Freesat transponder data - Freesat

EuphoricaL · 21-02-2008, 17:28

As it appears no one else has yet, I had a look at the data being broadcast on the arqiva transponder (11428H tp C5) on Eurobird 1.

Freesat seems to be taking up PIDs 2015 to 2069, as summarised:
2015 Program Map Table (PMT)
2017 Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream
2018 Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule
2019 Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule
2065 Program Map Table (PMT)
2067 Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream
2068 Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule
2069 Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule

The above are definitely Freesat, 1. because its unusual to have these tables as high PIDs, 2. because it refers to other transport streams, 3. because most things are prefixed with "FSAT" inside the streams.

I've confirmed all the PIDs are broadcasting data, and lots of it. Looking inside the streams they do indeed consist of PMT and EIT tables.

By looking at the grouping of the channels referred to, the SDTs on 2017 and 2067 describe the services on transponders 10773H, 10788V, 10803H, 10818V, 10847V, 11954H (BBC transponders) and 10714H, 10758V, 10832H, 10891H, 10906V (ITV transponders). As well as the channel name there is also a description for each channel in the table, mostly stating "This is guidance for BBC HD" etc.

Looking at the EIT tables, this looks to me like a pretty complete set of event data, there are decent descriptions of each program for each channel for 7/8 days. Today, I got data until the 28th Feb.

It looks like the only data being broadcast at the moment is for BBC and ITV, but this is a full 7/8 days of EPG. Not really surprising.

Megabird · 21-02-2008, 18:17

Many thanks for posting this information.
I for one will be interested to see which other transponders frequencies appear in SDTs during March.

I think the appearance of 'FSAT' in the streams is a pretty good indicator for what they are being used for.

ProDave · 21-02-2008, 18:26

Interesting stuff EuphoricaL

So you have the equipment and knowhow to read these data steams and make sense of them. Great stuff.

You say EPG data is only currently being broadcast for BBC and ITV, but do you yet have enough information to produce a channels list for us, so we can see exactly what will be on Freesat?

EuphoricaL · 21-02-2008, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDave

So you have the equipment and knowhow to read these data steams and make sense of them. Great stuff.

Its not particularly hard, its all open and well documented standards. Anyone with a linux-based sat box can use a program called dvbsnoop to analyze the DVB stream of a transponder. I'm not completely familiar with the various table specifications, I've so far just read the plain text inside them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDave

You say EPG data is only currently being broadcast for BBC and ITV, but do you yet have enough information to produce a channels list for us, so we can see exactly what will be on Freesat?

The Service Description Table describe sets of services. Just by looking at the blocks of named services in the SDT I could tell that they are grouped by transponder, which correlate with the tables on lyngsat/flysat. With this combined with the data in the EIT its pretty obvious that the only data being broadcast is for BBC/ITV. There are often consecutive duplicates indicating data for multiple regions, and only BBC/ITV data is carried. So first impressions are that there is data for every single itv/bbc channel and region.

21-02-2008, 18:41

Whats the name of the app that works on Windows with my DVB-S card?

I had it once but cant remeber at all.

Analoguesat · 21-02-2008, 18:44

I like the sound of dvbsnoop. Whats the latest version for Dreamboxes?

21-02-2008, 18:49

FOUND IT:

http://www.dvbstreamexplorer.dk/

Although theres something I really cant work out, Why do so many people make things for dreamboxes. My DVB-S computer card that I output to the TV can much more and only cost me 40 pound...

EuphoricaL · 21-02-2008, 18:50

dvbsnoop is here:
http://dvbsnoop.sourceforge.net/

The MIPS binary is in downloads...

To use, flip the channel to the right transponder, I use "Shorts TV". Then run ./dvbsnoop -s pidscan. You'll see the freesat streams then.

Theres lots of examples on the website how to look at the individual streams, and the DVB table specifications are on the web

EuphoricaL · 21-02-2008, 19:23

So, just to clarify, i'm seeing data for ITV1,2,3,4 and regions and timeshifts, men & motors, BBC1/2/3/4 and regions, BBC HD, CBBC, CBeebies, BBC radios, BBC Parliament, News 24. Seems to be everything on the BBC and ITV transponders.

Megabird · 21-02-2008, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuphoricaL

So, just to clarify, i'm seeing data for ITV1,2,3,4 and regions and timeshifts, men & motors, BBC1/2/3/4 and regions, BBC HD, CBBC, CBeebies, BBC radios, BBC Parliament, News 24. Seems to be everything on the BBC and ITV transponders.

Exactly what I would expect at this stage. Perfect for testing receivers. When the other channels are signed up we can expect them to be added to the SDTs during March.

Please let us know if there are any changes.

blueplatinum · 21-02-2008, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuphoricaL

So, just to clarify, i'm seeing data for ITV1,2,3,4 and regions and timeshifts, men & motors, BBC1/2/3/4 and regions, BBC HD, CBBC, CBeebies, BBC radios, BBC Parliament, News 24. Seems to be everything on the BBC and ITV transponders.

Is the data for News 24 for the feed at 11954H or 10773H ?

BKM · 21-02-2008, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megabird

Exactly what I would expect at this stage. Perfect for testing receivers. When the other channels are signed up we can expect them to be added to the SDTs during March.

As was confirmed earlier today there is also a SECOND souce of limited EPG data to be added to every Freesat transponder to give functionality equivalent to that Sky Digital has (programme names/times on all channels for the next several hours)

davemurgatroyd · 22-02-2008, 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKM

As was confirmed earlier today there is also a SECOND souce of limited EPG data to be added to every Freesat transponder to give functionality equivalent to that Sky Digital has (programme names/times on all channels for the next several hours)

Is that in addition to (or an expansion of) the standard DVB EPG data already transmitted (thus in fact making it a third) and receivable by virtually any non Sky box as "Now and Next" and are they putting more than two programmes in their data stream in the same way many German FTA EPG streams (some up to 7 days but most one or two days only).

BKM · 22-02-2008, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by davemurgatroyd

Is that in addition to (or an expansion of) the standard DVB EPG data already transmitted (thus in fact making it a third) and receivable by virtually any non Sky box as "Now and Next" and are they putting more than two programmes in their data stream in the same way many German FTA EPG streams (some up to 7 days but most one or two days only).

"Now and Next" is, as I understand it, a (the only?) DVB standard which has to always be transmitted. They seem, from what was said, to be copying Sky functionality where, using the cursor keys, the names and times (but NOT descriptions) of programmes on ALL other channels can be viewed for the next few hours.

This involves limited EPG data being inserted on ALL transponders carrying platform channels.

EuphoricaL · 22-02-2008, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueplatinum

Is the data for News 24 for the feed at 11954H or 10773H ?

Just checked, the News 24 data is for 10773H (i.e. it is grouped with the other channels on 10773H).
The data for 11954H is for all the streams apart from news 24.

Strathclyde · 22-02-2008, 06:12

EuphoricaL: you might also like to have a look for test streams on some of the Globecast transponders on Eurobird 1. Although only Arqiva trumpeted their role re Freesat EPGs, Globecast is also involved. I suspect maybe Arqiva is doing the BBC/ITV streams, and Globecast the others?

Pablo Diablo · 22-02-2008, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strathclyde

EuphoricaL: you might also like to have a look for test streams on some of the Globecast transponders on Eurobird 1. Although only Arqiva trumpeted their role re Freesat EPGs, Globecast is also involved. I suspect maybe Arqiva is doing the BBC/ITV streams, and Globecast the others?

Which ones are the Globecast transponders? Flysat lists them all as Sky Digital (except the BBC TPs and now the Freesat TP).

EuphoricaL · 22-02-2008, 11:20

was about to ask the same question myself. I can see references on the web to globecast getting transponders, but can't see which ones they have...

Strathclyde · 22-02-2008, 11:23

I'm not sure how you tell (it's not even clear to me how you know an Astra tp from a Eurobird one??) ...but the "Sky Digital" label is only an indication that there is a Sky adaptation hub, regardless of whether the real wholesaler of the transponder is Arqiva, Globecast or Sky themselves.

Globecast tend to specialise in smaller channels, so F1L, F2L, F3, F2U, D12S, D9S, D2S, D5S, C2, C3 etc are pretty definitely all theirs.... they specialise in Eurobird, whereas Arqiva have tended to be Astra fans...

Strathclyde · 22-02-2008, 11:28

Aurora conveniently separates the Eurobird transponders out here and from what I know of the business, virtually ALL of them - that have channels identified- seem to be Globecast controlled.

Pablo Diablo · 22-02-2008, 12:33

Just scanned the Brit Shorts transponder. I have no idea how to read these tables or even which ones to even look at but the EIT stream on 2018 is definitely carrying BBC schedules and 2068 is carrying ITV schedules.

Pidscan:

Code:

dvbsnoop V1.4.00 -- http://dvbsnoop.sourceforge.net/ 

---------------------------------------------------------
Transponder PID-Scan...
---------------------------------------------------------
PID found:    0 (0x0000)  [SECTION: Program Association Table (PAT)]
PID found:   16 (0x0010)  [SECTION: Network Information Table (NIT) - actual network]
PID found:   17 (0x0011)  [SECTION: Service Description Table (SDT) - actual transport stream]
PID found:   20 (0x0014)  [SECTION: Time Date Table (TDT)]
PID found:  263 (0x0107)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found:  264 (0x0108)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found:  641 (0x0281)  [PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found:  643 (0x0283)  [PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found:  645 (0x0285)  [PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found:  646 (0x0286)  [PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found: 1451 (0x05ab)  [PES: ITU-T Rec. H.262 | ISO/IEC 13818-2 or ISO/IEC 11172-2 video stream]
PID found: 1452 (0x05ac)  [PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found: 1584 (0x0630)  [SECTION: DSM-CC - private data section  // DVB datagram]
PID found: 1600 (0x0640)  [SECTION: DSM-CC - private data section  // DVB datagram]
PID found: 1632 (0x0660)  [SECTION: DSM-CC - private data section  // DVB datagram]
PID found: 1648 (0x0670)  [SECTION: DSM-CC - private data section  // DVB datagram]
PID found: 1664 (0x0680)  [SECTION: DSM-CC - private data section  // DVB datagram]
PID found: 2018 (0x07e2)  [SECTION: Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule]
PID found: 2019 (0x07e3)  [SECTION: ATSC reserved]
PID found: 2066 (0x0812)  [SECTION: Network Information Table (NIT) - other network]
PID found: 2068 (0x0814)  [SECTION: Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule]
PID found: 2069 (0x0815)  [SECTION: ATSC reserved]
PID found: 2080 (0x0820)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found: 2305 (0x0901)  
PID found: 2402 (0x0962)  [SECTION: DSM-CC - private data section  // DVB datagram]

EuphoricaL · 22-02-2008, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strathclyde

Aurora conveniently separates the Eurobird transponders out here and from what I know of the business, virtually ALL of them - that have channels identified- seem to be Globecast controlled.

I had a quick look on all the eb1 tps, nothing jumped out at me as obvious as the arqiva one. Its possible I missed them or they look differently to the arqiva ones. Its a bit of a needle in a haystack.

Pablo Diablo · 22-02-2008, 12:41

The NIT on 2068:

Code:

dvbsnoop V1.4.00 -- http://dvbsnoop.sourceforge.net/ 

------------------------------------------------------------
SECT-Packet: 00000001   PID: 2066 (0x0812), Length: 285 (0x011d)
Time received: Fri 2008-02-22  12:37:08.284
------------------------------------------------------------
PID:  2066 (0x0812)
Guess table from table id...
NIT-decoding....
Table_ID: 65 (0x41)  [= Network Information Table (NIT) - other network]
section_syntax_indicator: 1 (0x01)
reserved_1: 1 (0x01)
reserved_2: 3 (0x03)
Section_length: 282 (0x011a)
Network_ID: 59 (0x003b)  [= >>ERROR: not (yet) defined... Report!<<]
reserved_3: 3 (0x03)
Version_number: 3 (0x03)
current_next_indicator: 1 (0x01)  [= valid now]
Section_number: 0 (0x00)
Last_Section_number: 0 (0x00)
reserved_4: 15 (0x0f)
Network_descriptor_length: 41 (0x0029)

        DVB-DescriptorTag: 74 (0x4a)  [= linkage_descriptor]
        Descriptor_length: 12 (0x0c)
        transport_stream_ID: 2315 (0x090b)
        original_network_ID: 59 (0x003b)  [= >>ERROR: not (yet) defined... Report!<<]
        service_ID: 2080 (0x0820)  [=  --> refers to PMT program_number]
        linkage_type: 9 (0x09)  [= system software update service]
            OUI_data_length: 4 (0x04)
            OUI: 11329096 (0xacde48)  [= http://standards.ieee.org/regauth/oui/]
            selector_length: 0 (0x00)

        DVB-DescriptorTag: 64 (0x40)  [= network_name_descriptor]
        Descriptor_length: 2 (0x02)
        Network_name: "59"  -- Charset: Latin alphabet

        DVB-DescriptorTag: 95 (0x5f)  [= private_data_specifier_descriptor]
        Descriptor_length: 4 (0x04)
        PrivateDataSpecifier: 1179861332 (0x46534154)  [= >>ERROR: not (yet) defined... Report!<<]

        DVB-DescriptorTag: 210 (0xd2)  [= User defined]
        Descriptor_length: 15 (0x0f)
        Descriptor-data:
              0000:  09 0b 00 3b 00 08 11 07  01 02 03 04 05 06 07      ...;...........


reserved_5: 15 (0x0f)
Transport_stream_loop_length: 228 (0x00e4)

    Transport_stream_ID: 2315 (0x090b)
    Original_network_ID: 59 (0x003b)  [= >>ERROR: not (yet) defined... Report!<<]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 18098051 (=  11.42783 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 645 (=  28.5)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 0 (0x00)  [= linear - horizontal]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2576384 (=  27.5000)
            FEC_inner: 2 (0x02)  [= 2/3 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2013 (0x07dd)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 18436944 (=  11.95350 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 642 (=  28.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 0 (0x00)  [= linear - horizontal]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2576384 (=  27.5000)
            FEC_inner: 2 (0x02)  [= 2/3 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2041 (0x07f9)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17241120 (=  10.71420 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 642 (=  28.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 0 (0x00)  [= linear - horizontal]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2228224 (=  22.0000)
            FEC_inner: 4 (0x04)  [= 5/6 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2044 (0x07fc)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17258576 (=  10.75850 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 642 (=  28.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 1 (0x01)  [= linear - vertical]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2228224 (=  22.0000)
            FEC_inner: 4 (0x04)  [= 5/6 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2045 (0x07fd)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17265456 (=  10.77330 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 642 (=  28.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 0 (0x00)  [= linear - horizontal]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2228224 (=  22.0000)
            FEC_inner: 4 (0x04)  [= 5/6 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2046 (0x07fe)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17270784 (=  10.78800 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 642 (=  28.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 1 (0x01)  [= linear - vertical]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2228224 (=  22.0000)
            FEC_inner: 4 (0x04)  [= 5/6 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2047 (0x07ff)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17302128 (=  10.80270 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 642 (=  28.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 0 (0x00)  [= linear - horizontal]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2228224 (=  22.0000)
            FEC_inner: 4 (0x04)  [= 5/6 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2048 (0x0800)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17307472 (=  10.81750 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 642 (=  28.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 1 (0x01)  [= linear - vertical]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2228224 (=  22.0000)
            FEC_inner: 4 (0x04)  [= 5/6 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2049 (0x0801)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17314352 (=  10.83230 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 642 (=  28.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 0 (0x00)  [= linear - horizontal]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2228224 (=  22.0000)
            FEC_inner: 4 (0x04)  [= 5/6 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2050 (0x0802)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17319680 (=  10.84700 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 642 (=  28.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 1 (0x01)  [= linear - vertical]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2228224 (=  22.0000)
            FEC_inner: 4 (0x04)  [= 5/6 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2053 (0x0805)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17338656 (=  10.89120 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 642 (=  28.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 0 (0x00)  [= linear - horizontal]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2228224 (=  22.0000)
            FEC_inner: 4 (0x04)  [= 5/6 conv. code rate]


    Transport_stream_ID: 2054 (0x0806)
    Original_network_ID: 2 (0x0002)  [= Astra Satellite Network 28,2�E | Soci�t� Europ�enne des Satellites]
    reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
    Transport_descriptor_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 67 (0x43)  [= satellite_delivery_system_descriptor]
            Descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            Frequency: 17368576 (=  10.90600 GHz)
            Orbital_position: 10242 (= 280.2)
            West_East_flag: 1 (0x01)  [= EAST]
            Polarisation: 1 (0x01)  [= linear - vertical]
            Modulation (Sat): 1 (0x01)  [= QPSK]
            Symbol_rate: 2228224 (=  22.0000)
            FEC_inner: 4 (0x04)  [= 5/6 conv. code rate]

CRC: 2700763184 (0xa0fa6030)
==========================================================

If EuphoricaL can give me some advice on what to look for and if anyone can give me some other TPs to scan, I'll be happy to help

EuphoricaL · 22-02-2008, 13:09

Sure.
Your missing a few PIDs. It looks like they have two sets of data:

PID found: 2015 (0x07df) [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found: 2016 (0x0812) [SECTION: Network Information Table (NIT) - other network]
PID found: 2017 (0x07e1) [SECTION: Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream]
PID found: 2018 (0x07e2) [SECTION: Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule]
PID found: 2019 (0x07e3) [SECTION: ATSC reserved]

PID found: 2065 (0x0811) [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found: 2066 (0x0812) [SECTION: Network Information Table (NIT) - other network]
PID found: 2067 (0x0813) [SECTION: Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream]
PID found: 2068 (0x0814) [SECTION: Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule]
PID found: 2069 (0x0815) [SECTION: ATSC reserved]

2015/2065 is PMT
2016/2066 is NIT
2017/2067 is SDT
2018/2068 is EIT
2019/2069 looks to be another EIT

To look at the data in each stream use options:
-pd 0 (verbose level, I use 0 mostly).
-ph 0 (output mode 0=none, 1=hexdump, 2=hex line 3=ascii line 4=hexdump2, I generally use 3 just to peek at the data)
-b (outputs the raw stream in binary)

So to look at the EIT data you could:
./dvbsnoop -pd 0 -ph 3 2019
You'll see tons of program data in chunks.
or to see what the channels in the SDT:
./dvbsnoop -pd 0 -ph 3 2017

More specificially:
./dvbsnoop -nph 2068
WIll give you very verbose information on each EIT entry
and ./dvbsnoop -n 1 -nph 2017
will give you info on each channel in the SDT...

Obviously this is cheating, we should be dumping in binary, and writing a script to parse the data as per the DVB standard

, but i'm not sure you'd gain much...

Best not to post to many dvbsnoop outputs, they are quite verbose :-)

Feel free to scan more tps there will be PMTs/SDTs/EITs for each tps but you'll likely find more on freesat tps.
If anyone has time to look at the DVB specs it might provide more insight into what to look for.

Pablo Diablo · 22-02-2008, 15:31

Thanks for that!!

I can see the list of channels in the SDT now...all the BBC and ITV ones. I'll definitely have a play around and see if I can uncover anything

21-02-2008, 17:28	#1
EuphoricaL Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Lancaster Services: toppy 5800,ps3,sky+ Posts: 305	Freesat transponder data As it appears no one else has yet, I had a look at the data being broadcast on the arqiva transponder (11428H tp C5) on Eurobird 1. Freesat seems to be taking up PIDs 2015 to 2069, as summarised: 2015 Program Map Table (PMT) 2017 Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream 2018 Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule 2019 Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule 2065 Program Map Table (PMT) 2067 Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream 2068 Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule 2069 Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule The above are definitely Freesat, 1. because its unusual to have these tables as high PIDs, 2. because it refers to other transport streams, 3. because most things are prefixed with "FSAT" inside the streams. I've confirmed all the PIDs are broadcasting data, and lots of it. Looking inside the streams they do indeed consist of PMT and EIT tables. By looking at the grouping of the channels referred to, the SDTs on 2017 and 2067 describe the services on transponders 10773H, 10788V, 10803H, 10818V, 10847V, 11954H (BBC transponders) and 10714H, 10758V, 10832H, 10891H, 10906V (ITV transponders). As well as the channel name there is also a description for each channel in the table, mostly stating "This is guidance for BBC HD" etc. Looking at the EIT tables, this looks to me like a pretty complete set of event data, there are decent descriptions of each program for each channel for 7/8 days. Today, I got data until the 28th Feb. It looks like the only data being broadcast at the moment is for BBC and ITV, but this is a full 7/8 days of EPG. Not really surprising.

21-02-2008, 18:17	#2
Megabird Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North Yorkshire, UK Services: FortecStar Passion HD - 9,13,16,19,28' DTT - Bilsdale Posts: 2,383	Many thanks for posting this information. I for one will be interested to see which other transponders frequencies appear in SDTs during March. I think the appearance of 'FSAT' in the streams is a pretty good indicator for what they are being used for.

21-02-2008, 18:26	#3
ProDave Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northern Scottish Highlands Services: Freesat From Sky+ HD, Astra 1 / Hotbird FTA, Freeview, Freeview PVR, ADSL Posts: 7,253	Interesting stuff EuphoricaL So you have the equipment and knowhow to read these data steams and make sense of them. Great stuff. You say EPG data is only currently being broadcast for BBC and ITV, but do you yet have enough information to produce a channels list for us, so we can see exactly what will be on Freesat?

21-02-2008, 18:41	#5
iandoh Posts: n/a	Whats the name of the app that works on Windows with my DVB-S card? I had it once but cant remeber at all.

21-02-2008, 18:44	#6
Analoguesat Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scottish Borders Services: Sky Digital, and fta from /5E/7E/9E/10E/13E/ 16E/19E/23E/28E Posts: 17,249	I like the sound of dvbsnoop. Whats the latest version for Dreamboxes?

21-02-2008, 18:49	#7
iandoh Posts: n/a	FOUND IT: http://www.dvbstreamexplorer.dk/ Although theres something I really cant work out, Why do so many people make things for dreamboxes. My DVB-S computer card that I output to the TV can much more and only cost me 40 pound...

21-02-2008, 18:50	#8
EuphoricaL Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Lancaster Services: toppy 5800,ps3,sky+ Posts: 305	dvbsnoop is here: http://dvbsnoop.sourceforge.net/ The MIPS binary is in downloads... To use, flip the channel to the right transponder, I use "Shorts TV". Then run ./dvbsnoop -s pidscan. You'll see the freesat streams then. Theres lots of examples on the website how to look at the individual streams, and the DVB table specifications are on the web

21-02-2008, 19:23	#9
EuphoricaL Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Lancaster Services: toppy 5800,ps3,sky+ Posts: 305	So, just to clarify, i'm seeing data for ITV1,2,3,4 and regions and timeshifts, men & motors, BBC1/2/3/4 and regions, BBC HD, CBBC, CBeebies, BBC radios, BBC Parliament, News 24. Seems to be everything on the BBC and ITV transponders.

22-02-2008, 06:12	#16
Strathclyde Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,125	EuphoricaL: you might also like to have a look for test streams on some of the Globecast transponders on Eurobird 1. Although only Arqiva trumpeted their role re Freesat EPGs, Globecast is also involved. I suspect maybe Arqiva is doing the BBC/ITV streams, and Globecast the others?

22-02-2008, 11:20	#18
EuphoricaL Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Lancaster Services: toppy 5800,ps3,sky+ Posts: 305	was about to ask the same question myself. I can see references on the web to globecast getting transponders, but can't see which ones they have...

22-02-2008, 11:23	#19
Strathclyde Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,125	I'm not sure how you tell (it's not even clear to me how you know an Astra tp from a Eurobird one??) ...but the "Sky Digital" label is only an indication that there is a Sky adaptation hub, regardless of whether the real wholesaler of the transponder is Arqiva, Globecast or Sky themselves. Globecast tend to specialise in smaller channels, so F1L, F2L, F3, F2U, D12S, D9S, D2S, D5S, C2, C3 etc are pretty definitely all theirs.... they specialise in Eurobird, whereas Arqiva have tended to be Astra fans...

22-02-2008, 11:28	#20
Strathclyde Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,125	Aurora conveniently separates the Eurobird transponders out here and from what I know of the business, virtually ALL of them - that have channels identified- seem to be Globecast controlled.

22-02-2008, 13:09	#24
EuphoricaL Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Lancaster Services: toppy 5800,ps3,sky+ Posts: 305	Sure. Your missing a few PIDs. It looks like they have two sets of data: PID found: 2015 (0x07df) [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)] PID found: 2016 (0x0812) [SECTION: Network Information Table (NIT) - other network] PID found: 2017 (0x07e1) [SECTION: Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream] PID found: 2018 (0x07e2) [SECTION: Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule] PID found: 2019 (0x07e3) [SECTION: ATSC reserved] PID found: 2065 (0x0811) [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)] PID found: 2066 (0x0812) [SECTION: Network Information Table (NIT) - other network] PID found: 2067 (0x0813) [SECTION: Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream] PID found: 2068 (0x0814) [SECTION: Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule] PID found: 2069 (0x0815) [SECTION: ATSC reserved] 2015/2065 is PMT 2016/2066 is NIT 2017/2067 is SDT 2018/2068 is EIT 2019/2069 looks to be another EIT To look at the data in each stream use options: -pd 0 (verbose level, I use 0 mostly). -ph 0 (output mode 0=none, 1=hexdump, 2=hex line 3=ascii line 4=hexdump2, I generally use 3 just to peek at the data) -b (outputs the raw stream in binary) So to look at the EIT data you could: ./dvbsnoop -pd 0 -ph 3 2019 You'll see tons of program data in chunks. or to see what the channels in the SDT: ./dvbsnoop -pd 0 -ph 3 2017 More specificially: ./dvbsnoop -nph 2068 WIll give you very verbose information on each EIT entry and ./dvbsnoop -n 1 -nph 2017 will give you info on each channel in the SDT... Obviously this is cheating, we should be dumping in binary, and writing a script to parse the data as per the DVB standard , but i'm not sure you'd gain much... Best not to post to many dvbsnoop outputs, they are quite verbose :-) Feel free to scan more tps there will be PMTs/SDTs/EITs for each tps but you'll likely find more on freesat tps. If anyone has time to look at the DVB specs it might provide more insight into what to look for.

22-02-2008, 15:31	#25
Pablo Diablo Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Nottingham Services: o2 BB - Freeview Posts: 4,283 Blog Entries: 2	Thanks for that!! I can see the list of channels in the SDT now...all the BBC and ITV ones. I'll definitely have a play around and see if I can uncover anything