Piers Morgan walks up to Max and Sas and says.... - Big Brother

FogHeart · 07-09-2005, 11:18

"Excuse me - does it bother you that you have no talent?"

This is during a trailer for a coming documentary The Death of Celebrity on Ch4, 9pm Sunday. Basically he'll be talking about the rise of the 'pointless celebrity' and how we've come to accept that you can be famous for being married to someone famous - or famous for an outburst on Wife Swap - or for being on Big Brother. Basically having fame - fleeting, perhaps, not particularly high profile - without having any obvious talent to deserve it.

Piers Morgan, for those who are wondering where they've heard the name before, was the editor of the Daily Mirror until a bunch of photographs allegedly of squaddies torturing and humiliating a hooded Iraqi. The pictures were fake, as anyone with some knowledge of the military could have pointed out to him, but he still ran it on the front page and suffered the consequences.

Here's the point: he walks up to Max and Sas and asks a loaded question. If you didn't know the context in which he was asking that question, you'd take it purely as an insult. It's also telling that he asks it in full public view and it circumstances where, even if they could, they cannot give him a lengthly, considered reply. Indeed it suits Piers better if Max and Sas react purely on an emotional level, proving his point to some degree.

I just find it hypocritical. Those photos that landed on his desk were designed to elicit a purely emotional response from Piers and would not benefit the sender if the photos underwent close scrutiny. And here he is asking a question designed to elicit an emotional response from Max and Sas and engineering the situation so that they cannot assess it with a cool head, which is exactly what Piers doesn't want.

We're probably going to see an hour's worth of programme bemoaning the fact that a decade ago, if you were asked 'Have you ever met someone famous' the answer was a definite Yes or No, whereas now the definition of famous is far more nebulous. "Well, does an ex BB housemate from 3 years ago count?"

It's simple really. Why do we have to have such a heavy hierarchy of celebrities, running from A to Z list? Because we want to, because we want to. If we didn't want them, they wouldn't be there. We're happy to have celebs that don't burn brightly or for very long, even if it makes Piers' job more difficult. Even if it's just because we like to pour scorn on them. Hey, look, too thin, too much cellulite, what awful fashion sense.

Back to Max and Sas. Should it bother them that they have no talent? The question can mean two things:-

1) Do you feel at all guilty that you have achieved whatever status you have without offering much in return?

2) Are you worried that, since you can provide little of value to earn your crust, your fame will be low-key and short-lived? (see Jon Tickle's article on this too!)

The answer to no 1 is as far as I am concerned, no. Their status as minor celebs has been conferred upon them willingly by the public, and will be taken away just as willingly. No one is forcing people to pay attention to Max and Sas. They are merely being given the option, and enough people are watching to afford them the status of Z list.

If Piers means question 2, then the answer is Yes. They'll disappear from view far quicker than they might guess without finding a way to give something back to the public. And if they want to avoid the drop they have to know what they can do, study and hone their craft, and work every hour God sends them.

We don't know who of the housemates are doing this - judging from the What the Housemates Did Next programmes it wasn't many of them, and those that do it all seems vague and not planned thoroughly enough. The Catch 22 is that if you did have a career plan as a celeb it looks like you weren't the kind of housemate we wanted to see anyway - 'just' a media wannabe.

bom-jiggy · 07-09-2005, 11:25

Max and Sas shouldn't even be called zelebrities

metafis · 07-09-2005, 11:33

Good Post FogHeart

Being a celeb isnt all about having an artistic talent, its about being in the public conciousness.

07-09-2005, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bom-jiggy

Max and Sas shouldn't even be called zelebrities

or zombies.

Overseer · 07-09-2005, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by bom-jiggy

Max and Sas shouldn't even be called zelebrities

how about ZZzzzzzz'lebrities

CLL Dodge · 07-09-2005, 11:54

Piers Morgan is an arse. Whoever selected him to front that show was surely taking the piss.

toweroffrance · 07-09-2005, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBDodge

Piers Morgan is an arse. Whoever selected him to front that show was surely taking the piss.

Given the content of one of those fake Iraq photos, I assume you meant to include "

" after "taking the piss"?

SparkleBabe · 07-09-2005, 11:58

He's right, they do have no talent whatsoever. I hate them why can't they just disapear. Nasty pieces of work that they are!

CLL Dodge · 07-09-2005, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by toweroffrance

Given the content of one of those fake Iraq photos, I assume you meant to include "

" after "taking the piss"?

Ha! I'd forgotten about that.

TVR bird · 07-09-2005, 12:04

I find it amazing the the prize pratt Piers Morgan is even asking the question when for years he made his crust putting them all over the 'red tops'!

I don't begrudge anyone their 15 minutes of fame and making whatever money they can.

Talent or not if the papers didn't put them in the papers they would be forgotten about by now. Forget the BB contestants if you look in any of the tabloids and remove the 'famous for being famous' people and they would be empty. The whole question is a bit of a chicken and egg in my opinion.

bom-jiggy · 07-09-2005, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVR bird

I find it amazing the the prize pratt Piers Morgan is even asking the question when for years he made his crust putting them all over the 'red tops'!

I don't begrudge anyone their 15 minutes of fame and making whatever money they can.

Talent or not if the papers didn't put them in the papers they would be forgotten about by now. Forget the BB contestants if you look in any of the tabloids and remove the 'famous for being famous' people and they would be empty. The whole question is a bit of a chicken and egg in my opinion.

Ah, but years ago, before the dawn of "instant celebrity" the papers were still full of news stories

. I don't remember anyone complaining then about the content

Tiny Black Dog · 07-09-2005, 12:12

horrid pair of people.

bom-jiggy · 07-09-2005, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiny Black Dog

horrid pair of people.

Though their relationship might be genuine ( I personally don't believe it is) it's just the way it appears to have been completely orchestrated for fame and fortune that annoys me

07-09-2005, 12:22

Good post FogHeart. The questions I would ask are:

1. what right does that talentless tw*t, Pierse Morgan, have to question anybody's talent or lack of it?

2. How many TV licence payers would wish their hard earned cash to be spent on employing that public school gobsh**e?

3. Which projects has Morgan been involved in, that he hasn't managed to f**k up?

Let's face it, that t**ds greatest moment was when Jeremy Clarkson gave him a well deserved fat lip at that awards dinner last year. It was for me, anyway.

Nicki_r_p · 07-09-2005, 12:31

These reality TV bashing programmes are tiresome. I don't get how they moan about how unworthy of fame it's participants are, and yet devote an hour or so TV time to them - featuring many of them, and extending their 15 minutes further!

Maxwell and Saskia are perfectly aware that their fame will most probably be fleeting, and so are making the most of it whilst they can, like the vast majority of BB housemates. I would do the same - I'm sure most people would.

I spent a couple of hours with them on Sunday, and enjoyed talking to them. I didn't intend to say anything on here, cos I know I'd get the usual responses, with the usual stupid Slagskia and Pigswill comments, but to set a couple of records straight:
They've never heard of Digital spy, therefore it wasn't them posting the other week. (Quelle surprise!!!)

Saskia hates kebabs, therefore she wasn't spotting chomping on one in Kingston!

They both went to Scotland, they have not split up, and they are looking for a place together at the moment.

thebunster · 07-09-2005, 12:31

It doesn't matter that Max & Sas have no evident talent. Fact is, that for money to be made the public has to be interested in them as a product. They have made themselves marketable, to some degree, and are exploiting that for their own gain - and fair play to them I say!

Some people criticise 'instant celebrities' without remembering that it is the public that keep celebrities going, not the other way round.

Do we really need Piers Morgan to point out the startlingly obvious fact that celebrity and talent are not the same thing?

Why should Max & Saskia care that they don't have any obvious talents? Are they supposed to wring their hands and hand back their pay cheques in a fit of remorse?

(P.S: What talents does Piers Morgan have?)

Jeanie · 07-09-2005, 12:32

Although I agree with most of the sentiment about Piers Morgan on here, I do think that the question is fair in a way.

None of the BB contestants past or present have had any particular 'talent' - in that they are not great singers, sportsmen, actors, artists etc. - yet they have become famous purely for the fact they have been on a reality t.v. show (cue Lizzie Bardsley

)

However, I would suggest that many of the BB contestants have come to believe that they are special in a definite way because they were 'the chosen ones' to appear on the programme.

You will often hear during conversation in the house something along the lines of "I'm so proud to have got this far" - "I couldn't believe they chose me" - "They must have seen something in me that suggested I would make a good housemate" - so some of the HMs have had some seed planted in them that they 'deserve' their place in the house, and any ensuing success purely for being themselves.

In other words - I doubt if somebody like Max or Saskia would worry that they have no 'talent' as such - they would probably firmly believe that their 'talent' is just being who they are.

FogHeart · 07-09-2005, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimmy

Good post FogHeart. The questions I would ask are:

1. what right does that talentless tw*t, Pierse Morgan, have to question anybody's talent or lack of it?

2. How many TV licence payers would wish their hard earned cash to be spent on employing that public school gobsh**e?

3. Which projects has Morgan been involved in, that he hasn't managed to f**k up?

Let's face it, that t**ds greatest moment was when Jeremy Clarkson gave him a well deserved fat lip at that awards dinner last year. It was for me, anyway.

He used to do an interview programme on Ch4 at 6pm on Saturday with Amanda Platell where they interviewed a politician at length. I caught one with Robin Cook. It looked fair and balanced, challenging him on his stance without making the interview about the interviewerer (the way Paxman does). It looked like a good political programme. I don't want to pass judgement too soon on this documentary but if he wants to be taken more seriously - the TV programmes seem to appeal more to a broadsheet reader than a tablod reader - then he really shouldn't resort to tabloid-style baiting questions like the one he gave Max and Sas. Slap on the wrist, Piers.

Dangerman · 07-09-2005, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebunster

(P.S: What talents does Piers Morgan have?)

About the same ones as Max as far as I can see

CLL Dodge · 07-09-2005, 12:39

Isn't Piers Morgan a Gooner, like Max?

07-09-2005, 12:39

Oh lord, is this the same series in which we will see Kate Lawler appear in a fat suit and perform a comedy sketch to demonstrate "hidden talents of celebs?" In the case of Kate, they must be very well hidden.

Make me laugh when Piers does these "exploring" fame series because it's pretty clear that all he want to do is be famous himself.

CLL Dodge · 07-09-2005, 12:42

What price Piers Morgan for CBB4?

bom-jiggy · 07-09-2005, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebunster

Some people criticise 'instant celebrities' without remembering that it is the public that keep celebrities going, not the other way round.

Not really!!! In recent times, they've become unavoidable because the newspapers and magazines are full of them: they force them on us

Fair enough, some people buy these papers/mags cos they're on the cover etc but what i want to know is, all those years ago when we didn't have these sorts of zelebrities, weren't we entertained

Bluestone · 07-09-2005, 12:59

I don't like Max & Sas, they are simply vile but I was shocked when I heard what he said to them.

It will do them good. they swan around like they are not vile people whilst being vile witha super high opinion of themselves.

He's only given them something to think about that they just would not have even considered.

Hamlet77 · 07-09-2005, 13:08

Well sorry it's a b****y good question and I would like to know the answer, not just from maskia, Kemal especially, self proclaimed Diva and Drama Queen that he is.

Who cares if it embarrasses the gruesome twosome, they did enough of that in the house that received far more publicity, but of course they thought they were the golden couple at the time and were about to embark on a glittering lifestyle of premiers and parties.

Porr Piers if only he had stuck to what he is good at insted of doing dodgy deals in shares (allegedly) and accepting iffy photos as true he might not be in the sad state of affairs of having to corner ex BB HMs. and ask embarrassing questions.

07-09-2005, 11:18	#1
FogHeart Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 57	Piers Morgan walks up to Max and Sas and says.... "Excuse me - does it bother you that you have no talent?" This is during a trailer for a coming documentary The Death of Celebrity on Ch4, 9pm Sunday. Basically he'll be talking about the rise of the 'pointless celebrity' and how we've come to accept that you can be famous for being married to someone famous - or famous for an outburst on Wife Swap - or for being on Big Brother. Basically having fame - fleeting, perhaps, not particularly high profile - without having any obvious talent to deserve it. Piers Morgan, for those who are wondering where they've heard the name before, was the editor of the Daily Mirror until a bunch of photographs allegedly of squaddies torturing and humiliating a hooded Iraqi. The pictures were fake, as anyone with some knowledge of the military could have pointed out to him, but he still ran it on the front page and suffered the consequences. Here's the point: he walks up to Max and Sas and asks a loaded question. If you didn't know the context in which he was asking that question, you'd take it purely as an insult. It's also telling that he asks it in full public view and it circumstances where, even if they could, they cannot give him a lengthly, considered reply. Indeed it suits Piers better if Max and Sas react purely on an emotional level, proving his point to some degree. I just find it hypocritical. Those photos that landed on his desk were designed to elicit a purely emotional response from Piers and would not benefit the sender if the photos underwent close scrutiny. And here he is asking a question designed to elicit an emotional response from Max and Sas and engineering the situation so that they cannot assess it with a cool head, which is exactly what Piers doesn't want. We're probably going to see an hour's worth of programme bemoaning the fact that a decade ago, if you were asked 'Have you ever met someone famous' the answer was a definite Yes or No, whereas now the definition of famous is far more nebulous. "Well, does an ex BB housemate from 3 years ago count?" It's simple really. Why do we have to have such a heavy hierarchy of celebrities, running from A to Z list? Because we want to, because we want to. If we didn't want them, they wouldn't be there. We're happy to have celebs that don't burn brightly or for very long, even if it makes Piers' job more difficult. Even if it's just because we like to pour scorn on them. Hey, look, too thin, too much cellulite, what awful fashion sense. Back to Max and Sas. Should it bother them that they have no talent? The question can mean two things:- 1) Do you feel at all guilty that you have achieved whatever status you have without offering much in return? 2) Are you worried that, since you can provide little of value to earn your crust, your fame will be low-key and short-lived? (see Jon Tickle's article on this too!) The answer to no 1 is as far as I am concerned, no. Their status as minor celebs has been conferred upon them willingly by the public, and will be taken away just as willingly. No one is forcing people to pay attention to Max and Sas. They are merely being given the option, and enough people are watching to afford them the status of Z list. If Piers means question 2, then the answer is Yes. They'll disappear from view far quicker than they might guess without finding a way to give something back to the public. And if they want to avoid the drop they have to know what they can do, study and hone their craft, and work every hour God sends them. We don't know who of the housemates are doing this - judging from the What the Housemates Did Next programmes it wasn't many of them, and those that do it all seems vague and not planned thoroughly enough. The Catch 22 is that if you did have a career plan as a celeb it looks like you weren't the kind of housemate we wanted to see anyway - 'just' a media wannabe.

07-09-2005, 11:25	#2
bom-jiggy Banned User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15,363	Max and Sas shouldn't even be called zelebrities

07-09-2005, 11:33	#3
metafis Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kataan Posts: 10,937	Good Post FogHeart Being a celeb isnt all about having an artistic talent, its about being in the public conciousness.

07-09-2005, 11:54	#6
CLL Dodge Forum Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Surrey Posts: 40,270	Piers Morgan is an arse. Whoever selected him to front that show was surely taking the piss.

07-09-2005, 11:58	#8
SparkleBabe Inactive Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: My House Services: Sky+, Top Up TV, AOL Posts: 15,938 Blog Entries: 3	He's right, they do have no talent whatsoever. I hate them why can't they just disapear. Nasty pieces of work that they are!

07-09-2005, 12:04	#10
TVR bird Banned User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sitting on the beach Services: Growing old disgracefully Posts: 287	I find it amazing the the prize pratt Piers Morgan is even asking the question when for years he made his crust putting them all over the 'red tops'! I don't begrudge anyone their 15 minutes of fame and making whatever money they can. Talent or not if the papers didn't put them in the papers they would be forgotten about by now. Forget the BB contestants if you look in any of the tabloids and remove the 'famous for being famous' people and they would be empty. The whole question is a bit of a chicken and egg in my opinion.

07-09-2005, 12:12	#12
Tiny Black Dog Banned User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 305	horrid pair of people.

07-09-2005, 12:22	#14
zimmy Posts: n/a	Good post FogHeart. The questions I would ask are: 1. what right does that talentless twt, Pierse Morgan, have to question anybody's talent or lack of it? 2. How many TV licence payers would wish their hard earned cash to be spent on employing that public school gobshe? 3. Which projects has Morgan been involved in, that he hasn't managed to fk up? Let's face it, that t*ds greatest moment was when Jeremy Clarkson gave him a well deserved fat lip at that awards dinner last year. It was for me, anyway.

07-09-2005, 12:31	#15
Nicki_r_p Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Staffs / West Mids Posts: 542	These reality TV bashing programmes are tiresome. I don't get how they moan about how unworthy of fame it's participants are, and yet devote an hour or so TV time to them - featuring many of them, and extending their 15 minutes further! Maxwell and Saskia are perfectly aware that their fame will most probably be fleeting, and so are making the most of it whilst they can, like the vast majority of BB housemates. I would do the same - I'm sure most people would. I spent a couple of hours with them on Sunday, and enjoyed talking to them. I didn't intend to say anything on here, cos I know I'd get the usual responses, with the usual stupid Slagskia and Pigswill comments, but to set a couple of records straight: They've never heard of Digital spy, therefore it wasn't them posting the other week. (Quelle surprise!!!) Saskia hates kebabs, therefore she wasn't spotting chomping on one in Kingston! They both went to Scotland, they have not split up, and they are looking for a place together at the moment.

07-09-2005, 12:31	#16
thebunster Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 283	It doesn't matter that Max & Sas have no evident talent. Fact is, that for money to be made the public has to be interested in them as a product. They have made themselves marketable, to some degree, and are exploiting that for their own gain - and fair play to them I say! Some people criticise 'instant celebrities' without remembering that it is the public that keep celebrities going, not the other way round. Do we really need Piers Morgan to point out the startlingly obvious fact that celebrity and talent are not the same thing? Why should Max & Saskia care that they don't have any obvious talents? Are they supposed to wring their hands and hand back their pay cheques in a fit of remorse? (P.S: What talents does Piers Morgan have?)

07-09-2005, 12:32	#17
Jeanie Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kent Posts: 3,867 Blog Entries: 1	Although I agree with most of the sentiment about Piers Morgan on here, I do think that the question is fair in a way. None of the BB contestants past or present have had any particular 'talent' - in that they are not great singers, sportsmen, actors, artists etc. - yet they have become famous purely for the fact they have been on a reality t.v. show (cue Lizzie Bardsley ) However, I would suggest that many of the BB contestants have come to believe that they are special in a definite way because they were 'the chosen ones' to appear on the programme. You will often hear during conversation in the house something along the lines of "I'm so proud to have got this far" - "I couldn't believe they chose me" - "They must have seen something in me that suggested I would make a good housemate" - so some of the HMs have had some seed planted in them that they 'deserve' their place in the house, and any ensuing success purely for being themselves. In other words - I doubt if somebody like Max or Saskia would worry that they have no 'talent' as such - they would probably firmly believe that their 'talent' is just being who they are.

07-09-2005, 12:39	#20
CLL Dodge Forum Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Surrey Posts: 40,270	Isn't Piers Morgan a Gooner, like Max?

07-09-2005, 12:39	#21
Emzi Posts: n/a	Oh lord, is this the same series in which we will see Kate Lawler appear in a fat suit and perform a comedy sketch to demonstrate "hidden talents of celebs?" In the case of Kate, they must be very well hidden. Make me laugh when Piers does these "exploring" fame series because it's pretty clear that all he want to do is be famous himself.

07-09-2005, 12:42	#22
CLL Dodge Forum Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Surrey Posts: 40,270	What price Piers Morgan for CBB4?

07-09-2005, 12:59	#24
Bluestone Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 479	I don't like Max & Sas, they are simply vile but I was shocked when I heard what he said to them. It will do them good. they swan around like they are not vile people whilst being vile witha super high opinion of themselves. He's only given them something to think about that they just would not have even considered.

07-09-2005, 13:08	#25
Hamlet77 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Liverpool. Champions of Europe Services: BT EIGHT MEG nose bleed fast, btmobile, Celebdaq = Vilnius Posts: 12,429	Well sorry it's a b****y good question and I would like to know the answer, not just from maskia, Kemal especially, self proclaimed Diva and Drama Queen that he is. Who cares if it embarrasses the gruesome twosome, they did enough of that in the house that received far more publicity, but of course they thought they were the golden couple at the time and were about to embark on a glittering lifestyle of premiers and parties. Porr Piers if only he had stuck to what he is good at insted of doing dodgy deals in shares (allegedly) and accepting iffy photos as true he might not be in the sad state of affairs of having to corner ex BB HMs. and ask embarrassing questions.