Future FTA HD channels? - Freesat

linkinpark875 · 23-09-2008, 16:04

Are there any future free HD channels going to launch? All the ones I hear are pay like MTV, Sky Movies?

I heard rumours of Five HD, Chart Show TV channels in HD, Film4 HD, E4 HD, ITV HD full launch on Sky?

What's the chances of getting any of these? And if they do launch will they be available on Freesat from BBC and Freesat from Sky?

Analoguesat · 23-09-2008, 16:10

It will be years before the market is ready to support those sorts of channels. Theres also the ever present problem of lack of capacity on 2D for fta HD channels from the main players.

Id say 5HD is years away.

Nigel Goodwin · 23-09-2008, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpark875

Are there any future free HD channels going to launch? All the ones I hear are pay like MTV, Sky Movies?

I heard rumours of Five HD, Chart Show TV channels in HD, Film4 HD, E4 HD, ITV HD full launch on Sky?

What's the chances of getting any of these? And if they do launch will they be available on Freesat from BBC and Freesat from Sky?

I would have thought chances are fairly low? - ITV HD will presumably appear on Sky when they actually launch an HD channel, and CH4 HD will appear on Freesat once they have overcome 2D problems. CH5 have always denied any HD plans.

derek500 · 23-09-2008, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpark875

Are there any future free HD channels going to launch? All the ones I hear are pay like MTV, Sky Movies?

I heard rumours of Five HD, Chart Show TV channels in HD, Film4 HD, E4 HD, ITV HD full launch on Sky?

What's the chances of getting any of these? And if they do launch will they be available on Freesat from BBC and Freesat from Sky?

Hardly any chance. As far as Freesat goes the only HD improvements will be C4 HD finding 2D space, the new/repeat ratio getting better on BBC HD and more ITV HD content.

linkinpark875 · 23-09-2008, 16:45

I thought Freesat offers a cheaper EPG slot than Sky so could it not encourage smaller channels to launch?

Film4 and E4 HD could launch surely as they have plenty of HD content they just need space? and I thought they changed transponders recently? plus they bought out the Life TV channels a while back so do they not own something between 140 and 143?

derek500 · 23-09-2008, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpark875

I thought Freesat offers a cheaper EPG slot than Sky so could it not encourage smaller channels to launch?

The EPG cost is only a small part of running a channel, especially an HD one.

As the channel will need to be advertising funded it would be pointless paying for a Freesat EPG, where the cost per viewer is many times higher than than the Sky equivalent.

Any new FTA HD channel will be on both platforms or Sky only like Luxe HD.

bignoise · 23-09-2008, 17:34

Future HD would seem to be a real problem for Freesat - there's not enough room on Astra 2D for all the SD channels that want to be there, let alone the HD channels which would take up four or five times as much space.

That means that the only space left is on the satellites with a wider European footprint - and since Freesat offers no encryption to secure transmissions to the UK only, any new HD channels will have to have all-Europe rights for their programming. That, in turn, means that realistically the only kind of things you're going to see in HD for free are the kind of 'Europudding' channels like Luxe.TV.

Unless Astra have any more 'tight beam' satellite launches planned for 28.2 degrees (I don't think so) I can't see this changing any time soon, unfortunately.

derek500 · 23-09-2008, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bignoise

Future HD would seem to be a real problem for Freesat - there's not enough room on Astra 2D for all the SD channels that want to be there, let alone the HD channels which would take up four or five times as much space.

With their new encoders Sky are now getting three or four HD channels on one transponder.

When you compare that to the poor quality ITV channels (up to eight per transponder), it shows what can be done.

linkinpark875 · 23-09-2008, 17:54

So what about the move of transponder from C4?

How many HD channels can use the old space? Surely they have room for E4 HD and Film4 HD, they have the slots and HD programming to launch non simulcast services. Nothing to stop them having to part time HD versions say from 7pm to 1am.

That would use up the same room as C4 HD would it not?

BKM · 23-09-2008, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpark875

That would use up the same room as C4 HD would it not?

C4HD is being uplinked for them (very possibly for free!) by Sky on a Sky leased (non Astra-2D) transponder. So it does not help for going FTA!

michael_2008_ · 23-09-2008, 19:38

I'd imagine five HD arriving in a few years, isn't it being trialed on DTT in London>

Analoguesat · 23-09-2008, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by bignoise

Future HD would seem to be a real problem for Freesat - there's not enough room on Astra 2D for all the SD channels that want to be there, let alone the HD channels which would take up four or five times as much space.

That means that the only space left is on the satellites with a wider European footprint - and since Freesat offers no encryption to secure transmissions to the UK only, any new HD channels will have to have all-Europe rights for their programming. That, in turn, means that realistically the only kind of things you're going to see in HD for free are the kind of 'Europudding' channels like Luxe.TV.

Unless Astra have any more 'tight beam' satellite launches planned for 28.2 degrees (I don't think so) I can't see this changing any time soon, unfortunately.

There are no current orders for new Astra 2 craft for 28E. It will be around 2012 before the existing craft start coming up for renewal

linkinpark875 · 23-09-2008, 21:07

What about the rumours of Chart Show TV going HD? With MTV HD due music channels in HD would be good and they are widescreen at the moment?

djmark · 23-09-2008, 21:10

Are music videos being made in HD yet?

linkinpark875 · 23-09-2008, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmark

Are music videos being made in HD yet?

Good question for a channel like Chart Show to go HD I wonder if some would be upscaled or if any would be filmed in HD? I'd imagine most major artists would use HD cameras when filming?

I know some material on 4Music appears on C4 HD. Perhaps anybody who knows about the forthcoming MTV HD channel will know if they show videos in true HD?

CrystalAvenger · 23-09-2008, 21:25

There certainly are some HD music videos around as you get the occassional one available for download (sometimes even for free!) via the marketplace on Xbox 360 Live. One such video was for Kasabian's track 'Shoot The Runner'.

nwhitfield · 24-09-2008, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael_2008_

I'd imagine five HD arriving in a few years, isn't it being trialed on DTT in London>

Five shared a frequency with ITV for the DTT test, which ceased around a year ago, and I think their contribution stopped before then.

linkinpark875 · 09-11-2009, 14:14

Here's a list of possible FTA HD channels:

CNN HD
Food Network HD
Film4 HD
More4 HD
E4 HD
Sky News HD
Fashion TV HD
ITV HD on the EPG
Five HD
Chart Show TV HD

Lengster · 09-11-2009, 16:53

If you ask me, the only one of those you'll see in the next three years is ITV HD on the EPG. Sky News HD is coming in 2010, but not to Freesat.

mad_dude · 09-11-2009, 17:20

Luxe TV HD will probably come to freesat at some point and channel 4 HD

Clem · 09-11-2009, 19:25

I'm seriously beginning to think that free HD via satellite is a lost proposition. The best way to get free HD will, I think be via Freeview, not Freesat.

The lack of capacity on Astra 2D, coupled with $ky's attempts to make sure that we have to pay for HD content means I think that Freesat HD is pretty much dead in the water. BBC's attempts are welcome, but by contrast ITV's offerings have been pathetic. Without extra capacity surfacing on 2D I doubt if we'll see much change here over the next few years. Probably better to buy a blu-ray player then buy the HD versions of the programmes that you want to see - that's the only way I see most of us who don't want to pay a subscription getting HD, me included.

Clem

Lengster · 10-11-2009, 16:11

To be fair, for a near-bankrupt company, ITV is managing to make a fair proportion of new shows in HD (comments about PQ aside).

JonStatt · 10-11-2009, 16:18

Actually there should really be egg on Freesat management faces. Because they should have predicted the issue around Astra 2D. This isn't just a barrier to HD channels, but further SD ones too.

I guess the only solution would have been to set up a non-profit making consortium to administer and charge nominally for encryption cards and added CAM support into the Freesat standards.

There is no guarantee when 2D comes up for replacement, that they will want to replace it with another satellite with restricted footprint. In fact I predict the opposite!

BKM · 10-11-2009, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonStatt

I guess the only solution would have been to set up a non-profit making consortium to administer and charge nominally for encryption cards and added CAM support into the Freesat standards.

That's the solution commonly used in other countries. However it would not have suited the particular desires of the BBC for Freesat. Such encryption could easily be tightened up and would be, in their view, another step towards some future government mandating a change from licence fee to subscription funding!

It does seem to have lead to a curious (but entirely predictable!) outcome!

Analoguesat · 10-11-2009, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clem

I'm seriously beginning to think that free HD via satellite is a lost proposition. The best way to get free HD will, I think be via Freeview, not Freesat.

The lack of capacity on Astra 2D,

If you think theres lack of capacity on 2D you havent thought it through for DTT at all!

Current DTT HD capacity is one mux capable of just about squeezing in 4 channels. Anyone wanting to operate more Freeview HD in the near future will have to buy the spectrum they need when its put up for auction by HM finest beancounters.

Theres no need for all fta HD satellite channels to be on 2D. News channels can go anywhere theres free slots across the satellites.

IMO there wont be any big expansion in HD transmissions for at least another 3 or 4 years - and by then SES will be starting to think of replacing their Astra 2 birds.

23-09-2008, 16:04	#1
linkinpark875 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 8,407	Future FTA HD channels? Are there any future free HD channels going to launch? All the ones I hear are pay like MTV, Sky Movies? I heard rumours of Five HD, Chart Show TV channels in HD, Film4 HD, E4 HD, ITV HD full launch on Sky? What's the chances of getting any of these? And if they do launch will they be available on Freesat from BBC and Freesat from Sky?

23-09-2008, 16:10	#2
Analoguesat Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scottish Borders Services: Sky Digital, and fta from /5E/7E/9E/10E/13E/ 16E/19E/23E/28E Posts: 17,232	It will be years before the market is ready to support those sorts of channels. Theres also the ever present problem of lack of capacity on 2D for fta HD channels from the main players. Id say 5HD is years away.

23-09-2008, 16:45	#5
linkinpark875 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 8,407	I thought Freesat offers a cheaper EPG slot than Sky so could it not encourage smaller channels to launch? Film4 and E4 HD could launch surely as they have plenty of HD content they just need space? and I thought they changed transponders recently? plus they bought out the Life TV channels a while back so do they not own something between 140 and 143?

23-09-2008, 17:34	#7
bignoise Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Services: Sky, Cable and Freeview Posts: 4,059	Future HD would seem to be a real problem for Freesat - there's not enough room on Astra 2D for all the SD channels that want to be there, let alone the HD channels which would take up four or five times as much space. That means that the only space left is on the satellites with a wider European footprint - and since Freesat offers no encryption to secure transmissions to the UK only, any new HD channels will have to have all-Europe rights for their programming. That, in turn, means that realistically the only kind of things you're going to see in HD for free are the kind of 'Europudding' channels like Luxe.TV. Unless Astra have any more 'tight beam' satellite launches planned for 28.2 degrees (I don't think so) I can't see this changing any time soon, unfortunately.

23-09-2008, 17:54	#9
linkinpark875 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 8,407	So what about the move of transponder from C4? How many HD channels can use the old space? Surely they have room for E4 HD and Film4 HD, they have the slots and HD programming to launch non simulcast services. Nothing to stop them having to part time HD versions say from 7pm to 1am. That would use up the same room as C4 HD would it not?

23-09-2008, 19:38	#11
michael_2008_ Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wakes Services: Analogue BBC/ITV/S4C, Freesat HD Posts: 206	I'd imagine five HD arriving in a few years, isn't it being trialed on DTT in London>

23-09-2008, 21:07	#13
linkinpark875 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 8,407	What about the rumours of Chart Show TV going HD? With MTV HD due music channels in HD would be good and they are widescreen at the moment?

23-09-2008, 21:10	#14
djmark Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Essex Services: Humax Freesat, Freeview+, BT BB Posts: 126	Are music videos being made in HD yet?

23-09-2008, 21:25	#16
CrystalAvenger Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: East Midlands Services: Freeview, Freesat (Humax Foxsat-HD), Nildram Max DSL, XBOX 360, Wii Posts: 1,966	There certainly are some HD music videos around as you get the occassional one available for download (sometimes even for free!) via the marketplace on Xbox 360 Live. One such video was for Kasabian's track 'Shoot The Runner'.

09-11-2009, 14:14	#18
linkinpark875 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 8,407	Here's a list of possible FTA HD channels: CNN HD Food Network HD Film4 HD More4 HD E4 HD Sky News HD Fashion TV HD ITV HD on the EPG Five HD Chart Show TV HD

09-11-2009, 16:53	#19
Lengster Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 588	If you ask me, the only one of those you'll see in the next three years is ITV HD on the EPG. Sky News HD is coming in 2010, but not to Freesat.

09-11-2009, 17:20	#20
mad_dude Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Services: SKY, Freesat HD, Freeview 20mb. PS3,CFW PSP 60gb (320gb),Wii, Saturn Posts: 3,674	Luxe TV HD will probably come to freesat at some point and channel 4 HD

09-11-2009, 19:25	#21
Clem Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 301	I'm seriously beginning to think that free HD via satellite is a lost proposition. The best way to get free HD will, I think be via Freeview, not Freesat. The lack of capacity on Astra 2D, coupled with $ky's attempts to make sure that we have to pay for HD content means I think that Freesat HD is pretty much dead in the water. BBC's attempts are welcome, but by contrast ITV's offerings have been pathetic. Without extra capacity surfacing on 2D I doubt if we'll see much change here over the next few years. Probably better to buy a blu-ray player then buy the HD versions of the programmes that you want to see - that's the only way I see most of us who don't want to pay a subscription getting HD, me included. Clem

10-11-2009, 16:11	#22
Lengster Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 588	To be fair, for a near-bankrupt company, ITV is managing to make a fair proportion of new shows in HD (comments about PQ aside).

10-11-2009, 16:18	#23
JonStatt Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 435	Actually there should really be egg on Freesat management faces. Because they should have predicted the issue around Astra 2D. This isn't just a barrier to HD channels, but further SD ones too. I guess the only solution would have been to set up a non-profit making consortium to administer and charge nominally for encryption cards and added CAM support into the Freesat standards. There is no guarantee when 2D comes up for replacement, that they will want to replace it with another satellite with restricted footprint. In fact I predict the opposite!