Something BT and Sky don't tell you? - Sky Broadband

pauls898 · 02-08-2007, 17:36

Right here’s one for you.

I have been getting problems with my Sky Max disconnecting during the evening as the noise margin was dropping below 5dB and my connection speed at best was only 2.7MB.

Doing a bit of asking around on this one I find that there is a problem if like me your using your router connected to an upstairs extension socket, which is wired with the 4 wire system, i.e. 2 line + Ring wire and a spare (Not used).

Apparently this "RingWire" is not required anymore with modern telephones, so to enable a good ADSL connection its best to Disconnect completely from ALL your telephone extension socket outlets including the master socket.

As this wire picks up interferrence and effects the ADSL signal somewhat.

I did this and to my amazement I now connect at 5.7MB and have a much reduced line attenuation from the original value of 51dB to now just 15.5dB

So there you go a simple case of disconnecting the wires from pins 3 and 4, the BT line is on pins 2 and
5 so leave those connected and see what happens.

Something BT or Sky never tell you!!!!!

beerhunter2 · 02-08-2007, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauls898

Something BT or Sky never tell you!

In know that this is news to you but it's actually quite common knowledge. There was an article about it on BT's web site and BT's Call Centre check for it by asking users to connect to their Test Socket which does not connect to the extension wires.

Sorry to shoot your fox.

pauls898 · 02-08-2007, 19:11

Thanks for your note, however I've not seen this problem discussed on here, and some of us still have the old style Master sockets with no "Test socket" to try out this, so the only alternative is to disconnect the wires from the inside lol.
I certainly wasn’t aware of this problem until today, maybe it would be a good idea if ISP companies put a leaflet in with their modems explaining the problem with older telephone installations which can cause these disconnection problems?

ardsar · 06-08-2007, 11:42

The 15.5dB line attentuation figure is not correct - this is the Netgear Bug that indicates an incorrect Line attenuation. By rebooting the rooter, i suspect your line attenuation will be around 45dB - still an improvement on what you had before.

pauls898 · 06-08-2007, 14:19

I have now sorted my random disconnet problems by updating the Netgear firmware from Sky's orginal one from

Version 1.01.28 to Version 1.02.09

Below is the improvements made by Netgear and they seem to help in maintaining the connection, even with a noise marging as low as 2.9dB I am still able to surf the net without it disconnecting

Version 1.02.09

Updated the ADSL driver to improve performance and interoperability.
Updated the firewall to address an issue where a forced PPP disconnect from the ISP could result in the router requiring user intervention to recover the connection.
Added a firewall configuration option to easily disable Instant Messaging ports which are open by default. To disable Instant Messaging ports go to the Firewall Rules page and check Close IM Ports.

Version 1.02.04

Updated the ADSL driver to improve performance and interoperability.
Updated the wireless driver to improve performance.
"Shared Key" was removed as an option for WEP Security Encryption Authentication Type on the Wireless Settings page. Authentication type "Automatic" is now selected for this case.
Fixed a problem with VPN passthrough.

06-08-2007, 15:30

Alot of people use skyuser and their tutorials tend's to solve a lot of problems the one's mentioned in the op tend to be common knowledge among techies.

http://www.skyuser.co.uk/wiki/index....By_Step_Guides

and included in the tutorials this little gem

http://www.readman.dsl.pipex.com/oth...ecatwiring.htm

pauls898 · 06-08-2007, 18:27

Thanks D B Cooper

A very interested artical, I still may re-wire my modem extention with some CAT5e wire just to squeeze the last bit of speed out of my connection, however removing that "Ring Wire" made a vast difference

Thanks again

Paul

openreachpeep · 06-08-2007, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauls898

Thanks D B Cooper

A very interested artical, I still may re-wire my modem extention with some CAT5e wire just to squeeze the last bit of speed out of my connection, however removing that "Ring Wire" made a vast difference

Thanks again

Paul

we've now redeveloped the NTE to eliminate this ring wire problem, whilst still having it connected. on all b/band faults that we visit we are meant to upgrade the NTE to the new face plate at no cost to the SP or the EU. as engineers we frown on the dis-connection of the bell wire, cos as it will cure your problem, when some-one moves into the house after you, and they have old phones they won't ring, true it's not your problem, but it's an inconvience to them. and i have encountered it on a few faults in the past months. please be aware, that some times the bell wire can come into contact with the legs of the line, on the internal wiring. this causes the same problems, but usually a whole lot severe. most recent example for me was EU sync at 356K, (no sync with my test modem), bell wire filter plate fitted, now could get sync with mine, but still with v.high HEC errors.(over 100 in 2mins is what we test to) partial loop between his bell and the a-leg. found his faulty ext. disconnected it, now sync's at 7.5M. had to charge them cos they couldn't be "arsed" to move their router to the nte5. no power point. cost of extension cord £15, cost of my visit and bill £180.

beerhunter2 · 07-08-2007, 07:41

Whilst I realise that BT have a policy about the bell wire, I have done some tests. (Which I posted here ages back.) I did the tests because although I knew the theory about the ring wire not being needed because phones are produced for the international market (and only BT/BSI/UK use a ring wire) I got people on these forums (who appeared not to know the theory even) contradicting me.

I trawled through every phone that I have (I have a lot). The only one that needed the ring wire (or a microfilter) was a Matsui (DSG) of indeterminate age. The oldest phone that I could date (I was definitely using it in 1991) did not need the ring wire. Can't date any of the other phones that I tested accurately but none of them needed the ring wire.

openreachpeep · 07-08-2007, 20:12

i have no doubt that your tests are correct, but i have to admit in the 10 years i've been in the job, i've only ever come accross a couple of phones that have not needed the bell wire. i guess the modern phone market hasn't quite reached rural cheshire yet.

i personally am not against the whole bell wire thing, i just like to make aware to people that we now have a solution to that problem.

02-08-2007, 17:36	#1
pauls898 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 104	Something BT and Sky don't tell you? Right here’s one for you. I have been getting problems with my Sky Max disconnecting during the evening as the noise margin was dropping below 5dB and my connection speed at best was only 2.7MB. Doing a bit of asking around on this one I find that there is a problem if like me your using your router connected to an upstairs extension socket, which is wired with the 4 wire system, i.e. 2 line + Ring wire and a spare (Not used). Apparently this "RingWire" is not required anymore with modern telephones, so to enable a good ADSL connection its best to Disconnect completely from ALL your telephone extension socket outlets including the master socket. As this wire picks up interferrence and effects the ADSL signal somewhat. I did this and to my amazement I now connect at 5.7MB and have a much reduced line attenuation from the original value of 51dB to now just 15.5dB So there you go a simple case of disconnecting the wires from pins 3 and 4, the BT line is on pins 2 and 5 so leave those connected and see what happens. Something BT or Sky never tell you!!!!!

02-08-2007, 19:11	#3
pauls898 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 104	Thanks for your note, however I've not seen this problem discussed on here, and some of us still have the old style Master sockets with no "Test socket" to try out this, so the only alternative is to disconnect the wires from the inside lol. I certainly wasn’t aware of this problem until today, maybe it would be a good idea if ISP companies put a leaflet in with their modems explaining the problem with older telephone installations which can cause these disconnection problems?

06-08-2007, 11:42	#4
ardsar Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	The 15.5dB line attentuation figure is not correct - this is the Netgear Bug that indicates an incorrect Line attenuation. By rebooting the rooter, i suspect your line attenuation will be around 45dB - still an improvement on what you had before.

06-08-2007, 14:19	#5
pauls898 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 104	I have now sorted my random disconnet problems by updating the Netgear firmware from Sky's orginal one from Version 1.01.28 to Version 1.02.09 Below is the improvements made by Netgear and they seem to help in maintaining the connection, even with a noise marging as low as 2.9dB I am still able to surf the net without it disconnecting Version 1.02.09 Updated the ADSL driver to improve performance and interoperability. Updated the firewall to address an issue where a forced PPP disconnect from the ISP could result in the router requiring user intervention to recover the connection. Added a firewall configuration option to easily disable Instant Messaging ports which are open by default. To disable Instant Messaging ports go to the Firewall Rules page and check Close IM Ports. Version 1.02.04 Updated the ADSL driver to improve performance and interoperability. Updated the wireless driver to improve performance. "Shared Key" was removed as an option for WEP Security Encryption Authentication Type on the Wireless Settings page. Authentication type "Automatic" is now selected for this case. Fixed a problem with VPN passthrough.

06-08-2007, 15:30	#6
D B Cooper Posts: n/a	Alot of people use skyuser and their tutorials tend's to solve a lot of problems the one's mentioned in the op tend to be common knowledge among techies. http://www.skyuser.co.uk/wiki/index....By_Step_Guides and included in the tutorials this little gem http://www.readman.dsl.pipex.com/oth...ecatwiring.htm

06-08-2007, 18:27	#7
pauls898 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 104	Thanks D B Cooper A very interested artical, I still may re-wire my modem extention with some CAT5e wire just to squeeze the last bit of speed out of my connection, however removing that "Ring Wire" made a vast difference Thanks again Paul

07-08-2007, 07:41	#9
beerhunter2 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hampshire, England Services: BT Broadband, BT Vision, BT Broadband Talk, Freesat Posts: 5,148	Whilst I realise that BT have a policy about the bell wire, I have done some tests. (Which I posted here ages back.) I did the tests because although I knew the theory about the ring wire not being needed because phones are produced for the international market (and only BT/BSI/UK use a ring wire) I got people on these forums (who appeared not to know the theory even) contradicting me. I trawled through every phone that I have (I have a lot). The only one that needed the ring wire (or a microfilter) was a Matsui (DSG) of indeterminate age. The oldest phone that I could date (I was definitely using it in 1991) did not need the ring wire. Can't date any of the other phones that I tested accurately but none of them needed the ring wire.

07-08-2007, 20:12	#10
openreachpeep Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: manchester Services: sky & sky bb Posts: 919	i have no doubt that your tests are correct, but i have to admit in the 10 years i've been in the job, i've only ever come accross a couple of phones that have not needed the bell wire. i guess the modern phone market hasn't quite reached rural cheshire yet. i personally am not against the whole bell wire thing, i just like to make aware to people that we now have a solution to that problem.