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Live: 'Torchwood' panel at Comic-Con
Published Sunday, Jul 26 2009, 23:01 BST | By Neil Wilkes | 60 comments
3.00pm: The panel begins with an extended recap of Children Of Earth, which was broadcast on BBC America in the US over the last week.
3.04pm: The panellists come out: exec producer Julie Gardner, director Euros Lyn, creator Russell T Davies and John 'Tarrrrrchwood' Barrowman.
3.05pm: Chants of "we want Ianto!" from the crowd!
3.06pm: JG on idea: "Practically, the show was moving on to BBC One in the UK. Part of the discussion about that move was how to make it feel like a really big event. Then Russell started to think about stories." RTD: "We had to make it bigger, stronger and had to make it work. I suppose the intensity came up with that. If it hadn't worked, that would have been the end of Torchwood."
3.08pm: JB on US reponse to TW: "First off the response in the UK has been absolutely brilliant. But we've found a second home in the US on BBC America, and to be able to launch BBC America HD the way we have, and have the ratings we have, we've done amazingly well. The American audiences have taken to us like a duck to water. We always wanted it to happen but didn't expect it to in the way it did. Thankyou thankyou thankyou!"
3.10pm: Euros: "When you're making something of that scale on our budget, it's a huge ask. We had great support from our crew and execs." JB: "You were pretty damn good yourself. Euros has an amazing track record with Doctor Who. You did an amazing job. And he's also very cute, isn't he?"
3.12pm: JB says he's trying to avoid double-entendres then advises the under 18s to "watch and learn" as he proceeds to flirt with Euros.
3.14pm: RTD on decision not to show The 456 in full: "That was a decision right away in the script. There are millions of films and TV programmes with these creatures in, so I thought let's go the other way. Let's pretend it's like the 1960s and you can't afford to build something! It's just more scary." JB: "One of the most frightening bits was that you didn't see it but then you saw the child hanging in the cage."
3.15pm: Praise for Lois Habeba from the moderator. RTD is smirking. More of her in future? "Too soon to say really. Not necessarily. I hate the thought of Lois taking Tosh's place, so I'm quite loathed to have people literally replacing people who've gone. But if I get the chance to work with Cush again, I would jump at the chance."
3.17pm: JB on CJ's history with The 456: "We go back to the darker side of Jack and the secrets that Jack has, the pressures, drama and the trauma he's carrying on his shoulders. There was a concern that the audience wouldn't like him any more. He makes tough decisions in these five episodes but it's decisions to save humanity. He will do anything in his power to save the situation or humanity. So when I read all of the stuff he had to do, I had to look at it from the point of view of 'I'm Jack Harkness and I'm right'."
3.19pm: The subject of Ianto comes up. Much boos. JB: "Remember it's the excitement.. we always said in the beginning, people die young in Torchwood. It's very sad but life has to go on. He was hot."
3.20pm: JG: "For me it was a no-brainer that Ianto died at the end of episode four. It was right for the story because CJ had to suffer. He was about to go to a dark place so to take him to that place he had to suffer. The man that he loves was the cost of making CJ a hero."
3.22pm: Question time from the audience. Girl asks a boring question about their opinions on Comic-Con, because she "couldn't think of another question to ask". Jog on, love.
3.23pm: She also asks JB for a hug. Back off, little madam.
3.25pm: JB on fan reaction to COE: "I watched it on TV like everybody else. And as soon as the episodes were over, we go on to Twitter. The night that Ianto died, on Twitter Ianto beat out Michael Jackson! The reactions that the fans have are incredible."
3.26pm: RTD says he is "still reeling" from the success of COE and says no-one at the BBC saw it coming.
3.27pm: RTD asked about how he wrote a series that would appeal to US and UK. "To be honest, I don't at all. I don't sit and think about an audience at all, I just sit and think about what makes me happy. I think you're here because you like the Britishness of it."
3.28pm: Guy from audience asks a good question about the differences in CJ between TW and Who. JB: "I see Jack in DW as being part of a team where he's not the leader. He's there to assist. In that case The Doctor calls the shots and Jack ends up firing them. As an actor, I look at it as Jack chilling out a bit, whereas in TW he's the leader of the team, he makes the decisions and gets challenged sometimes. Gwen's a strong character. That's the difference."
3.30pm: RTD: "We're all different in different circumstances. So good characters do just that, they just shift depending on their role."
3.33pm: Girl claims that RTD has "hurt" a lot of internet fans and accuses him of being "out of line" with killing Ianto. "I'm immensely sorry if people are sad, but I'm not changing my mind. I've got to be blunt about this, there have been campaigns to send packets of coffee to BBC Wales in protest. There have been nine packets sent. I'm not taking the mickey, but that's a very small number."
3.35pm: JB: "They've done something fun to raise money for Children In Need and have raised $2,700 in a fun way to mourn Ianto. That's the kind of thing that's really appreciated." JG: "We want people to be engaged, discuss and not always agree with us. At the end of the day, I make drama to support each author's vision. It's not a democracy. Whether people like it or not, it's storytelling."
3.36pm: A question is asked that begins "speaking as a bisexual woman". JB on being a role model: "I didn't get into the industry to be that, but it's happened. There comes a point where you have to look at yourself and ask if you can make a difference. But it's people like Julie and Russell that put this type of character on television. He represents who we are."
3.38pm: JB: "Let's have more characters on television. And let's have more John Barrowman on television. I think I'd shake up a US network, don't you?"
3.39pm: JB on musical episode of Torchwood: "No. It doesn't lend itself to that, as much as my musical side would love that. I get to do that in film, on stage, so it probably won't happen." RTD: "When Buffy The Vampire Slayer did that, you could not top that. You couldn't even try. It was perfect."
3.40pm: JB talks about changing the lyrics to 'The Wizard And I' to 'The Doctor And I' and doing it as a track on his next album.
3.41pm: More backlash over Ianto. How did JB feel about the death scene? "When we played that scene [of him dying] it was very sad, but again, we had come to terms with it. It was hard to look in his eyes and see death happen, even though you're pretending."
3.43pm: JB recalls winding Eve Myles up while filming the bodybag scene. He says in one take he hid behind the bodybag with a handlebar moustache painted on and when she unzipped the bag, he began singing 'Let Me Entertain You'.
3.45pm: Some unintelligible question about Frobisher. RTD: "He's just an ordinary man who's been in that suit for 40 years. Suddenly everything starts revolving around him. He's not a villain, just an ordinary man with big problems."
3.46pm: Final question, it's about La Cage aux Folles. JB advises the audience to fly over to see him. "If I say so myself, I look pretty damn fine in a dress."
3.48pm: And on that note, panel over! Thanks for joining us.
3.04pm: The panellists come out: exec producer Julie Gardner, director Euros Lyn, creator Russell T Davies and John 'Tarrrrrchwood' Barrowman.
3.05pm: Chants of "we want Ianto!" from the crowd!
3.06pm: JG on idea: "Practically, the show was moving on to BBC One in the UK. Part of the discussion about that move was how to make it feel like a really big event. Then Russell started to think about stories." RTD: "We had to make it bigger, stronger and had to make it work. I suppose the intensity came up with that. If it hadn't worked, that would have been the end of Torchwood."
3.08pm: JB on US reponse to TW: "First off the response in the UK has been absolutely brilliant. But we've found a second home in the US on BBC America, and to be able to launch BBC America HD the way we have, and have the ratings we have, we've done amazingly well. The American audiences have taken to us like a duck to water. We always wanted it to happen but didn't expect it to in the way it did. Thankyou thankyou thankyou!"
3.10pm: Euros: "When you're making something of that scale on our budget, it's a huge ask. We had great support from our crew and execs." JB: "You were pretty damn good yourself. Euros has an amazing track record with Doctor Who. You did an amazing job. And he's also very cute, isn't he?"
3.12pm: JB says he's trying to avoid double-entendres then advises the under 18s to "watch and learn" as he proceeds to flirt with Euros.
3.14pm: RTD on decision not to show The 456 in full: "That was a decision right away in the script. There are millions of films and TV programmes with these creatures in, so I thought let's go the other way. Let's pretend it's like the 1960s and you can't afford to build something! It's just more scary." JB: "One of the most frightening bits was that you didn't see it but then you saw the child hanging in the cage."
3.15pm: Praise for Lois Habeba from the moderator. RTD is smirking. More of her in future? "Too soon to say really. Not necessarily. I hate the thought of Lois taking Tosh's place, so I'm quite loathed to have people literally replacing people who've gone. But if I get the chance to work with Cush again, I would jump at the chance."
3.17pm: JB on CJ's history with The 456: "We go back to the darker side of Jack and the secrets that Jack has, the pressures, drama and the trauma he's carrying on his shoulders. There was a concern that the audience wouldn't like him any more. He makes tough decisions in these five episodes but it's decisions to save humanity. He will do anything in his power to save the situation or humanity. So when I read all of the stuff he had to do, I had to look at it from the point of view of 'I'm Jack Harkness and I'm right'."
3.19pm: The subject of Ianto comes up. Much boos. JB: "Remember it's the excitement.. we always said in the beginning, people die young in Torchwood. It's very sad but life has to go on. He was hot."
3.20pm: JG: "For me it was a no-brainer that Ianto died at the end of episode four. It was right for the story because CJ had to suffer. He was about to go to a dark place so to take him to that place he had to suffer. The man that he loves was the cost of making CJ a hero."
3.22pm: Question time from the audience. Girl asks a boring question about their opinions on Comic-Con, because she "couldn't think of another question to ask". Jog on, love.
3.23pm: She also asks JB for a hug. Back off, little madam.
3.25pm: JB on fan reaction to COE: "I watched it on TV like everybody else. And as soon as the episodes were over, we go on to Twitter. The night that Ianto died, on Twitter Ianto beat out Michael Jackson! The reactions that the fans have are incredible."
3.26pm: RTD says he is "still reeling" from the success of COE and says no-one at the BBC saw it coming.
3.27pm: RTD asked about how he wrote a series that would appeal to US and UK. "To be honest, I don't at all. I don't sit and think about an audience at all, I just sit and think about what makes me happy. I think you're here because you like the Britishness of it."
3.28pm: Guy from audience asks a good question about the differences in CJ between TW and Who. JB: "I see Jack in DW as being part of a team where he's not the leader. He's there to assist. In that case The Doctor calls the shots and Jack ends up firing them. As an actor, I look at it as Jack chilling out a bit, whereas in TW he's the leader of the team, he makes the decisions and gets challenged sometimes. Gwen's a strong character. That's the difference."
3.30pm: RTD: "We're all different in different circumstances. So good characters do just that, they just shift depending on their role."
3.33pm: Girl claims that RTD has "hurt" a lot of internet fans and accuses him of being "out of line" with killing Ianto. "I'm immensely sorry if people are sad, but I'm not changing my mind. I've got to be blunt about this, there have been campaigns to send packets of coffee to BBC Wales in protest. There have been nine packets sent. I'm not taking the mickey, but that's a very small number."
3.35pm: JB: "They've done something fun to raise money for Children In Need and have raised $2,700 in a fun way to mourn Ianto. That's the kind of thing that's really appreciated." JG: "We want people to be engaged, discuss and not always agree with us. At the end of the day, I make drama to support each author's vision. It's not a democracy. Whether people like it or not, it's storytelling."
3.36pm: A question is asked that begins "speaking as a bisexual woman". JB on being a role model: "I didn't get into the industry to be that, but it's happened. There comes a point where you have to look at yourself and ask if you can make a difference. But it's people like Julie and Russell that put this type of character on television. He represents who we are."
3.38pm: JB: "Let's have more characters on television. And let's have more John Barrowman on television. I think I'd shake up a US network, don't you?"
3.39pm: JB on musical episode of Torchwood: "No. It doesn't lend itself to that, as much as my musical side would love that. I get to do that in film, on stage, so it probably won't happen." RTD: "When Buffy The Vampire Slayer did that, you could not top that. You couldn't even try. It was perfect."
3.40pm: JB talks about changing the lyrics to 'The Wizard And I' to 'The Doctor And I' and doing it as a track on his next album.
3.41pm: More backlash over Ianto. How did JB feel about the death scene? "When we played that scene [of him dying] it was very sad, but again, we had come to terms with it. It was hard to look in his eyes and see death happen, even though you're pretending."
3.43pm: JB recalls winding Eve Myles up while filming the bodybag scene. He says in one take he hid behind the bodybag with a handlebar moustache painted on and when she unzipped the bag, he began singing 'Let Me Entertain You'.
3.45pm: Some unintelligible question about Frobisher. RTD: "He's just an ordinary man who's been in that suit for 40 years. Suddenly everything starts revolving around him. He's not a villain, just an ordinary man with big problems."
3.46pm: Final question, it's about La Cage aux Folles. JB advises the audience to fly over to see him. "If I say so myself, I look pretty damn fine in a dress."
3.48pm: And on that note, panel over! Thanks for joining us.
Your Views
60 Comments
Your Responses
Sandra Nelson, Toronto, on September 22nd, 2009
I have seen the clips on youtube of this panel. JB is a force of diabolical fun and frolic! I know it is hard for people to except the loss of favorite characters, but the loss of Captain Jack and Torchwood would be worse!
I have seen the clips on youtube of this panel. JB is a force of diabolical fun and frolic! I know it is hard for people to except the loss of favorite characters, but the loss of Captain Jack and Torchwood would be worse!
Holly, Westport Washington, on August 23rd, 2009
I was one of Three (3) people who stood up at the panel and shouted the "we...We Want... We Want Ianto." That was it. That's all the protest, after talking to (what felt like) over a hundred people, 3 of us stood up and yelled. Oh well, it was good fun anyway, and I respect Russel hugely as a writer, but that doesn't mean I have to like the fact he killed Ianto, but I can't change the fact he did. Can't wait for next year!
I was one of Three (3) people who stood up at the panel and shouted the "we...We Want... We Want Ianto." That was it. That's all the protest, after talking to (what felt like) over a hundred people, 3 of us stood up and yelled. Oh well, it was good fun anyway, and I respect Russel hugely as a writer, but that doesn't mean I have to like the fact he killed Ianto, but I can't change the fact he did. Can't wait for next year!
Maisie, Leicester, on August 6th, 2009
Can't believe RTD says he writes for himself. He should be writing for audiences. I've decided i'm gonna botcott Torchwood from now on. Anyone want to join me?
Can't believe RTD says he writes for himself. He should be writing for audiences. I've decided i'm gonna botcott Torchwood from now on. Anyone want to join me?
Katie, London, on August 6th, 2009
I found RTD's comments hurtful- he's so dismissive of fan's opinions- does he even care how we feel?? I'm a big supporter of the Save Ianto Jones Campaign and don't think we should let it go at all. RTD might not care, but we do
I found RTD's comments hurtful- he's so dismissive of fan's opinions- does he even care how we feel?? I'm a big supporter of the Save Ianto Jones Campaign and don't think we should let it go at all. RTD might not care, but we do
Rebecca, UK, on July 29th, 2009
I was at the panel and RTD came across as a complete knob (as I kind of expected). Luckily Barrowman was interesting, entertaining and diffused the situation. I'm no big campaigner and I don't mind the death, but RTD seems to really believe some of the press reports about his brilliance.. which saddens me.
I was at the panel and RTD came across as a complete knob (as I kind of expected). Luckily Barrowman was interesting, entertaining and diffused the situation. I'm no big campaigner and I don't mind the death, but RTD seems to really believe some of the press reports about his brilliance.. which saddens me.
Carrie, UK, on July 28th, 2009
I'm a big fan of Ianto, he was my fav character from episode one. I'm part of the Save Ianto movement and I'm proud of the fact that we have use our time and money to show respect for someone by raising money for charity. I think it's great, over £3500 for children in need so far. http://www.justgiving.com/iantojones/ I have always respected writers and producers, the story lines they create and film. After all it's their show to do with as they will even if I don't like the story or what they do with it. What I cannot stand is the rudeness and damn right contempt that RTD has shown the shows fans. Note I said the shows fans because I think RTD has lost a lot of his own personal fans with his comments in recent interviews. Accusing the fans of wanting nothing more than to see Jack and Ianto have sex, really RTD you think so highly of your fans that you cannot believe that they actually wanted to see a relationship - it wasn't about the sex. Then talking down about those fans supporting Save Ianto Jones. RTD is making out like it's only one or two people when in reality it is a large group. Hundreds of packets of coffee have been sent, postcards from all over the world, e-mails from many people - so many in fact that the BBC had to set up a special automated e-mail message to deal with the Ianto effect. It's not like the campaign is sending rude and distasteful message, they support the polite and calm style campaign. RTD should be grateful and proud that he created a character people love so much, instead he does little more than slap fans in the face with harsh comments. Due to the recent interviews, not the death of Ianto, my respect for RTD has flown out the window.
I'm a big fan of Ianto, he was my fav character from episode one. I'm part of the Save Ianto movement and I'm proud of the fact that we have use our time and money to show respect for someone by raising money for charity. I think it's great, over £3500 for children in need so far. http://www.justgiving.com/iantojones/ I have always respected writers and producers, the story lines they create and film. After all it's their show to do with as they will even if I don't like the story or what they do with it. What I cannot stand is the rudeness and damn right contempt that RTD has shown the shows fans. Note I said the shows fans because I think RTD has lost a lot of his own personal fans with his comments in recent interviews. Accusing the fans of wanting nothing more than to see Jack and Ianto have sex, really RTD you think so highly of your fans that you cannot believe that they actually wanted to see a relationship - it wasn't about the sex. Then talking down about those fans supporting Save Ianto Jones. RTD is making out like it's only one or two people when in reality it is a large group. Hundreds of packets of coffee have been sent, postcards from all over the world, e-mails from many people - so many in fact that the BBC had to set up a special automated e-mail message to deal with the Ianto effect. It's not like the campaign is sending rude and distasteful message, they support the polite and calm style campaign. RTD should be grateful and proud that he created a character people love so much, instead he does little more than slap fans in the face with harsh comments. Due to the recent interviews, not the death of Ianto, my respect for RTD has flown out the window.
Lian, Dublin, on July 28th, 2009
Will you people who are still rending your clothes and pouring ashes on your head over the death of Ianto (and attendant 'Janto') stop calling yourselves 'the audience' and making out that RTD hates 'the fans'?! You are ONE section of the Torchwood audience/fandom...and contrary to your beliefs you are not the majority. Most of us came to TW as Jack fans from DW and/or as SF fans in general. A great many of us didn't even particularly find Ianto interesting till more recently...and still feel a greater connection to Gwen, Tosh, Owen, even Rhys! We've all of us lost favourite characters in shows we've loved, so get over it! He died well and was mourned. All this stuff, just sounds like a freakin' tantrum! You are coming off as childish and whiny, with your constant refrains of "I'm not watching" and RTD "hates us". He doesn't! God knows he's done nothing BUT court fans since he took over Who, often to the detriment of good storytelling. If you've decided the show is dead to you, fine, but if so why are you even here commenting anymore?! Go! Your disappearing from fandom and non-viewing of Season 4 will speak far more eloquently then anything else you can say to RTD. All in all though, I have a feeling that it will be you that will be disappointed and not RTD when the ratings for a new Season come in, because if it is half as well written and performed as COE it'll do quite nicely thank you very much.
Will you people who are still rending your clothes and pouring ashes on your head over the death of Ianto (and attendant 'Janto') stop calling yourselves 'the audience' and making out that RTD hates 'the fans'?! You are ONE section of the Torchwood audience/fandom...and contrary to your beliefs you are not the majority. Most of us came to TW as Jack fans from DW and/or as SF fans in general. A great many of us didn't even particularly find Ianto interesting till more recently...and still feel a greater connection to Gwen, Tosh, Owen, even Rhys! We've all of us lost favourite characters in shows we've loved, so get over it! He died well and was mourned. All this stuff, just sounds like a freakin' tantrum! You are coming off as childish and whiny, with your constant refrains of "I'm not watching" and RTD "hates us". He doesn't! God knows he's done nothing BUT court fans since he took over Who, often to the detriment of good storytelling. If you've decided the show is dead to you, fine, but if so why are you even here commenting anymore?! Go! Your disappearing from fandom and non-viewing of Season 4 will speak far more eloquently then anything else you can say to RTD. All in all though, I have a feeling that it will be you that will be disappointed and not RTD when the ratings for a new Season come in, because if it is half as well written and performed as COE it'll do quite nicely thank you very much.
C.S., Massachusetts, USA, on July 28th, 2009
Oh sweet Jesu...enough already! I love Torchwood and the characters there (for the most part, don't get me started about the utter waste Gray was), and frankly all this moaning about Ianto's death is just getting both out of control and deeply annoying. If you don't like the show or find that your reason for it is now gone, here's a thought...Don't Watch! But the way people are carrying on about a death that was appropriate and well done is getting on the verge of pathetic. Ianto passed on. Death happens in shows all the time. It happens in life all the time. He worked an ultra-high risk job that has a track record for their employees passing to the great beyond way before old age is considered. The fact he cheated death as often as he did before this is a miracle in itself. It's time to sit back, Ianto fans, take a deep breath, and remember...this is a television show and on the grand scale of what is important in this world...this surely doesn't even rate in the top fifty.
Oh sweet Jesu...enough already! I love Torchwood and the characters there (for the most part, don't get me started about the utter waste Gray was), and frankly all this moaning about Ianto's death is just getting both out of control and deeply annoying. If you don't like the show or find that your reason for it is now gone, here's a thought...Don't Watch! But the way people are carrying on about a death that was appropriate and well done is getting on the verge of pathetic. Ianto passed on. Death happens in shows all the time. It happens in life all the time. He worked an ultra-high risk job that has a track record for their employees passing to the great beyond way before old age is considered. The fact he cheated death as often as he did before this is a miracle in itself. It's time to sit back, Ianto fans, take a deep breath, and remember...this is a television show and on the grand scale of what is important in this world...this surely doesn't even rate in the top fifty.
Cheryl, Chicago, IL, on July 28th, 2009
I think the thing that irritates me the most is that RTD is being extremely disrespectful of the fan base that got TW where it is today. Of course, he has every right to take it in a different direction...but then he shouldn't be defensive if some of the fans didn't like it. But he really is a disengenuous liar. 9 packets of coffee - uh no. A handful of complainers on the Internet - uh no. I don't bring characters back after I kill them - uh no. I'm not interested in the WonderGwen show or dark, depressing Sci-Fi. Nor am I interested in a restaffed show with hot babes with big guns. Not the TW I know and love. But if it works for you - by all means - enjoy. After all there is a shocking lack of dark Sci-Fi with babe shows catering to the 15 to 30 yr old manchild viewer..not.
I think the thing that irritates me the most is that RTD is being extremely disrespectful of the fan base that got TW where it is today. Of course, he has every right to take it in a different direction...but then he shouldn't be defensive if some of the fans didn't like it. But he really is a disengenuous liar. 9 packets of coffee - uh no. A handful of complainers on the Internet - uh no. I don't bring characters back after I kill them - uh no. I'm not interested in the WonderGwen show or dark, depressing Sci-Fi. Nor am I interested in a restaffed show with hot babes with big guns. Not the TW I know and love. But if it works for you - by all means - enjoy. After all there is a shocking lack of dark Sci-Fi with babe shows catering to the 15 to 30 yr old manchild viewer..not.
Rachel, Manchester, on July 27th, 2009
What Russell should have said is 'people die young in Torchwood unless they're my favourite character Gwen'. He has claimed that killing Ianto was important to the storyline as it made Jack willing to sacrifice his grandson. However, during series 2 they really pushed the idea of an unrequited love between Jack and Gwen and Jack was always supposed to really value and love the fact that Gwen still had a 'normal' life and hadn't let Torchwood affect her to the same extent as the others. Therefore, killing Gwen (especially a pregnant Gwen) should have had the same effect if not more than killing Ianto - plus it would have been more logical for Jack to have taken Gwen with him to face the 456 rather than the coffee boy/admin person. Russell has little sympathy for the fans of Ianto (or Tosh or Owen) simply saying that the deaths must be accepted for the good of the storyline. However, when it comes to his favourites, he is unwilling to sacrifice them for the good of the storyline. Gwen may as well be immortal as, while every other member of Torchwood has been killed (some more than once!), she always comes through unscathed, when she lost Rhys, there was a magic re-set button to bring him back (an idea he has dismissed when it comes to Ianto) and in Doctor Who his favourite Rose was able to come back from a parallel world (which we'd been told was impossible) and was given a clone Doctor to live happily ever after with. The truth is Russell is just as much a fanboy as the people he dismisses. He fiercely protects the lives of his favourite characters and gives them happy-ever-after endings, no matter what would be best for the storyline.
What Russell should have said is 'people die young in Torchwood unless they're my favourite character Gwen'. He has claimed that killing Ianto was important to the storyline as it made Jack willing to sacrifice his grandson. However, during series 2 they really pushed the idea of an unrequited love between Jack and Gwen and Jack was always supposed to really value and love the fact that Gwen still had a 'normal' life and hadn't let Torchwood affect her to the same extent as the others. Therefore, killing Gwen (especially a pregnant Gwen) should have had the same effect if not more than killing Ianto - plus it would have been more logical for Jack to have taken Gwen with him to face the 456 rather than the coffee boy/admin person. Russell has little sympathy for the fans of Ianto (or Tosh or Owen) simply saying that the deaths must be accepted for the good of the storyline. However, when it comes to his favourites, he is unwilling to sacrifice them for the good of the storyline. Gwen may as well be immortal as, while every other member of Torchwood has been killed (some more than once!), she always comes through unscathed, when she lost Rhys, there was a magic re-set button to bring him back (an idea he has dismissed when it comes to Ianto) and in Doctor Who his favourite Rose was able to come back from a parallel world (which we'd been told was impossible) and was given a clone Doctor to live happily ever after with. The truth is Russell is just as much a fanboy as the people he dismisses. He fiercely protects the lives of his favourite characters and gives them happy-ever-after endings, no matter what would be best for the storyline.
Tosh, on July 27th, 2009
Funny is the fact that really few people out of all the commentators everywhere on the net disagree with the critics moved to CoE but RTD keeps talking for them as they were the majority of the online fandom. How pathetic is this? LOL! The (little) man can't deal with constructive criticisms!!! Who is the grown up here?
Funny is the fact that really few people out of all the commentators everywhere on the net disagree with the critics moved to CoE but RTD keeps talking for them as they were the majority of the online fandom. How pathetic is this? LOL! The (little) man can't deal with constructive criticisms!!! Who is the grown up here?
Krazy, on July 27th, 2009
Ianto's death didn't take away from the trauma of me watching Stephen being sacrificed for the other 10% of the world's children. Yet again, I'm not speaking for anyone else other than myself and it seems like the more 'emotional' Janto/Ianto fans are speaking as a small but very irate group. As many Janto/Ianto fans that are upset and not wanting to see the show continue on anymore, with their favorite character and his relationship being continued with Jack, there are even more other Janto/Ianto fans of Torchwood and not just the Torchwood: The Janto Chronicles that some folks have obessed over being the "true canon" of the show. At least you guys are now spending money towards charity and the coffee industry.
Ianto's death didn't take away from the trauma of me watching Stephen being sacrificed for the other 10% of the world's children. Yet again, I'm not speaking for anyone else other than myself and it seems like the more 'emotional' Janto/Ianto fans are speaking as a small but very irate group. As many Janto/Ianto fans that are upset and not wanting to see the show continue on anymore, with their favorite character and his relationship being continued with Jack, there are even more other Janto/Ianto fans of Torchwood and not just the Torchwood: The Janto Chronicles that some folks have obessed over being the "true canon" of the show. At least you guys are now spending money towards charity and the coffee industry.
Kat, Glasgow, on July 27th, 2009
You see the problem, Krazy from NY, is that Stephen was just a redshirt. We weren't given the time to know him nor to become emotionally involved with him. And in fact both characters of Jack's daughter and grandson were introduced, very conveniently, in CoE. With Ianto it's a completely different matter. We, the fans, were already in love with him, we were expecting to know him better, to know what made him tick, and above all we were expecting - because we were told so - to see his "love story" with Jack to evolve and become the centre of the story. Turns out those were all lies. Of course the killing of a child is horrible and the fact that people is upset about Ianto and seem to not give a care about Steven is the evidence that the writers did an incredible huge mistake, they underestimate the importance of a "minor" character like Ianto. Ianto's death literally stole the limelight, if you allow me this analogy, from the shock we were supposed to suffer from the killing of a child. By Day 5 I personally just didn't care anymore about the whole thing. It's not a question of priorities. It's just overkill.
You see the problem, Krazy from NY, is that Stephen was just a redshirt. We weren't given the time to know him nor to become emotionally involved with him. And in fact both characters of Jack's daughter and grandson were introduced, very conveniently, in CoE. With Ianto it's a completely different matter. We, the fans, were already in love with him, we were expecting to know him better, to know what made him tick, and above all we were expecting - because we were told so - to see his "love story" with Jack to evolve and become the centre of the story. Turns out those were all lies. Of course the killing of a child is horrible and the fact that people is upset about Ianto and seem to not give a care about Steven is the evidence that the writers did an incredible huge mistake, they underestimate the importance of a "minor" character like Ianto. Ianto's death literally stole the limelight, if you allow me this analogy, from the shock we were supposed to suffer from the killing of a child. By Day 5 I personally just didn't care anymore about the whole thing. It's not a question of priorities. It's just overkill.
Krazy, New York, on July 27th, 2009
At least money's being donated to charity, but where's the campaign for "In Stephen's Name" for giving up his life to save the "Children of Earth". Priorities people.
At least money's being donated to charity, but where's the campaign for "In Stephen's Name" for giving up his life to save the "Children of Earth". Priorities people.
Laura, Yorkshire, on July 27th, 2009
With Torchwood we're already shown in series 2, I think it is, that people die young, working for Torchwood. This is something established in both seasons. I for one like the fact that he killed Ianto off. It shows how dangerous it is to work for Torchwood and the sacrifices which must be made. And anyway,to me Ianto wasn't even that much of a character, he only really came into his own in this series. I was more gutted about Tosh and Owen, one of them would have been fine but BOTH of them. Ianto wasn't that exiting so I don't understand the backlash.
With Torchwood we're already shown in series 2, I think it is, that people die young, working for Torchwood. This is something established in both seasons. I for one like the fact that he killed Ianto off. It shows how dangerous it is to work for Torchwood and the sacrifices which must be made. And anyway,to me Ianto wasn't even that much of a character, he only really came into his own in this series. I was more gutted about Tosh and Owen, one of them would have been fine but BOTH of them. Ianto wasn't that exiting so I don't understand the backlash.
Ruth, West Yorkshire, on July 27th, 2009
I don't care who thinks that it's pathetic and that we should "get over Ianto's death". The fact is: Torchwood is no longer the show we fell in love with. The number of cast deaths within five episodes is heavy handed, the final episode of CoE was rushed and shoddily written and had more plotholes than a block of swiss cheese, and loyal fans were lied to about what would happen. RTD has killed a lot about Torchwood that a hell of a lot of people liked, and he being arrogant, dismissive and patronising of the fans that made Torchwood as popular as it is. I have no desire to watch series 4 of Torchwood and many, many other share my views. Like it or not, we are not a minority, no matter how much the likes of Russell would like everyone to think. By the way Russell: bringing Ianto back would devalue and cheapen his exit? Two words for you: ROSE TYLER. You, Sir, are a hypocrite.
I don't care who thinks that it's pathetic and that we should "get over Ianto's death". The fact is: Torchwood is no longer the show we fell in love with. The number of cast deaths within five episodes is heavy handed, the final episode of CoE was rushed and shoddily written and had more plotholes than a block of swiss cheese, and loyal fans were lied to about what would happen. RTD has killed a lot about Torchwood that a hell of a lot of people liked, and he being arrogant, dismissive and patronising of the fans that made Torchwood as popular as it is. I have no desire to watch series 4 of Torchwood and many, many other share my views. Like it or not, we are not a minority, no matter how much the likes of Russell would like everyone to think. By the way Russell: bringing Ianto back would devalue and cheapen his exit? Two words for you: ROSE TYLER. You, Sir, are a hypocrite.
Elly, Warks, on July 27th, 2009
It's not likely that Martha will be returning to TW, for the same reason she couldn't be in Children of Earth, she's now a regular in the UK version of 'Law and Order' for a rival channel.
It's not likely that Martha will be returning to TW, for the same reason she couldn't be in Children of Earth, she's now a regular in the UK version of 'Law and Order' for a rival channel.
Mary, Boston, on July 27th, 2009
Don't count ratings numbers as endorsement. I'm among the millions in the US who watched each episode of the mini-series hoping it would get better and was going somewhere other than an opportunity for government-bashing or perhaps the writer's egotistical view that he was producing some great Greek tragedy, which it was not.. I was extremely disappointed because I thought it was poorly done, poorly written. I didn't watch season 1 and only some of some of season 2 of Torchwood so I didn't have the emotional investment in any of the characters expect perhaps Captain Jack. I was watching the mini-series more as a stand-alone and it certainly didn't want to make me see any more of Torchwood and certainly not anything that this particular writer might do. Ridiculous! It didn't hang together logically as a sci-fi story for me – and only about a minute and a half on actually finding a way to get rid of the alien. Everything else just seemed like some gratuitous ego trip for the writers or actors - give them a chance do a death scene, perhaps, and I wasn't impressed with Ianto's compared the one of Tosh and Owen. It looked like there might be some good interpersonal relationships that could be developed further – Jack and his daughter, for example. But at the end of the mini-series, all I could think was what a colossal waste of time I had spent!
Don't count ratings numbers as endorsement. I'm among the millions in the US who watched each episode of the mini-series hoping it would get better and was going somewhere other than an opportunity for government-bashing or perhaps the writer's egotistical view that he was producing some great Greek tragedy, which it was not.. I was extremely disappointed because I thought it was poorly done, poorly written. I didn't watch season 1 and only some of some of season 2 of Torchwood so I didn't have the emotional investment in any of the characters expect perhaps Captain Jack. I was watching the mini-series more as a stand-alone and it certainly didn't want to make me see any more of Torchwood and certainly not anything that this particular writer might do. Ridiculous! It didn't hang together logically as a sci-fi story for me – and only about a minute and a half on actually finding a way to get rid of the alien. Everything else just seemed like some gratuitous ego trip for the writers or actors - give them a chance do a death scene, perhaps, and I wasn't impressed with Ianto's compared the one of Tosh and Owen. It looked like there might be some good interpersonal relationships that could be developed further – Jack and his daughter, for example. But at the end of the mini-series, all I could think was what a colossal waste of time I had spent!
Teresa, UK, on July 27th, 2009
In response to the person who said they didn't get the idea of investing in characters, i think the original poster was talking about emotionally investing (caring) and not about investing their time. I know its just fiction but writers do deliberatley try to make viewers care about what happens to characters as this is what makes a lot of people consistantly tune in day after day, week after week (soaps being a prime example of this) and for Torchwood is also what generates the merchandise sales. I would have thought that it would be a bit of a hard sell to try to get viewers to care about any of the characters in Torchwood in the future as we've now been told they are already pretty much guaranteed to the be dead soon anyway. Some people may just look at that as a premise and decide not to bother.
In response to the person who said they didn't get the idea of investing in characters, i think the original poster was talking about emotionally investing (caring) and not about investing their time. I know its just fiction but writers do deliberatley try to make viewers care about what happens to characters as this is what makes a lot of people consistantly tune in day after day, week after week (soaps being a prime example of this) and for Torchwood is also what generates the merchandise sales. I would have thought that it would be a bit of a hard sell to try to get viewers to care about any of the characters in Torchwood in the future as we've now been told they are already pretty much guaranteed to the be dead soon anyway. Some people may just look at that as a premise and decide not to bother.
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Well ...just like in real life the brown stuff hits the swirly thing....ppl get killed off in Torchwood and yes it is a shock, i hate the spoilers i'd rather be stunned watching it happen rather then catch a glimpse of it in the news paper....yes my fave person got killed off (Owen).....but people who say i'm no longer watching the show coz Ianto...bought the farm are in some way missing the point of what it means to be a member of Torchwood...at least the Ianto fans should be thankful that He had a Wonderful exit .....a goodbye my love love scene type of exit .......Tosh bled to death on the floor......Owen was Vaporised......It's the shock factor of Torchwood that makes it Interesting.....So raise a glass to season 4 .....At least give it a chance....Torchwood needs you ....don't turn your back on it