already been reprimanded for false advertising as well. You are correct on it being coax into the home. Cable broadband is about as optical as ADSL is in terms of the access network. However in terms of backbone etc it is more fibre compared to the legacy ATM networks.

Sorry but what does them being ATM networks have to do with anything?

The ATM cells are carried over distances by beams of light, travelling along optical fibres. There are pretty much no exchanges that aren't using fibre, these are using microwave links.

Don't confuse ATM, a protocol, with the physical equipment actually carrying that protocol. OSI 7 layer model and all that, fibre optics being layer 1, ATM being layer 2 along with ethernet, etc, delivered over fibre or copper.

[intheknow]

Originally Posted by intheknow

Update I just emailed The Times, and 1 or 2 other newspapers about this and had a call back from The Times.

I spoke to the reporter for about 20 and explained the details of my complaint to the ASA and answered lots of questions. He asked if I had spoken to any other newspapers and then he said he was off to go and do some more investigation and he may well call back and speak to me again.

...and here's the article. It will be in the business section of the paper tomorrow and is online now.




*****

The Advertising Standards Authority has started an investigation into Virgin Media after claims that its advertising campaign “Truth, Lies and Broadband” is misleading consumers.

The advertisements, which have appeared in national newspapers, on radio and online, say that Virgin Media’s broadband is “delivered via a fibre optic cable � meaning that it is officially the fastest and the best-performing broadband available”. The company also claims that it “doesn’t use copper wire, like most providers”.

However, Virgin’s fibre optic network stops at street level and its broadband is delivered to individual homes via a standard coaxial copper cable. It is also possible for computer owners to get faster broadband through BT’s ADSL network � if they are lucky enough to live near to an exchange.

Sebastien Lahtinen, of thinkbroadband.com, an independent broadband comparison service, said: “Some listeners to the advert assumed Virgin would be delivering fibre to their home, which is not the case with this service. Also, the claim to provide ‘unlimited super-duper fast fibre optic cable broadband’ is strongly conveying the idea of fast speeds, when users might question the potential slow-downs during peak periods due to traffic shaping and whether 2mbps [megabits per second] itself is ‘super-duper fast’ these days.”

****

Full story. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2093454.ece

[Ratchie]

Wow..that are you uptospeed site says I can only get 5mb via ADSL but 20mb via cable - I'm currently getting 14MB down all day (un traffic shaped) and 1.3MB up via ADSL for some £13 cheaper than I'd get 20mb from Virgin for. It's very misleading really.

[PudpullerTM]

Originally Posted by Ratchie

Wow..that are you uptospeed site says I can only get 5mb via ADSL but 20mb via cable - I'm currently getting 14MB down all day (un traffic shaped) and 1.3MB up via ADSL for some £13 cheaper than I'd get 20mb from Virgin for. It's very misleading really.

heres more lies from VM on their why cable it so good (take from the availability checker

You've a choice of two types of broadband where you live, Cable and ADSL.
Lots of companies offer ADSL broadband, like BT, TalkTalk, AOL, Tiscali, Orange and Sky. Virgin Media also do ADSL. However, Virgin Media is the only company that also offers cable broadband in the UK.

The maximum speed you can get with ADSL broadband may be less than you think you should be getting, because it's based on how far you live from the telephone exchange.

Cable broadband comes down its own cable so doesn't get the same problem. NO IT SHARES ITS CABLE WITH THE SET TOP BOX FOR YOUR TV

Other things can affect the speed like the number of people using a website at the same time and the performance of your computer, although this isn't usually a problem. That's why broadband companies say "up to" before the speed, for example "up to 8Mb".

If you can get cable broadband, you really should here's why:

Does VM not have a clue about technology or how to explain things realistically

[richard1960]

Originally Posted by intheknow

...and here's the article. It will be in the business section of the paper tomorrow and is online now.




*****

The Advertising Standards Authority has started an investigation into Virgin Media after claims that its advertising campaign “Truth, Lies and Broadband” is misleading consumers.

The advertisements, which have appeared in national newspapers, on radio and online, say that Virgin Media’s broadband is “delivered via a fibre optic cable � meaning that it is officially the fastest and the best-performing broadband available”. The company also claims that it “doesn’t use copper wire, like most providers”.

However, Virgin’s fibre optic network stops at street level and its broadband is delivered to individual homes via a standard coaxial copper cable. It is also possible for computer owners to get faster broadband through BT’s ADSL network � if they are lucky enough to live near to an exchange.

Sebastien Lahtinen, of thinkbroadband.com, an independent broadband comparison service, said: “Some listeners to the advert assumed Virgin would be delivering fibre to their home, which is not the case with this service. Also, the claim to provide ‘unlimited super-duper fast fibre optic cable broadband’ is strongly conveying the idea of fast speeds, when users might question the potential slow-downs during peak periods due to traffic shaping and whether 2mbps [megabits per second] itself is ‘super-duper fast’ these days.”

****

Full story. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2093454.ece

Hm intheknow,i see your story comes from the times online,Would that be the same times, as owned by mr rupert murdoch,who is also a major shareholder in sky! Who are vms,competitors.

So i would say until i have seen the article appear in a more independant paper,the story is being placed to pour petrol on the fire,due to the vm sky dispute.So therefore uncredible in my view.

Funny though the times never prints any stories about unhappy sky customers just for balance. maybe because,its not independant are you.

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by intheknow

Update I just emailed The Times, and 1 or 2 other newspapers about this and had a call back from The Times.

I spoke to the reporter for about 20 and explained the details of my complaint to the ASA and answered lots of questions. He asked if I had spoken to any other newspapers and then he said he was off to go and do some more investigation and he may well call back and speak to me again.

So much for letting the ASA make its decision independently then

Times owned by Murdoch!

Wonder how many others here have complained to a national newspaper and got a call back and a report printed on the same day. Especially with inflation high, fuel prices rocketing and major companies recieving bids so hardly a slow news day.

I suppose it would be easier if you had links to the company or a sister company!

[mossy2103]

You think that 3.1% or so is high inflation? Good job that you don't remember the 70's with double-digit inflation peaking at around 15-17%

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by mossy2103

You think that 3.1% or so is high inflation? Good job that you don't remember the 70's with double-digit inflation peaking at around 15-17%

except that the real rate of inflation for a family with two kids is 8.2% (see ONS)

I do remember the 70s inflation and the 80s recession

difference pay awards were of a much greater size as well especially in the public sector (remember in the NHS recieves a pay award and back pay that paid for a holiday!)

The point was the relevant poster does not show principles in relation to the protecting the consumers but is merely using this as his latest pet cause to have a go at VM ( he dropped the DD cause when it found that the Sky and BT together were worse.)

The complaint has been made, let the ASA decide but he could not do that!

[Stator]

Originally Posted by starsailor123

except that the real rate of inflation for a family with two kids is 8.2% (see ONS)

I do remember the 70s inflation and the 80s recession

difference pay awards were of a much greater size as well especially in the public sector (remember in the NHS recieves a pay award and back pay that paid for a holiday!)

The point was the relevant poster does not show principles in relation to the protecting the consumers but is merely using this as his latest pet cause to have a go at VM ( he dropped the DD cause when it found that the Sky and BT together were worse.)

The complaint has been made, let the ASA decide but he could not do that!

Another personal attack.

I notice you didn't defend the fact that VM were caught lying AGAIN.

[Stator]

“Regardless of where you live, if you’re in a cabled area we can offer 20mb to any home.”

Another VM employee who doesn't know what she is talking about. Still loads of areas waiting for their upgrade.

[richard1960]

The reason inflation looks so low,at least officially is because unlike the 70s or eighties more and more items people must have for everyday living,have gradually been taken out of the official figures. I thought the figure on one of the governments old official calculations was about 4.5% at the moment.

In much the same way people have been moved off the unemployment register,and moved onto incapacity benefit to give the inpression of low unemployment.Smoke and mirrors.

Perhaps intheknow would care to report the government to the asa!!!!!

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by Stator

Another personal attack.

I notice you didn't defend the fact that VM were caught lying AGAIN.

Not a personal attack just pointing out a poster bias

on the matter of the truth I don't know. it does look like VM are skating close to the definition as do other company

up to 16mb === reality 78% get less than 8mb ( hardly honest and upfront is it!)

I will wait and see what the ASA say. whats the point is asking for an independent arbitration if you have already decided that there "lying"

if intheknow has the same view as yourself it will be interesting what he will post if the ASA say it was not fundamentally misleading ( which if you look at a lot of their arbitrations they do a lot. i.e its not 100% accurate but on balance fair)

[TheBigM]

Originally Posted by richard1960

The reason inflation looks so low,at least officially is because unlike the 70s or eighties more and more items people must have for everyday living,have gradually been taken out of the official figures. I thought the figure on one of the governments old official calculations was about 4.5% at the moment.

In much the same way people have been moved off the unemployment register,and moved onto incapacity benefit to give the inpression of low unemployment.Smoke and mirrors.

Perhaps intheknow would care to report the government to the asa!!!!!

Indeed Brown moved from RPI to CPI which has had a generally lower reported rate of inflation and then claimed inflation was lower, hurrah! Brown is very clever in doing things like this.

[goomba]

Originally Posted by Stator

Another VM employee who doesn't know what she is talking about. Still loads of areas waiting for their upgrade.

Must admit I spoted this half truth as well. What she also meant to say was "up to" as well.

The whole web page linked by the OP is full of such half truths and smoke and mirrors.

[SparkyM]

Funny. My first reaction when I saw the adverts in the papers and online was to think "the cheeky b********" they can't even deliver the service I am paying for now [20mb] let alone the service I had before that [10mb]. How hard faced can they get? To be honest I am slightly less worried about what the cable is made out of or what newspapers things are published in.

Come on VM sort the 20mb fiasco out now. I followed the advice in your latest ad campaign. I checked my speed..and the news is not good!! We all know the fault has been on the status page for weeks - so why not put all your efforts into fixing that instead of this highly ironic ad campaign. I have to say it was a BAD choice of wording given the present situation.

[Stator]

Originally Posted by starsailor123

I will wait and see what the ASA say. whats the point is asking for an independent arbitration if you have already decided that there "lying"

Making a complaint to the ASA is not asking for independent arbitration, it's not some sort of union disagreement or pay dispute. It's reporting a crime against the truth. They may not rule against VM, as a lot of the time criminals don't get prosecuted. Given the misleading broadband adverts by a lot of other companies I wouldn't be surprised. It doesn't make VM's adverts any less bull**** though. As far as I'm concerned the whole industry needs tighter rules, especially regardings FUP's.

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by Stator

Making a complaint to the ASA is not asking for independent arbitration, it's not some sort of union disagreement or pay dispute. It's reporting a crime against the truth. They may not rule against VM, as a lot of the time criminals don't get prosecuted. Given the misleading broadband adverts by a lot of other companies I wouldn't be surprised. It doesn't make VM's adverts any less bull**** though. As far as I'm concerned the whole industry needs tighter rules, especially regardings FUP's.

Well glad you've got an independent mind

The ASA is independent regulator for advertisements, sales promotion and direct marketing in the UK.

it is the arbiter or regulator for those items

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by TheBigM

Indeed Brown moved from RPI to CPI which has had a generally lower reported rate of inflation and then claimed inflation was lower, hurrah! Brown is very clever in doing things like this.

I wasn''t trying to start a political debate but you're right!

[PudpullerTM]

Originally Posted by Stator

Making a complaint to the ASA is not asking for independent arbitration, it's not some sort of union disagreement or pay dispute. It's reporting a crime against the truth. They may not rule against VM, as a lot of the time criminals don't get prosecuted. Given the misleading broadband adverts by a lot of other companies I wouldn't be surprised. It doesn't make VM's adverts any less bull**** though. As far as I'm concerned the whole industry needs tighter rules, especially regardings FUP's.

They are using all their good speil in the best places the problem is all these speils totally highlight the fact

CABLE IS ON COPPER WIRE
CABLE DOESNT HAVE ITS OWN DEDICATED WIRE TO YOUR HOME (AND IT STILL ISNT FIBRE AS THEY WANT YOU TO BELEIVE)

the problem is with this campaign they are blaitantly misleading people by highlighting the fact the cable length is not as big a factor in cable as it is in ADSL they are making cable out to be something it is not (well isnt under VM) the network is not the only problem VM have their biggest is keeping up with demand for bandwidth hungry consumers all they are interested in is getting the **MB figure as higher than ADSL regardless of what they can currently honestly offer.

adsl has a technical problem wih cable length which is pointed out when you order the item (on the availability checkers).

and it took the fanbois about 2 seconds to slag off the times and return to the corner to chant dont let the bad men help you see the truth