New HD Box Has NO COMPONENT CONNECTIONS - Sky+ HD

nobby1963 · 10-04-2008, 18:26

Just noticed a thread over on AV Forums saying that someone has just got a new HD box and the component connections are not there any more.
Just a heads up for those that were not aware as this could have major implications for some.

infiniteloop · 10-04-2008, 18:44

*strokes nice Thomson box bristling with outputs*

the hamster · 10-04-2008, 19:22

the hamster climbs into his platic ball and does a few celebratory laps, safe in the knowledge he has component goodness

ian-d · 10-04-2008, 19:34

Yes, component is history for the thomson box, although the reasoning is still very much unknown. This is a huge disappointment and already having an impact!

The very latest models are those affected, starting from 4E300E. The previous models 4E300C and 4E3009 all seem to have got away with the original setup.

The rear faceplate has also had a redesign by the looks of it. I'll get some photos.

ian-d · 10-04-2008, 19:49

Sorry for the picture quality and size, took them on my mobile, but here's pictures of the back of the new version, and also the paper inclusion in the manual indicating the changes.

Back (left)

Back (right)

Print (page 1)

Print (page 2)

infiniteloop · 10-04-2008, 20:28

well done sir! HDMI is still in a ridiculous place I see, give the size/stiffness of most retail HDMI cables. The second HD output is a right boon to me at the moment, until someone makes a switching AV amp in my price range with a dual output!

y2dom · 10-04-2008, 21:29

Excuse my ignorance and the fact it may have been discussed before, But what does the ethernet port allow us to do?

Thanks

Halo3 · 10-04-2008, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2dom

Excuse my ignorance and the fact it may have been discussed before, But what does the ethernet port allow us to do?

Thanks

Nothing as of yet. Though there's talk of eventually using it for on demand content via broadband (I think).

Dave-H · 10-04-2008, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian-d

Yes, component is history for the thomson box, although the reasoning is still very much unknown.

As I've already said in another thread, it's all about content protection.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=762999

It's always been well known (or so I thought anyway) that only the first generation of Sky HD boxes would have component outputs, purely for compatibility with older displays. As analogue component has no facility for content protection it was always going to be withdrawn as soon as possible.

Jarrak · 10-04-2008, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-H

It's always been well known (or so I thought anyway) that only the first generation of Sky HD boxes would have component outputs, purely for compatibility with older displays. As analogue component has no facility for content protection it was always going to be withdrawn as soon as possible.

Yep, it was 2005 when SKY announced HDMI only and then went into rapid back tracking when they realised a good portion of the market only had component inputs.
It may have been SKY going to the distributers and doing a deal to allow HD over component with the understanding that connection method would be removed pretty close to 2 years after launch.

The only hiccup is that DRM is still being compromised all over the place, the US broadcast flag is still a dead duck and removing component doesn't prevent the distribution of perfect digital copies infact it's never been cheaper to totally ignore HDCP or workaround it.

Chippy99 · 11-04-2008, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-H

As I've already said in another thread, it's all about content protection.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=762999

It's always been well known (or so I thought anyway) that only the first generation of Sky HD boxes would have component outputs, purely for compatibility with older displays. As analogue component has no facility for content protection it was always going to be withdrawn as soon as possible.

I know this is true, but isn't it completely ridiculous?

I mean, how many people do you know with HD recording equipment with 1080i component inputs? Its not like everyone is "taping" HD recordings at home to sell at the market stall, is it.

And if you are a professional crook who is hell bent on piracy, you can crack HDMI output anyway.

Removing the component outputs is a total and utter waste of time and simply inconveniences the people with older HD Ready TV's with no HDMI inputs.

Total madness.

11-04-2008, 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by infiniteloop

well done sir! HDMI is still in a ridiculous place I see, give the size/stiffness of most retail HDMI cables.

Not only this but if you use scart it intrudes on the HDMI connection, especially if you are using thick cables, to solve this problem you need a flat design scart. Not very well thought out IMO.

If you look at print page 2 (ian-d post) where they are illustrating the connections, they are connecting the scart the wrong way round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by infiniteloop

The second HD output is a right boon to me at the moment, until someone makes a switching AV amp in my price range with a dual output!

The Denon AVR1908 is capable of switching between two HDMI devices, as does the AVR2308, the AVR2808 adds onboard decoding for the new HD audio formats. Prices found - £370, £400 and £599

The Onkyo TX-SR705 is the only mid range receiver I know of that is capable of switching between 3 HDMI devices. It also has onboard decoding for the newer HD audio formats. Can now be found for under £500.

infiniteloop · 11-04-2008, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyW

Not only this but if you use scart it intrudes on the HDMI connection, especially if you are using thick cables, to solve this problem you need a flat design scart. Not very well thought out IMO.

If you look at print page 2 (ian-d post) where they are illustrating the connections, they are connecting the scart the wrong way round.

The Denon AVR1908 is capable of switching between two HDMI devices, as does the AVR2308, the AVR2808 adds onboard decoding for the new HD audio formats. Prices found - £370, £400 and £599

The Onkyo TX-SR705 is the only mid range receiver I know of that is capable of switching between 3 HDMI devices. It also has onboard decoding for the newer HD audio formats. Can now be found for under £500.

Dual outputs, Tommy! The 705 is looking like a good candidate but I want the signal split to go to my "cooking" telly and the Projector!

Jamieslaptop · 11-04-2008, 09:53

is thisnew box any more reliable than the old ones? wonder if they have the same psu

Deacon1972 · 11-04-2008, 10:11

Will Sky restrict the HD output for those that have component connection for HD on the old style box?

gave_up · 11-04-2008, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon1972

Will Sky restrict the HD output for those that have component connection for HD on the old style box?

Hope not!! It was only when this thread popped up that i considered the possibility of buying a nice 15 metre hmdi cable to connect the telly upstairs with! I can use component downstairs satright into the back of the telly. If i rig up a magic eye at the same time, we should be able to control the hd box from upstairs when something good on is on in HD

ian-d · 11-04-2008, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamieslaptop

is thisnew box any more reliable than the old ones? wonder if they have the same psu

Too early to say, give it a couple of months and i'll be able to tell you.

Automan · 11-04-2008, 10:51

Any Dolby Digital audio via HDMI?

Automan.

srhill · 11-04-2008, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyW

Not only this but if you use scart it intrudes on the HDMI connection, especially if you are using thick cables, to solve this problem you need a flat design scart. Not very well thought out IMO.
.

It does intrude - howevr you can purchase scarts with front on cables either flat or normalcable.

Also - why the fuss about no component - sky always said that only the first HD boxes would have component so anyone who needed it should have bought one - they have had nearly 2 years after all.

11-04-2008, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by infiniteloop

Dual outputs, Tommy! The 705 is looking like a good candidate but I want the signal split to go to my "cooking" telly and the Projector!

Simultaneous HDMI outputs, I'm with you now.

Denon AVR 4308 and the Onkyo TX-NR905 are capable of this but are costly, £1600/£1100.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Automan

Any Dolby Digital audio via HDMI?

Automan.

I would have to say this should be achievable for the older style box via a simple software upgrade, no need to upgrade the hardware.

Why this hasn't been implemented before now is a mystery, DD5.1 and DD+, DD+ which can only be carried by HDMI was a feature mentioned at launch.

11-04-2008, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by srhill

It does intrude - howevr you can purchase scarts with front on cables either flat or normalcable.

Which I did mention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by srhill

Also - why the fuss about no component - sky always said that only the first HD boxes would have component so anyone who needed it should have bought one - they have had nearly 2 years after all.

I don't think it's the omission of component on the new version box that's the real issue, though it could be for those who would want to feed two HDTV's, for me it's the uncertainly that Sky may decide to restrict full resolution output for certain content over component in the future, similar to what VM do on their V+ box.

Personally I don't think they will, but you never know.

Mr.B · 11-04-2008, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyW

Which I did mention.

I don't think it's the omission of component on the new version box that's the real issue, though it could be for those who would want to feed two HDTV's, for me it's the uncertainly that Sky may decide to restrict full resolution output for certain content over component in the future, similar to what VM do on their V+ box.

Personally I don't think they will, but you never know.

can that be done on component output without affecting HDMI output?

11-04-2008, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.B

can that be done on component output without affecting HDMI output?

I would have thought so.

Sky would only need to apply something like an ICT (Image Constraint Token) to the component output, this would then downscale the HD image to SD.

Chippy99 · 11-04-2008, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by srhill

Also - why the fuss about no component - sky always said that only the first HD boxes would have component so anyone who needed it should have bought one.

Let them eat cake eh?

ALanJ · 11-04-2008, 16:58

This isn't surprising - Sky always said that the component output would only be in the first generation box to deal with the years on non HDMI HD screens that were out there.

The reality is that anyone who had a screen with only component input (ie no HDCP security) and who was interested in HD would have already gone to Sky HD.

The security issue was always something that is a slight red herring but is I suspect something that the rights holders have insisted on even if there is a complete failure to secure the US market.

10-04-2008, 18:26	#1
nobby1963 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 181	New HD Box Has NO COMPONENT CONNECTIONS Just noticed a thread over on AV Forums saying that someone has just got a new HD box and the component connections are not there any more. Just a heads up for those that were not aware as this could have major implications for some.

10-04-2008, 18:44	#2
infiniteloop Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: London Services: Sky HD+Max Posts: 5,149	strokes nice Thomson box bristling with outputs

10-04-2008, 19:22	#3
the hamster Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: AA Aerials, Grantham & Melton Services: For all your TV and Digital needs - PM's Welcome Posts: 1,033	the hamster climbs into his platic ball and does a few celebratory laps, safe in the knowledge he has component goodness

10-04-2008, 19:34	#4
ian-d Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,132	Yes, component is history for the thomson box, although the reasoning is still very much unknown. This is a huge disappointment and already having an impact! The very latest models are those affected, starting from 4E300E. The previous models 4E300C and 4E3009 all seem to have got away with the original setup. The rear faceplate has also had a redesign by the looks of it. I'll get some photos.

10-04-2008, 19:49	#5
ian-d Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,132	Sorry for the picture quality and size, took them on my mobile, but here's pictures of the back of the new version, and also the paper inclusion in the manual indicating the changes. Back (left) Back (right) Print (page 1) Print (page 2)

10-04-2008, 20:28	#6
infiniteloop Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: London Services: Sky HD+Max Posts: 5,149	well done sir! HDMI is still in a ridiculous place I see, give the size/stiffness of most retail HDMI cables. The second HD output is a right boon to me at the moment, until someone makes a switching AV amp in my price range with a dual output!

10-04-2008, 21:29	#7
y2dom Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 209	Excuse my ignorance and the fact it may have been discussed before, But what does the ethernet port allow us to do? Thanks

11-04-2008, 09:53	#14
Jamieslaptop Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barnsley Services: Sky+HD, Sky Max Broadband 16MB, Orange Dolphin 30 Sim Only Mobile Tariff Posts: 443	is thisnew box any more reliable than the old ones? wonder if they have the same psu

11-04-2008, 10:11	#15
Deacon1972 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Yorkshire Services: HDTV - Optoma HD65 - Denon AVR3806 7.1 (Genelecs) - Sky HD - V+ - PS3 Posts: 3,152	Will Sky restrict the HD output for those that have component connection for HD on the old style box?

11-04-2008, 10:51	#18
Automan Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: South Coast, UK Services: Sky+ HD 500G, FoxSat-HDR, TH-46PZ8BA, TX-SR806, BD-35 Posts: 4,089	Any Dolby Digital audio via HDMI? Automan.

11-04-2008, 16:58	#25
ALanJ Digital Spy Staff Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: London Services: SKY Digital, DTT Freeview, Sky+, TiVo Posts: 2,948 Blog Entries: 21	This isn't surprising - Sky always said that the component output would only be in the first generation box to deal with the years on non HDMI HD screens that were out there. The reality is that anyone who had a screen with only component input (ie no HDCP security) and who was interested in HD would have already gone to Sky HD. The security issue was always something that is a slight red herring but is I suspect something that the rights holders have insisted on even if there is a complete failure to secure the US market.